69 replies to this topic

[fasteR]

According to wikipedia, he has won 11 WCC and 12 WDC. I'm pretty sure he is the current GOAT of the paddock but what about past paddocks? Has any (senior) team members won more championships than Adrian Newey?

Edited by fasteR, 20 March 2023 - 14:22.

[George Costanza]

The answer is no.

[fasteR]

The answer is no.

Thanks i couldn't find that info anywhere! 

[IrvTheSwerve]

I wonder what F1 employee (i.e. anyone employed by an F1 team...Engineer, cleaner, truckie, etc...) has won the most WCCs...

[skinnyman]

I wonder what F1 employee (i.e. anyone employed by an F1 team...Engineer, cleaner, truckie, etc...) has won the most WCCs...

Maybe a cleaning lady who has worked in Brackley and Milton Keynes at the right times, maybe even in Enstone as she was younger.

[Run]

James Allison ?
Benetton, 1 WCC & 2 WDC titles
Ferrari, 6 & 5 titles
Renault, 1 & 2 titles
Mercedes, 4 & 4 titles.

[skinnyman]

Great cleaner that Allison lady.

 

(Renault is 2 and 2 btw)

[skinnyman]

Aldo Costa might have even more.

[Blackjack1967]

In term of GP wins:

 

Senna + Schumacher + Alonso + Hamilton = 267

 

Adrian Newey = 197 and counting  (+1 per week / 2 weeks actualy)

[Leibowitz]

Newey is going to overtake Ferrari somewhere around 2026 I’d assume.

[YoungGun]

Aldo Costa might have even more.

 

Some might argue that without Costa, as being the reason why Mercedes doesn't have the best car on the grid. 

Edited by YoungGun, 20 March 2023 - 16:23.

[Run]

Costa:
Ferrari, 7&6
Mercedes, 6&6.
So 13&12.

Allison, 13&13.

Not that bad.

[skinnyman]

Costa:
Ferrari, 7&6
Mercedes, 6&6.
So 13&12.

Allison, 13&13.

Not that bad.

Costa 14 and 12 (you are missing either 1999 or 2008 WCC)

Allison was in a lesser/different roles so 1994, 1995 and 2017 cars are not „his“, but still important part of the teams of course.

Edited by skinnyman, 20 March 2023 - 17:23.

[Run]

Thanks, you right, I forgot, 2008...

 

[dweller23]

Williams/Head duo had 16 I believe.

[F1matt]

Williams/Head duo had 16 I believe.

 

7 drivers titles Jones, Rosberg, Piquet, Mansell, Prost, Hill, and Villeneuve.

 

9 Constructors titles all of the years above (excluding 1982) plus 1981, 1986, and 1994.  

 

1992 to 1997 was probably designed by Adrian Newey though!

[George Costanza]

7 drivers titles Jones, Rosberg, Piquet, Mansell, Prost, Hill, and Villeneuve.

9 Constructors titles all of the years above (excluding 1982) plus 1981, 1986, and 1994.

1992 to 1997 was probably designed by Adrian Newey though!

Adrian was there in 1991-1996.

[PlatenGlass]

I wonder what F1 employee (i.e. anyone employed by an F1 team...Engineer, cleaner, truckie, etc...) has won the most WCCs...

 

Well, it could depend how we define it. Newey presumably counts for 1997 because he designed the Williams used that year, but was actually at McLaren that year. What about a cleaner who worked at Ferrari in 1950 and whose cleaning practices (analagous to a car design) continue to this day at the team? Would they get all the titles for the team?

[PayasYouRace]

Adrian was there in 1991-1996.

 

Yeah but he was responsible for the design of the 1997 car, the FW19.

 

In fact, he joined Williams in 1990. The FW14 was his first car for the team.

[Beri]

Lauda won

2 drivers titles at Ferrari
3 constructors titles at Ferrari
1 drivers title at McLaren
2 constructors titles at McLaren
5 drivers titles at Mercedes
5 constructors titles at Mercedes

18 titles isn't too shabby either.

[as65p]

Okay, this is really turning from "who won the most" into "who was around team X when it won".

 

I imagine Lauda being the first to call the idea he personally "won" something at Mercedes complete bollocks.

[Beri]

Lauda was an integral part of the Mercedes team on the management side and personally has dragged Hamilton over the line to join.
Frank Williams was named before too, rightfully, but that means Lauda should too.

[as65p]

Lauda was an integral part of the Mercedes team on the management side and personally has dragged Hamilton over the line to join.
Frank Williams was named before too, rightfully, but that means Lauda should too.

Well,if you make no distinction between owning a team and a advisery role, okay.

[PayasYouRace]

Okay, this is really turning from "who won the most" into "who was around team X when it won".

 

I imagine Lauda being the first to call the idea he personally "won" something at Mercedes complete bollocks.

 

Win as a team, lose as a team. Every member of the team contributes to their success.

[Beri]

Lauda was part team owner and no advisor alone.

[MaxisOne]

The ones that stand out for me are Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. Very different approaches with Adrian being the guy with the actual knowledge  of how to make a car go fast no matter what the rulebook says. and Ross being able to get the right people in place to work together to make a car go fast; in other words .. a great manager. Allison .. while also pretty decent strikes me as the right place at the right time kinda guy. Maybe im being a bit harsh on him but i dont recall seeing him take a team and build it towards a championship. With the hybrid Era Merc was the house that Ross built in my eyes. recruiting all those TD's and putting them in places where they would shine. Special mention to Aldo Costa who was bitter about being dumped by the reds. Ross knew the potential that Ferrari discarded.  

 

Back to Adrian. Studies the rulebook... directs the overall concept and is clearly hands on. The man walks around the paddock with his notebook at the ready to learn something whether its from a back marker team or the cars at the very front. Always willing to learn, I strongly dislike the team he works for but i adore his cars. He is legendary in my view.  

Edited by MaxisOne, 20 March 2023 - 21:20.

[Sterzo]

Okay, this is really turning from "who won the most" into "who was around team X when it won".

 

I imagine Lauda being the first to call the idea he personally "won" something at Mercedes complete bollocks.

I think the concept is "who was involved in the most championship wins." After all, Newey didn't "win" a single one himself. He hasn't been given a pot at the FIA annual prizegiving. Nor does he claim sole credit for the Williams cars; he says in his book he was responsible for the aero, but Patrick Head managed the mechanical design.

[PlatenGlass]

Lauda won

2 drivers titles at Ferrari
3 constructors titles at Ferrari
1 drivers title at McLaren
2 constructors titles at McLaren
5 drivers titles at Mercedes
5 constructors titles at Mercedes

18 titles isn't too shabby either.

Can't we give him Prost's 1985 title at McLaren as well as he was at the team?

[as65p]

Win as a team, lose as a team. Every member of the team contributes to their success.

Ah, you old romantic...

 

No, I don't see it that way.  I mean really... you know there are members in every team who, if replaced at any time, would make no difference to that teams fortunes or results.

 

I don't begrudge those team members their part of the glory, but we started off the thread about Adrian Newey, who is at the opposite end, a key ingredient for any team he worked for.

[as65p]

Can't we give him Prost's 1985 title at McLaren as well as he was at the team?

 

   

[Beri]

Can't we give him Prost's 1985 title at McLaren as well as he was at the team?

It wasn't his achievement now was it? At Mercedes he was part team owner where he has had an integral part in the hiring of key employees like Hamilton. Disregarding Lauda, means you should disregard any team boss. And the question was whether anyone on the paddock has won more than Newey. Lauda was part of said paddock and can't be excluded in my opinion.

[LewisMacca]

As soon as these regulations were being discussed you just knew he had ideas running around in his mind, teams arnt a couple of years behind they are probably more like 5 years behind.

[PlatenGlass]

Barrichello has 12 - 6 doubles in 2000-4, 2009.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Well, it could depend how we define it. Newey presumably counts for 1997 because he designed the Williams used that year, but was actually at McLaren that year. What about a cleaner who worked at Ferrari in 1950 and whose cleaning practices (analagous to a car design) continue to this day at the team? Would they get all the titles for the team?

I would define it as being employed by the team at the time of them winning the championship…regardless of their input. If they left good practices or engineered a good car, left the team and then that team won the championship, it shouldn’t count IMO. It’s hard to define it otherwise. I agree it’s slightly harder if we’re talking about someone with more input to the speed of the car rather than (e.g.) administrative or cleaning roles however.

[Clrnc]

We should just count who designed the most winning car. The rest is too vague

[Laptom]

Was there any designer longer in the F1 world than Newey?

[PayasYouRace]

We should just count who designed the most winning car. The rest is too vague

That’s already a fairly big team of people. The guy who designed the suspension attachment bracket, or the steering column bearing, or the bargeboard all have credit in designing the car.

[DogEarred]

Just an aside that might amuse you.

I have worked, on a contract basis, for 10 different F1 teams, in their different forms.

I have never worked on a current car that has won a race, let alone a World Championship.

That’s MY Proud Record…

[se7en_24]

Contract cleaner? 

[IrvTheSwerve]

Just an aside that might amuse you.

I have worked, on a contract basis, for 10 different F1 teams, in their different forms.

I have never worked on a current car that has won a race, let alone a World Championship.

That’s MY Proud Record…

 

Fancy a contract with RedBull, starting next week? 

[fasteR]

Well, it seems it's tight between Costa and Allison depending on how much championships are attributed to them.  Next season will be interesting...we'll have a trio fighting for the GOAT title with Newey joining those two if Red Bull keeps its domination this season (95% probability for me).

[Hrco42]

 

No, I don't see it that way.  I mean really... you know there are members in every team who, if replaced at any time, would make no difference to that teams fortunes or results.

 

So like Lewis Hamilton in Mercedes from 2014-2020

[Ruusperi]

What about test drivers? Luca Badoer was obviously the mastermind behind the success of Ferrari ( ), so from 1998 to 2010 that's 6+8 championships brought by him.

 

And you could say that Bernie owned F1, so every championship since 1978(?) until 2017 was his doing - from a certain point of view.

[kumo7]

According to wikipedia, he has won 11 WCC and 12 WDC. I'm pretty sure he is the current GOAT of the paddock but what about past paddocks? Has any (senior) team members won more championships than Adrian Newey?

Per definition I cannot agree that Newey won the Drivers Title not even once…

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Newey is going to overtake Ferrari somewhere around 2026 I’d assume.

Let’s wait and see… that’s nearly 3 years away…

[Sebastien007]

I remember that Alonso was also saying when he was at ferrari, it was him against Newey and not Vettel.

[LegendInTheMaking]

A shout-out for Tad Czapski, the electronics-wizard of the 90's and 00's. He was lured into F1 by Tom Walkingshaw as he was strengthening the electronics capabilities of the team in the era of active suspension, automatic transmissions, ABS and traction control. These were banned after 1993, but infamously Benetton still had the launch control as a hidden "option 13" for 1994. At Benetton, Czapski's laptop and Schumacher's car (and only Schumacher's...) were inseperable on the grid before the start of races. The result: two titles in 1994 and 1995.

 

Czapski was part of the Benetton team that left for Ferrari in 1996. The opposition of the Newey-Renault / Newey-Mercedes combo's proved too much in the following years despite brave battles and again - link - rumours of illegal traction control. After finaly achieving their goal of the WDC/WCC in 2000, Czapski went back to Benetton where he masterminded the launch control -now legalized- of the Renault's in which Alonso took his two titles. 

 

At the end of 2009 he partnered once again with Ross Brawn, joining Mercedes for the following season. I can't find how long he stayed with them and whether he had any involvement in their string of titles from 2014. His Benetton / Ferrari / Renault successes add up to 5 WDC's and 5 WCC's. 

[PlatenGlass]

What about people who worked for the tyre companies / brake companies etc.?

[Claudius]

I don't think the question is that complicated.

Newey has been in charge of aerodaynamics since early 90s. And he's won many WCC titles and "his" cars have won numerous WDC´s. He reults should be compared to others with similair positions in other teams.

[PlatenGlass]

I think David Coulthard still works for Red Bull in some capacity http://www.davidcoul...k/red-bull.html so he has 2 titles in 1993 (test driver for Williams), 1 in 1994, 2 in 1998, 1 in 1999, then 8 from 2010-2013, 1 in 2021 and 2 in 2022. That makes 17. Always overlooked in lists of greatest drivers for some reason though.