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FIA launches tender for F1 tyre supplier from 2025


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#1 AustinF1

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:43

FIA launches tender for F1 tyre supplier from 2025  https://www.motorspo...yres-from-2025/

 

Please, please, PLEASE let it be Michelin...



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#2 eibyyz

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:48

Hoosier!



#3 Beri

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:48

Nice new profile picture by the way AustinF1.

On the subject;

The FIA has officially launched the Invitation of Tender for the Single Supply of race tyres for the Formula 1 World Championship from the 2025 season.


*Insert sad emoji here*

I kinda hoped the FIA dared to spice things up. Sadly they don't.

#4 FNG

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:50

Nice new profile picture by the way AustinF1.

On the subject;

*Insert sad emoji here*

I kinda hoped the FIA dared to spice things up. Sadly they don't.

 

Hell no. Last thing you want are multiple tire manufacturers. A better tire can negate engine, aero and chassis all in one go. Single tire manufacturer only please



#5 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:53

Hell no. Last thing you want are multiple tire manufacturers. A better tire can negate engine, aero and chassis all in one go. Single tire manufacturer only please

 

100% disagree

 

Immediately lost interest and stopped reading once it said single supply, who cares

 

I mean even if Michelin comes what does it matter, they'd probably be ordered to build some crap show tires anyway to make it 'exciting'

 

I remember when Dunlop-Michelin tire war still existed in LMP2 and Dunlop was saying how much they love how to still have open competition. Then when ACO suddenly decided to standardize everything that was left and hand supply contract to Dunlop (rebranded as Goodyear), well Dunlop started bragging how proud they are to be the supplier and how challenging it will be... lol


Edited by LolaB0860, 20 March 2023 - 20:56.


#6 Beri

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:53

Hell no. Last thing you want are multiple tire manufacturers. A better tire can negate engine, aero and chassis all in one go. Single tire manufacturer only please


I agree with all you are saying. yet I did enjoy the tyre war between Bridgestone and Michelin. I liked how teams could tip to the right end of the scale simply by having the right tyre. Or completely fail in front of the world completely. Like at Indianapolis. I did like that. But I seem to be the only one liking that 😉

#7 ANF

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:54

pirelli-yuste.jpg



#8 JL14

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:58

FIA launches tender for F1 tyre supplier from 2025  https://www.motorspo...yres-from-2025/

 

Please, please, PLEASE let it be Michelin...

 

Michelin can't even keep up with MotoGP's aero demands on their tires, let alone F1's year-on-year progress 



#9 AustinF1

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 20:59

100% disagree

 

Immediately lost interest and stopped reading once it said single supply, who cares

 

I mean even if Michelin comes what does it matter, they'd probably be ordered to build some crap show tires anyway to make it 'exciting'

 

I remember when Dunlop-Michelin tire war still existed in LMP2 and Dunlop was saying how much they love how to still have open competition. Then when ACO suddenly decided to standardize everything that was left and hand supply contract to Dunlop (rebranded as Goodyear), well Dunlop started bragging how proud they are to be the supplier and how challenging it will be... lol

Which is precisely why I'm guessing they'd have no interest. They probably would if there was competition with another tire manufacturer, but that's not happening.



#10 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:00

Michelin can't even keep up with MotoGP's aero demands on their tires, let alone F1's year-on-year progress 

 

Yet their LMP1, LMP2 and GTE tires were amazing (before all went boring spec)



#11 Muppetmad

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:01

Hopefully a supplier is chosen who can actually construct an extreme wet tyre.



#12 ARTGP

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:02

The Japanese Super GT racing series still has a tire war. 

 

How the spirit of Formula 1's tyre war lives on in Super GT (motorsport.com)


Edited by ARTGP, 20 March 2023 - 21:02.


#13 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:04

Which is precisely why I'm guessing they'd have no interest. They probably would if there was competition with another tire manufacturer, but that's not happening.

 

I think so yes

 

Curiously just like in the last couple of years, they only have two cars in Super GT500 against 10 Bridgestones, 2 Yokohamas and 1 Dunlop. And one in GT300 against 4 Bridgestones, 16 Yokohamas and 6 Dunlops


Edited by LolaB0860, 20 March 2023 - 21:06.


#14 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:06

The Japanese Super GT racing series still has a tire war. 

 

How the spirit of Formula 1's tyre war lives on in Super GT (motorsport.com)

 

Yeah that and some others but not many sadly

 

https://forums.autos...t/#entry9949575



#15 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:14

Hopefully a supplier is chosen who can actually construct an extreme wet tyre.

 

Well TBH that might be the ONLY area where it matters even a little who the supplier is. Because if it's someone terrible like Continental/Hoosier or Pirelli or whoever, they don't care, but if it's Michelin or someone like that they might at least try to not make themselves look like clowns (see Petit Le Mans 2015)

 

However I still think it's ultimately F1/FIA that dictates what is run, and if they don't order and pay for monsoon tires... well... you probably don't get them. General build quality ain't gonna move mountains


Edited by LolaB0860, 20 March 2023 - 21:17.


#16 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:20

Remember when Bridgestone rocked up in 1997… if any of the top teams had taken a punt on those tyres they’d have walked the championship. Jordan would probably have won the championship if they’d used them.

#17 ARTGP

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:21

 (see Petit Le Mans 2015)

 

Hey! That gave us a historical moment  :rotfl:


Edited by ARTGP, 20 March 2023 - 21:21.


#18 TecnoRacing

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:25

Michelin can't even keep up with MotoGP's aero demands on their tires, let alone F1's year-on-year progress 

Nonsense, Michelin are on balance the best racing tire company in the world. They would destroy Pirelli in an open F1 tire war...



#19 AustinF1

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:27

Nonsense, Michelin are on balance the best racing tire company in the world. They would destroy Pirelli in an open F1 tire war...

Yep. Just as they do with their road tires (in my experience, at least). Pirellis are trash. All hat, no cattle.



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#20 Calum

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:29

Did a quick read up there and have to say, Petit Le Mans 2015 sounded incredible.

GT cars on Michelin rubber beating (embarrassing!) Sportscar Prototypes.

Edited by Calum, 20 March 2023 - 21:31.


#21 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:30

Remember when Bridgestone rocked up in 1997… if any of the top teams had taken a punt on those tyres they’d have walked the championship. Jordan would probably have won the championship if they’d used them.

 

People are moaning how Red Bull (prev Merc) is dominating and how no-one can catch them, particularly under budget cap where you are limited in many areas and when there is no testing allowed. On top of that, you have more and more underlying spec parts that supposedly help balancing teams, but in reality only make it more difficult as there's less chance to catch up when you are behind. And the big teams are then just prioritizing and budget-allocating to the parts they can still do themselves anyway

 

All in all, if tire war was still allowed, it would be another factor in performance altogether. Ferrari with Bridgestones might have a bit more chance of catching Red Bull with Dunlops, or McLaren running Yokohamas could have more of a word against Renault running Michelins. I mean the cliche argument is that you don't want external factors making the difference too much but many of these already have customer engines and whatnot. And even if they didn't who cares, it's not a spec series


Edited by LolaB0860, 20 March 2023 - 21:42.


#22 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:35

Did a quick read up there and have to say, Petit Le Mans 2015 sounded incredible.

GT cars on Michelin rubber beating (embarrassing!) Sportscar Prototypes.

 

Along the Michelin-runners was also the Falken Tires Porsche, which had won some great wet-weather races against Michelins in the earlier years, even though Falkens in the dry usually weren't that great. But it showed how tire engineering actually mattered in different conditions and wasn't just a PR gimmick


Edited by LolaB0860, 20 March 2023 - 21:36.


#23 Sterzo

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:43

Yep. Just as they do with their road tires (in my experience, at least). Pirellis are trash. All hat, no cattle.

For a decade or three I swore by Michelins, then bought a car that happened to have Pirellis and have been agreeably surprised. Maybe, as in other areas of road car engineering, there's been convergence and you can't tell  much difference.



#24 Otaku

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 21:57

It doesn't matter 1 bit who the tyre supplier is if the tyres are made to a required spec.



#25 pdac

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 22:12

Why not have different suppliers for each compound being used. So the 'softs' are done by one supplier, then 'mediums' another, etc. Each team would have to use tyres from more than one supplier.



#26 JHSingo

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 22:19

Michelin can't even keep up with MotoGP's aero demands on their tires, let alone F1's year-on-year progress 

 

Well, bikes aren't supposed to have that stupid aero anyway. There's quite an easy solution available to MotoGP, get rid of the lot, and stop trying to let MotoGP morph into two-wheeled F1...  :mad:

 

Sorry, I'm in the wrong thread for this particular rant, aren't I?  :lol:



#27 LolaB0860

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 22:20

Why not have different suppliers for each compound being used. So the 'softs' are done by one supplier, then 'mediums' another, etc. Each team would have to use tyres from more than one supplier.

 

No, that wouldn't (really) be tire companies going against each other but instead more gimmicks than anything.

 

Also it would be impossible to police, who's going to supervise that Dunlop really sticks to the "idea" of medium or Bridgestone to the "idea" of hard.

 

Finally there would be zero confidentiality which is what these manufacturers would want



#28 uzsjgb

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 08:18

It doesn't matter 1 bit who the tyre supplier is if the tyres are made to a required spec.

 

This is the best thing said in this thread.

 

Pirelli builds tires according to the demands of Formula One, a specific degradation is required. Any other supplier cannot just build the tires they want, they also have to build the tires Formula One wants.

 

About tire wars: it would be terrible if the best driver in the best car loses only because he is using the wrong tire manufacturer.



#29 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 08:35

Hopefully a supplier is chosen who can actually construct an extreme wet tyre.


That’s not going to help. It’s the spray, not the lack of grip, that has been preventing extreme wet running in recent years.

#30 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 08:36



About tire wars: it would be terrible if the best driver in the best car loses only because he is using the wrong tire manufacturer.


The best car has the right tyres on.

#31 Viryfan

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 08:43

I can see Goodyear going for it.

#32 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 08:44

As has been said, it doesn’t matter whether it’s Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone, etc…they will be told to build tyres to a spec with particular characteristics.

 

The criticism Pirelli has had over the years (cheese tyres, etc.) has been most unfair. They’ve developed tyres that F1 has wanted. It wouldn’t surprise me if Pirelli think ‘to hell with this’ and leave.



#33 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 08:57

Tyre wars are dumb.
By far the biggest performance differentiator outside the team control.
Game on or game over without any change on their end.

Why would someone want that?

#34 Astandahl

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 09:09

Nothing can be worse than Pirelli.



#35 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 09:18

Nothing can be worse than Pirelli.

Case in point, lol.



#36 DevilDare

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 09:42

It's 2023 and people still believe that Pirelli cannot make good tyres if they needed to.


Edited by DevilDare, 21 March 2023 - 09:42.


#37 Kulturen

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 09:43

Tyre wars are dumb.
By far the biggest performance differentiator outside the team control.
Game on or game over without any change on their end.

Why would someone want that?

 

The best example of how tyre wars are a terrible idea is MotoGP before bridgestone left. It got to the point where there "michellin tracks" and "bridgestone tracks" and if you were on the wrong tyre for the track, you were pretty much out of the race. Not even going to mention the special overnight tyres etc.

 

The only way you could have a tyre war and also have it be "fair" on track, would be if teams were not allowed to test the tyres beforehand and design the cars for them and then the tyres would be on a "market" where any team at any point in the season could change supplier. That way the manufacturers could compete but not form exclusive relationships with teams or design tyres for specific cars.

 

But overall I'm sorry, anyone who claims to want tyre wars is either very naive or very unaware of motorsport history.



#38 LolaB0860

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 09:46

It's 2023 and people still believe that Pirelli cannot make good tyres if they needed to.


I admit that I still just remember the horrible crap tires they produced for Aston Martin against Corvette's Michelins in ALMS way back. But that was millenia ago

#39 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 09:53

The best example of how tyre wars are a terrible idea is MotoGP before bridgestone left. It got to the point where there "michellin tracks" and "bridgestone tracks" and if you were on the wrong tyre for the track, you were pretty much out of the race. Not even going to mention the special overnight tyres etc.

 

The only way you could have a tyre war and also have it be "fair" on track, would be if teams were not allowed to test the tyres beforehand and design the cars for them and then the tyres would be on a "market" where any team at any point in the season could change supplier. That way the manufacturers could compete but not form exclusive relationships with teams or design tyres for specific cars.

 

But overall I'm sorry, anyone who claims to want tyre wars is either very naive or very unaware of motorsport history.

 

My memory is a bit fuzzy but didn't we have this in the early-mid 00s with Bridgestone vs Michelin in F1 too, where we had 'Bridgestone tracks' and 'Michelin tracks'? 

 

It was kind of nice as you would have different teams at the top at different tracks, but it did feel a bit artificial in that the car/engine mattered much less. Personally I'm happy with 1 tyre supplier.



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#40 LolaB0860

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 10:01

About tire wars: it would be terrible if the best driver in the best car loses only because he is using the wrong tire manufacturer.


"The best driver" can already be driving for the worst team and vice versa.

What people are also forgetting that the teams can co-develop the tires with the tire constructor or have specific type for them. See confidential Michelins they used to have in LMP1 and GTE. So Williams and McLaren might not actually have the same exact compound of supplier X and Red Bull and Haas not the same specification of supplier Y.

#41 Kulturen

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 10:04

Yes and the rich get richer. How will this somehow make things better? We have literally seen the results of this again and again and it's never good.

 

Also F1 is supposed to be a competition of car manufacturers not tyre manufacturers. Do you watch motorsports to see who the best tyre manufacturer is?


Edited by Kulturen, 21 March 2023 - 10:05.


#42 noikeee

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 10:14

"The best driver" can already be driving for the worst team and vice versa.

What people are also forgetting that the teams can co-develop the tires with the tire constructor or have specific type for them. See confidential Michelins they used to have in LMP1 and GTE. So Williams and McLaren might not actually have the same exact compound of supplier X and Red Bull and Haas not the same specification of supplier Y.

 

 

Which is awful as then a team has a better tyre than everyone else, and/or their car better in tune with the tyre than the other cars.



#43 Kulturen

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 10:17

Oh and guess which teams are going to get the best tyres. Hell, in MotoGP one RIDER was getting the best tyres back in the day  :lol:



#44 absinthedude

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 12:07

All this frankly childish criticism of Pirelli, who are making the F1 tyres to perform in manners prescribed by the FIA. The tyre contract is a poisoned chalice. It's hardly worth advertising that the race and WDC winner drove on Pirelli tyres, because there's only one tyre permitted. And it leaves whoever supplies the tyres open to criticism. 

 

Regarding tyre wars, the big issue is money really. I don't understand for one moment what's wrong with having a tyre which works great at one circuit and is uncompetitive at another....as long as they're safe. The other issue was one manufacturer making bespoke tyres for one team's cars, even suiting their lead driver...to the detriment of every other competitor. That could be mitigated by rules. 

 

By all the gods people, you complain that F1 is boring with the same team winning everything....then complain that introducing two or more tyre manufacturers might make it difficult for a car to win at every circuit. And I can just imagine Horner crying, "Waaaaa...it wasn't fair at Spa this weekend! Our Avon tyres didn't work as well as Aston's Engelberts and they won! Waaaaaaa!"



#45 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 16:22

There's no issue with short life tyres. Drivers love qualifying tyres that bearly last a lap. The reason Pirelli tyres have been bad isn't that have delivered a short life tyre but their manufacturing method produced tyres that are way too thermally sensitive. They have to be babied every corner or they immediately overheat.

Also; tyre wars are a myth. Beidgestone vs Michelin was an aboration. For nearly every F1 season one tyre brand was outright superior to the rest and anyone on them were relegated to also-rans.

#46 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 16:44

Why don’t we have one manufacturer make ‘good’ tyres and then another who makes the bad ones. At each race, they hold a draw and 5 teams get the good ones, and 5 teams get the bad ones.

Or the bottom 5 teams in the championship get the good tyres.

#47 AustinF1

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 17:14

I wonder if these guys will put their name in the hat. With these tire specs, they might as well ...

 

dubblebubbletwistbubblegumassortedfruitf



#48 Frood

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 18:24

I bet it'll be someone like Hankook, who'll use it to raise their profile further. They've been gradually moving up the racing ladder. They're supplying Formula E now, so I expect they'll be looking at this closely.

#49 TomNokoe

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 19:16

By far the biggest performance differentiator outside the team control.


They do choose which tyre manufacturer they want to use, though, which is in their control.

#50 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2023 - 19:18

They do choose which tyre manufacturer they want to use, though, which is in their control.

 


The teams have a choice?