244 replies to this topic

[Gabrci]

I quite liked it as lightweight entertainment. Of course it's biased and simplified but I enjoyed the small hints at F1 folklore, for example Hunt saying "bullshit" and Murray disapproving, or Hunt saying "big balls", which in reality he said when Stirling Moss was interviewing him. He was also sitting while Murray was standing, which is indeed how it was. I guess the series scored a lot of good points with me with these non-Senna related easter eggs, because these are things that wouldn't have been necessary, 99% of the viewers won't notice these but they made the effort to do them anyway. 

 

Xuxa was great, I thought she was the best actor/actress in the whole series (true, the bar wasn't particularly high). I also liked several other characters like Fullerton, Balestre or Mosley.

 

The only thing I wasn't happy with is the portrayal of Ickx at Monaco, I thought this was quite unfair on him. 

 

Edit: And a whole generation is realizing now that Martin Brundle used to be a racing driver! 

Edited by Gabrci, 08 December 2024 - 21:31.

[F1 Mike]

Not the best of reviews here...


https://fandomwire.c...plete-disaster/

[404KF2]

I found him to be annoying so I’ll not waste my time with a series like this one.

[krea]

Not the best of reviews here...


https://fandomwire.c...plete-disaster/

I am always impressed how Prost just doesn’t care about the borderline slander of the past two decades. Just the several attempts of creating that French conspiracy between Prost and Balestre is sickening - even not just implying but also being factual wrong.

[Nemo1965]

Senna literally trash talked Prost in the media for vetoing him joining Williams despite having done it himself at Lotus previously.

I know. I remember two ‘pressers’ like that, it was shameful.

[AlexPrime]

I checked the first episodes, pretty slow, some good moments, but overall not as epic and exciting as I expected I don't know if I will watch the rest

[Dan333SP]

I quite liked it as lightweight entertainment. Of course it's biased and simplified but I enjoyed the small hints at F1 folklore, for example Hunt saying "bullshit" and Murray disapproving, or Hunt saying "big balls", which in reality he said when Stirling Moss was interviewing him. He was also sitting while Murray was standing, which is indeed how it was. I guess the series scored a lot of good points with me with these non-Senna related easter eggs, because these are things that wouldn't have been necessary, 99% of the viewers won't notice these but they made the effort to do them anyway. 

 

Xuxa was great, I thought she was the best actor/actress in the whole series (true, the bar wasn't particularly high). I also liked several other characters like Fullerton, Balestre or Mosley.

 

The only thing I wasn't happy with is the portrayal of Ickx at Monaco, I thought this was quite unfair on him. 

 

Edit: And a whole generation is realizing now that Martin Brundle used to be a racing driver! 

 

My wife (with very limited prior knowledge and F1 interest) and I have been watching the series, 3 episodes in. She says she's enjoying it, so that's good news for broader interest I think. I was also really enjoying some of the "easter eggs" like you said about Hunt and some others. Was funny with the '88 Mclaren launch to see that they basically used the actual script of what Prost and Ayrton said to the media (Prost's "can we tie?" bit), and I've been very impressed with their attention to detail on the cars. I guess they've used some custom built replicas for some of the on-track stuff but they are really impressively well done, every sponsor logo and dimension of the Toleman/MP4/4/Lotus appear to be spot on, and they've done some cool blending of real racing footage with their own like switching from the actual footage of Senna climbing out of his car after the Monaco shunt to the actor using identical body language in pushing away the marshal. 

 

Beyond that, everything else said here about the lack of character development and making Senna seem like he has no flaws is a bit disappointing, plus it stood out to me like a sore thumb that all of the F3 "racing" took place at one random track in Brazil that was not at all convincing as a stand in for Brands/Silverstone/wherever in the UK. Oh, and the Prost actor's hair is distractingly wet all the time, plus it feels wrong to NOT see Daniel Bruhl play Nikki Lauda, although whoever has the role in this series also does a great job matching his voice. 

Edited by Dan333SP, 09 December 2024 - 15:44.

[Dan333SP]

I've been thinking... I wonder how much of the heavily biased portrayal we get of Ayrton in this series and in the documentary is down to the family's control of his image? Everything I've heard indicates they have a sort of veto right on any narrative around him that they do not approve of. If that's true, it's a shame because such a complex person deserves a more fleshed out storyline that would be far more interesting to audiences than just this ruthlessly committed hero who dies tragically. 

[krea]

I've been thinking... I wonder how much of the heavily biased portrayal we get of Ayrton in this series and in the documentary is down to the family's control of his image? Everything I've heard indicates they have a sort of veto right on any narrative around him that they do not approve of. If that's true, it's a shame because such a complex person deserves a more fleshed out storyline that would be far more interesting to audiences than just this ruthlessly committed hero who dies tragically.

It was basically confirmed by the Netflix side that the Senna family didn’t allow anything.

[Pablo Vignone]

My wife (with very limited prior knowledge and F1 interest) and I have been watching the series, 3 episodes in. She says she's enjoying it, so that's good news for broader interest I think. I was also really enjoying some of the "easter eggs" like you said about Hunt and some others. Was funny with the '88 Mclaren launch to see that they basically used the actual script of what Prost and Ayrton said to the media (Prost's "can we tie?" bit), and I've been very impressed with their attention to detail on the cars. I guess they've used some custom built replicas for some of the on-track stuff but they are really impressively well done, every sponsor logo and dimension of the Toleman/MP4/4/Lotus appear to be spot on, and they've done some cool blending of real racing footage with their own like switching from the actual footage of Senna climbing out of his car after the Monaco shunt to the actor using identical body language in pushing away the marshal. 

 

Beyond that, everything else said here about the lack of character development and making Senna seem like he has no flaws is a bit disappointing, plus it stood out to me like a sore thumb that all of the F3 "racing" took place at one random track in Brazil that was not at all convincing as a stand in for Brands/Silverstone/wherever in the UK. Oh, and the Prost actor's hair is distractingly wet all the time, plus it feels wrong to NOT see Daniel Bruhl play Nikki Lauda, although whoever has the role in this series also does a great job matching his voice. 

 

The track in question is the famous "Juan Manuel Fangio" in Balcarce, Argentina, not in Brazil, built in 1971. Giving the special relationship Senna had with Fangio, you cannot say it is not appropiated 

It is the same town in which the Crespi family built the cars' replicas

But I agree it's difficult to find in England heights like that surrounding the track

[Dan333SP]

The track in question is the famous "Juan Manuel Fangio" in Balcarce, Argentina, not in Brazil, built in 1971. Giving the special relationship Senna had with Fangio, you cannot say it is not appropiated 

It is the same town in which the Crespi family built the cars' replicas

But I agree it's difficult to find in England heights like that surrounding the track

 

Did not realize this, looking at the track on google maps it's pretty cool, built into a mountainside with a Suzuka-esque portion that loops under the track. I'd imagine they filmed the karting scenes at the kart track adjacent to the race circuit? 

[Pablo Vignone]

No, that kart track isn't existed anymore

They built a kart track with tyres on one of the straights

The "portuguese" kart track part was not filmed in Balcarce

[Gravelngrass]

Senna literally trash talked Prost in the media for vetoing him joining Williams despite having done it himself at Lotus previously.  

I think Prost better hurry with his own documentary because he's going to be seen as the villain, at least by the DTS generation. On the other hand, should he care? 

Edited by Gravelngrass, 09 December 2024 - 16:14.

[piszkosfred]

I think Prost better hurry with his own documentary because he's going to be seen as the villain, at least by the DTS generation. On the other hand, should he care? 

I don't think he does. But the saddest thing is that out of the big 4 (Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet) he is probably the least known nowdays outside of the hardcore racing fans. Despite being 4 time champion, winning 51 GPs, having teammates like Watson, Arnoux, Lauda, Rosberg, Senna, Mansell.

[PayasYouRace]

I suspect Prost has had enough of being portrayed as a villain to care.

I was thinking way, way too much about what my ensemble cast F1 series would look like. It would start pre-Senna, two TV seasons before.

I think I’d have season 1 cover Monaco/Spain 1981 to Belgium 1982, in a six episode format.

Episode 1 would cover Monaco and Spain, showcasing Gilles Villeneuve, as well as introducing Nelson Piquet via his Monaco crash when leading.

Episode 2 would serve as a bit more introduction to the ensemble. Alain Prost his first wins, Reutemann, Laffite, Watson, important secondary roles. End on the season finale at Las Vegas.

Episode 3 would ramp things up by skipping ahead to South Africa 1982. The flaring up again of the FISA-FOCA War, with the drivers’ strike. This is a great point to introduce Niki Lauda, as well as properly introduce Didier Pironi. Obviously this can properly introduce Balestre too. The race itself can underline Prost’s skill too.

Episode 4 will cover Brazil 1982, and the Ayer cooled brakes controversy, expanding on the FISA-FOCA WR story. The appeals, and the eventual plan to boycott Imola. Reutemann’s sudden departure, and Williams finding a replacement would be a good secondary plot line.

Episode 5 will be events surrounding Imola, and of course culminating in Pironi’s “betrayal” of Villeneuve and the fallout there.

The season finale would be Villeneuve’s tragic passing at Zolder. I’d want to have a shocking narrative but a tasteful portrayal. Can stir the pot a bit in the lead up with drama relating to the previous year’s accidents, and obviously the enmity between Gilles and Didier.

Assuming the series was successful, season two would cover the rest of 1982, with Pironi’s accident being a major plot point. But develop the Piquet/Prost rivalry, and there are two major plot points later on. The Brabham fuel controversy, and of course the Prost leaving Renault situation. This time end the TV season in line with the F1 season, with Prost rejoining McLaren and hint at a young Brazilian talent.

At this point I’d give the Senna family an ultimatum. Let us portray your man realistically or he won’t be seen at all. We could easily cover the next few F1 seasons without showing Ayrton, but your fans would not be happy about missing key career moments. If the family plays ball, then we could properly include the various dramas including Senna.

I’d want the series to run to a grand finale at Jerez 1997. Not only would it allow full coverage of Senna/Post, Mansell and Indycar, Hill/Schumahcer, but we could come full circle and end with Gilles’ son winning the world championship and a disgraced Schumacher promising to come back and return Ferrari to their former glory.

[Collombin]

And if IMS is unavailable for filming the Mansell Indycar scenes, you could always use Cadwell Park.

[BRG]

And if IMS is unavailable for filming the Mansell Indycar scenes, you could always use Cadwell Park.

What, with the world famous Lincolnshire Alps in the background?

[DevilDare]

 

Snetterton looks nice! 

[PayasYouRace]

BTW, what’s the plot point of a 1960s BSCC race in a series about Senna?

[PayasYouRace]

Last one I promise.

The episode after Imola 1994 would be a parallel flashback episode, showing the similarities of what Graham and Damon Hill went through.

[Collombin]

BTW, what’s the plot point of a 1960s BSCC race in a series about Senna?

I won't be watching any more of it to find out, but afaik Senna only did two touring car races in his life, neither at Snetterton. He did win both.

[PayasYouRace]

I won't be watching any more of it to find out, but afaik Senna only did two touring car races in his life, neither at Snetterton. He did win both.

Nurburgring F1 all stars and…?

[Collombin]

Nurburgring F1 all stars and…?

He did one at Oulton Park a couple of years earlier. Slightly lower standard of opposition.

[BRG]

BTW, what’s the plot point of a 1960s BSCC race in a series about Senna?

And if it is at Balcarce in Argentina, how did they all end up there?

[LittleChris]

He won a Talbot Sunbeam race (I think at Oulton ) when doing FF2000 so hardly BSCC. 

 

Circuit pictured doesn't look like Fangio circuit at Balcarce to me since that's located on the edge of a rocky escarpment in quite a flat area of Argentina 

[PayasYouRace]

Hang on. Is that an actual historic touring car race at Snetterton with the mountains photoshopped into the background?

[LittleChris]

Cadwell's Mountain (s) perhaps ? An oblique reference to his 1983 practice shunt 

[Nemo1965]

If they can cgi almost anything, want can’t they cgi another background?

[Nemo1965]

I don't think he does. But the saddest thing is that out of the big 4 (Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet) he is probably the least known nowdays outside of the hardcore racing fans. Despite being 4 time champion, winning 51 GPs, having teammates like Watson, Arnoux, Lauda, Rosberg, Senna, Mansell.

I have seen at least one quite extensive interview, in which Prost also talks about his later improved relationship with Senna, that he really looked hurt by the one dimensional portrayal of himself in the documentary.

Edited by Nemo1965, Yesterday, 13:23.

[Flyhigh]

I will just never get the ridiculous hype of Senna and the wishy washy shroud of can do no wrong immortality his legacy achieved because of his tragic early passing. If he had lived on to see his career wind down like everyone else in mediocre cars we would not be forced to swallow this legend stuff.

 

He was a phenomenal driver, of his time. But so was Fangio. Clark. Schumacher. Lewis. And now Max. Bar Clark, all far more successful than Senna.

 

I can't see those getting the same treatment in years to come. Ironically his death handed him a cloth of invincibility.

 

Theres just too much of it, and people are afraid to say thanks that's enough because it's deemed disrespectful.

What a bitter needless post and mindset, dude. Senna is a huge F1 asset overall, that made it that much bigger, like Jordan is to Basketball, Maradona/Pele in Football, etc. Your bitter perspective is not going to change that.  Of course since he transcended the sport a lot, We close F1 fans, have to deal with a lot of casuals, their focus on the inspirational figure, lack of real interest in F1 itself, oversimplifications, but that is normal in every domain a figure transcends its field.    

And regarding Senna, pretty sure most casuals and experts alike, do meet in the conclusion he is indeed in the legend, extraordinary,  goat category whatever you want to call it. The comparison with these other names are really petty, uncalled for, they all have all legendary status too, I mean really, are Hamilton, Verstappen, Schumacher and such, in lack of superlatives, recognition?  Specially in their home countries. And your personal judgments, opinions about success are just that, yours, most top drivers do pick Senna as a goat or the goat usually when they are asked, including many names on your list. Legends of today stand on the shoulders,are made bigger, by the legends from past (and they are usually the first to know that) Senna was a huge fan of Fangio, Stewart at the time.  

I have little interest in watching this series, having watched the real thing countless times, as well as documentaries. But so as it happens, and is a fact of human history, life, that legendary figures in their fields are "re-discovered" again and again, by newer generations, by newer media platforms, etc. I mean who needed, needs another film about Queen, Elvis, Beatles?  Who needs another series in whatever form about Michael Jordan, Maradona, Pele? Who needs Tyson fighting on Netflix at 58 to discover him, etc?  But guess what?  It will keep on happening over and over again through the years, decades to come. That´s what legend status does, just deal with it and don´t watch it if you have had enough it, simple.         
 

Edited by Flyhigh, Today, 01:09.

[TecnoRacing]

Hang on. Is that an actual historic touring car race at Snetterton with the mountains photoshopped into the background?

 

Yea, Snetterton social media having some fun

 

https://x.com/Snette...983959673045421

[CoolBreeze]

My 2 cents:

The actors were quite ok i think especially the Senna actor. Pretty similar i would say. I also think its great that they showed the 'actual' cars, and didn't cover up the tobacco advertising, etc.

 

However, as usual it's pretty one sided. I.E, Senna could do no wrong.

Overall entertaining, good for the newer generation of F1 fans. Seasoned one like myself, i just used it to pass time, and also remind myself what an ace both Senna and Prost were ,

[PayasYouRace]

Yea, Snetterton social media having some fun

 

https://x.com/Snette...983959673045421

OK. No wonder the track itself looked so accurate. I thought it was a photo from filming. This makes a lot more sense.

[Viryfan]

I think Prost better hurry with his own documentary because he's going to be seen as the villain, at least by the DTS generation. On the other hand, should he care?

Prost is releasing right now in France his docu series.

The first three episodes (which amounts 90 minutes) are mostly focused in his life between 1955 and 1986 (second WDC and the death of his elder brother from various cancer).

They mostly focus on his personnal life:
- the armenian genocide and how it affected her grand Mother
- his brother illness which introduced him to go kart (Alain is a big soccer fan while his brother was the real race fan and petrolhead).
- how he rose through the ranks (how he did fraud his military service in order to do the Elf racing school, his feud with Goldstein in go kart, his monaco win in F3)
- the afternath of French Gp 1982 on his personal life

The next three episode will be mainly focused on Senna, as Ayrton will replace his brother in the plot of the docu series.

Edited by Viryfan, Today, 08:10.

[piszkosfred]

Prost is releasing right now in France his docu series.

The first three episodes (which amounts 90 minutes) are mostly focused in his life between 1955 and 1986 (second WDC and the death of his elder brother from various cancer).

They mostly focus on his personnal life:
- the armenian genocide and how it affected her grand Mother
- his brother illness which introduced him to go kart (Alain is a big soccer fan while his brother was the real race fan and petrolhead).
- how he rose through the ranks (how he did fraud his military service in order to do the Elf racing school, his feud with Goldstein in go kart, his monaco win in F3)
- the afternath of French Gp 1982 on his personal life

The next three episode will be mainly focused on Senna, as Ayrton will replace his brother in the plot of the docu series.

Unfortunately it will be hard to get english subs for that.

[DevilDare]

OK. No wonder the track itself looked so accurate. I thought it was a photo from filming. This makes a lot more sense.

 

That's a screencap from the series, not Snetterton social team being cheeky on Photoshop.

 

I don't know who was the genius on the production team that thought no one would pick up on that.

[Sterzo]

I shall not watch this series. If they show Snetterton without the pig farms visible, I have no interest.

[Gravelngrass]

Prost is releasing right now in France his docu series.

The first three episodes (which amounts 90 minutes) are mostly focused in his life between 1955 and 1986 (second WDC and the death of his elder brother from various cancer).

They mostly focus on his personnal life:
- the armenian genocide and how it affected her grand Mother
- his brother illness which introduced him to go kart (Alain is a big soccer fan while his brother was the real race fan and petrolhead).
- how he rose through the ranks (how he did fraud his military service in order to do the Elf racing school, his feud with Goldstein in go kart, his monaco win in F3)
- the afternath of French Gp 1982 on his personal life

The next three episode will be mainly focused on Senna, as Ayrton will replace his brother in the plot of the docu series.

Cool, where can we watch this? If subtitles available…

[BRG]

I shall not watch this series. If they show Snetterton without the pig farms visible, I have no interest.

Snow-capped peaks not enough for you then?  Some people are never satisfied!

 

What a bitter needless post and mindset, dude. 

 

Not at all.  danmills absolutely nailed it. 

[PayasYouRace]

This “making of” reel is quite cool though:

https://www.instagra...HR4cWd0ZGMzOGZk

[TecnoRacing]

That's a screencap from the series, not Snetterton social team being cheeky on Photoshop.

 

I don't know who was the genius on the production team that thought no one would pick up on that.

No, that's not a screencap - there isn't a scene with historic touring cars (or contemporary Snetterton buildings and signage) in the series.

It's Snetterton circuit having fun with the fact that the Norfolk circuit in the series is depicted as being mountainous. Here it is in the series:

 

[TMC44]

Looks like Mansilla on pole with Toledano behind. 

[EightGear]

It does seem odd to not care about things like those mountains, while at the same time, the trophy's of Suzuka are correct (which I loved). Also, the Zakspeed lining up on the last row in Suzuka '88 was correct too!

[midgrid]

Snow-capped peaks not enough for you then?  Some people are never satisfied!

 

I expect nothing less than the Sydney Opera House, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, and herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the Serengeti!

[LittleChris]

No, that's not a screencap - there isn't a scene with historic touring cars (or contemporary Snetterton buildings and signage) in the series.
It's Snetterton circuit having fun with the fact that the Norfolk circuit in the series is depicted as being mountainous. Here it is in the series:

Now that pic does look like the Balcarce circuit whereas the other one didn't 😄