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Was the finishing grid always ordered by constructor?


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#1 1player

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 18:07

I've been noticing more and more often the racing grid that is grouped by constructor: RB in P1 and P2, then Mercedes, then Ferrari, etc. Which leads me to believe that personal driving skill is not as important nowadays, but only how good and how much money a team has, and that alone decides the final results, with few exceptions to the rule due to chance.

 

Has this ever been the case in the history of F1, or is it a relatively new phenomenon?



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#2 SenorSjon

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 18:31

Watch older footage and you see teams lining up in order on the grid quite often.

#3 SilverArrow31

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 18:33

Its always been more about the car than driver.. throught all of f1 history the grids have shown that.

Alfa Romeo lined up 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the first ever Formula 1 race and took all 3 podium positions in the race. .. not that much has changed since 1950.

Edited by SilverArrow31, 19 March 2023 - 18:37.


#4 Goron3

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 18:35

To mix the order up, you need more variables. Reliability, more pit stops, more tyre manufacturers etc.

#5 LolaB0860

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 18:36

Car is always more important than the driver and that how it should be, it's not a spec or BoP series


Edited by LolaB0860, 19 March 2023 - 18:37.


#6 RPM40

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 18:37

While car is playing a big role, I do actually notice in this new era the cars lining up in the Noah’s Arc formation more often.

I suspect it’s due to the limitations the tyres place on the driver, that they tend to fall roughly in like with the cars tyre management ability

#7 PayasYouRace

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 18:39

There’s a lot less difference between drivers nowadays too. All are super fit, super well prepared, and have access to data to improve their performance and minimise their weaknesses.

#8 TomNokoe

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 19:42

Because the drivers are no longer actively driving the cars, but instead managing their respective limitations. At these super low-deg tracks it always becomes more apparent. I expect Melbourne to be the same.

#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 19:45

Because the drivers are no longer actively driving the cars, but instead managing their respective limitations. At these super low-deg tracks it always becomes more apparent. I expect Melbourne to be the same.

 

That's basically how they drove from the beginning of time, apart from the period of about 2002 to 2008.



#10 RacingFan10

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 19:45

Its been more or less like that since the late 90s or early 00s



#11 pacificquay

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 20:03

Its been more or less like that since the late 90s or early 00s

It’s more or less been like that since people starting racing cars



#12 Ruudbackus

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 20:14

Car determines 90% of the result. And only a few exceptional drivers can outperform it once in a while (Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen of the current grid) and end up a bit higher then expected. Only real exception can be rain hit races or qualifications that shake up the field. Mercedes has had 54 1-2 finishes in the 2014-2021 seasons. In this new regulatiosn era Redbull so far has 8. Ferrari had 23 in the Scumacher champiosnhop years.  



#13 RacingFan10

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 22:00

It’s more or less been like that since people starting racing cars

 

Drivers used to matter a lot more in "ancient" F1 times, 80s and earlier



#14 Cornholio

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 02:20

Go look up the 1996 Portuguese GP. Aside from Schumacher (+1) and Diniz (-2) the starting grid was in perfect team formation. It's nothing new. At all.

#15 Sterzo

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 11:51

It's car racing. Competition to show which car is quickest. Next...



#16 pdac

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:57

Commentators, pundits and the press like to make out it's a competition amongst drivers and focus on the WDC. But F1 is a competition to make the best car. Drivers make a difference when there are big differences between the skills of each driver. But all F1 drivers are highly competent now and, whilst there are one or two that are a cut above the rest, the difference between the drivers is not enough (most of the time) to overcome the difference between the cars.


Edited by pdac, 20 March 2023 - 21:58.


#17 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 22:06

It's car racing. Competition to show which car is quickest. Next...

 

Unfortunately, this sort of racing - I describe it as 'tech racing' - only exists in F1 anymore.

 

All the rest of racing* globally is either A) spec-racing (this includes glorified spec racing) or B) BoP-racing. In both of these car is secondary in importance and it's mostly just drivers and teams

 

* apart from some obscure club series no-one has ever heard of



#18 balmybaldwin

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 22:23

If it's not 2 by 2 then at least one of your drivers is under performing



#19 Primo

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 22:25

While car is playing a big role, I do actually notice in this new era the cars lining up in the Noah’s Arc formation more often.

I suspect it’s due to the limitations the tyres place on the driver, that they tend to fall roughly in like with the cars tyre management ability

Everything is more professional nowadays. They all have personal trainers, dietists, simulators, driver coaches, racing towels, apex hairdo's, high performance pedicure etcetera. The difference between champion and mediocre is smaller than ever before. 



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#20 Anderis

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 22:27

Fun fact: in 2009, only on 3 occasions did the first 2 places in qualifying go to the same team, and it was a different team on all 3 occasions.

 

It seems every era has those seasons where the pecking order is a little more fluid and drivers can make a difference of several palces to their team mates as well as those where the pecking order is more established and we see the same thing in every race, though I would bet as the time goes on, there's more of the latter and less of the former in general as the teams operate closer to the levels of what's achieveable and big performance breakthroughs are more difficult.



#21 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 07:07

Go look up the 1996 Portuguese GP. Aside from Schumacher (+1) and Diniz (-2) the starting grid was in perfect team formation. It's nothing new. At all.


Funny how Schumacher gets credit for being +1 but not Panis for being +2.

#22 Clrnc

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 07:23

Funny how Schumacher gets credit for being +1 but not Panis for being +2.

Hahaha good point