88 replies to this topic

[E1pix]

It’s hard to believe Damon is Graham’s son, they’re so different.

But they have “very cool“ in common.

[RTH]

Dennis Lotis was a big star in 1950's and yes I have heard of him! As such his fame and presumably income would predate Moore, Connery and Graham Hill. So why would his wife need to sell eggs to them later on?  He was too early to be a victim of "Sex n'drugs and rock and roll" surely?:

Here is a pathe film clip about Dennis Lotis at his home in Mill Hill in 1958  the area where Graham Hill also lived   

[Doug Nye]

Graham could be a good bloke.

 

Damon is a good bloke.

 

DCN

[LittleChris]

More like Bette than Graham ?

[ellrosso]

Damon comes across really well on the AGP telecast - very natural and informative. I could well imagine he is a good bloke. So pleased he won the 1996 title after the debacle with Schumacher in Adelaide.

[E1pix]

If memory’s working, it seems Schumacher pulled the same trick the next year, though again failing and confirming Villeneuve’s title.

[404KF2]

Reversion to childhood bumper cars during carnival.

[john aston]

Damon is responsible for writing the most nakedly personal and riveting autobiography  of an F1 driver I've ever read . He has always seemed to be a deeply thoughtful man , and one with many interests outside the F1 bubble.  

[sabrejet]

There'a certain pompous irony in stating "Dennis Lotis (me neither)" whilst at the same time bemoaning the need for Graham Hill's name to require a similar treatment.

 

Much as we'd like it to be otherwise, 99% of the world's population considers our hobby to be a rather irrelevant exercise. So maybe direct the energy at something a bit more substantial?

 

Like trying to out-do each other on "first race attended"? (mine was the 1928 Tripoli Grand Prix: I took the kids and we all got selfies with Tazio).

[ellrosso]

Yes dead right Eric, Michael didn't come off too well from that one did he........ you could say a lot couldn't you.....

[ellrosso]

Nice shot of Graham at Warwick Farm, Tasman series 1968 - the year of his second F1 world title. I do find the title of this thread quite sad as very few racing drivers from any era can match the career success of G Hill overall. Perhaps if he had retired earlier

he may have been looked on more favourably - who knows.... He may not have been consistently at the top of the tree, but he achieved a lot, under very difficult circumstances - taking over as team leader at Lotus after Jim Clark was killed especially as one example.

[Charlieman]

Returning to the original topic... The author of the BBC obituary for sports commentator John Motson on Feb 23 2023 felt it necessary to describe Gary Lineker as a "former England striker". I think it's a reasonable practice to add the parenthetical phrase which the sub-editors can trim if they feel it is unneeded or is over wordy.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...otball/64741718

[Tim Murray]

It’s getting on for fifty years since Graham died. Fifty years before that, people such as Segrave and Birkin were household names in the UK, but I suspect that most people in the 1970s wouldn’t have known who they were.

It’s different for film stars like Connery and Moore. As 10kDA said earlier, their films are always being repeated on TV, so they tend to be better remembered.

[Nick Planas]

It's worse in the popular music world. As a teacher, I'm explaining to a bunch of teenagers who the Beatles were, and one of them says "That's like, over 50 years ago!" (note the use of the mandatory word "like")

 

Crikey - so true! When I was their age, we'd have been talking about the music of the 1920s, which was incredibly old fashioned.

 

And as for Mozart and Bach, I believe they roamed with the dinosaurs...

 

Back to GH, I have no problem with the explanation as to who he was; as has been said above, why should we expect the general population to know a famous racing driver from 50+ years back?

Edited by Nick Planas, 02 April 2023 - 11:53.

[Charlieman]

A family member used to argue "that was yonks ago" when we talked about political or social events which occurred in recent years. Later. she was lecturing her law students about how things changed following the September 11 2001 attacks, and she recognised that almost of her students were too young to have any direct memories relating to something which was "so obviously important". She had to rethink her course notes.

 

As every University Challenge viewer will tell you, the questions on their specialist subject are "obvious".

[john aston]

 

There'a certain pompous irony in stating "Dennis Lotis (me neither)" whilst at the same time bemoaning the need for Graham Hill's name to require a similar treatment.

 

Much as we'd like it to be otherwise, 99% of the world's population considers our hobby to be a rather irrelevant exercise. So maybe direct the energy at something a bit more substantial?

 

Like trying to out-do each other on "first race attended"? (mine was the 1928 Tripoli Grand Prix: I took the kids and we all got selfies with Tazio).

 

Pompous , moi ? I merely mentioned something that struck me as possibly of interest . 65 posts suggests it might have been. . Despite being around at the time ,and loving music , I'd never heard of Mr Lotis. But Hill was someone who had transcended his sporting record and was  a regular sight on light entertainment programmes .I would not have expected any layman to have heard of an Amon , a (P) Hill or a Hulme but I raised an ironic eyebrow at the explanatory text  , that 's all.  

 

And I'd hate it if even more hoi polloi cared about our sport. After Drive to Survive everybody and their dog  are experts. 

 

PS Ah , only the '28 race , What a parvenu. Explains why I didn't spot you when  Szisz won in' 06 

Edited by john aston, 02 April 2023 - 13:47.

[opplock]

 .I would not have expected any layman to have heard of an Amon , a (P) Hill or a Hulme but I raised an ironic eyebrow at the explanatory text  , that 's all.  

 

 

 

A month ago I'd have suggested that you avoid New Zealand and the USA. Having attended the Tasman Revival Meeting at Pukekohe on 26th February however I must reluctantly agree. There were probably fewer than 100 spectators including one seriously jet lagged holder of a UK passport. Rather different to my last visit in Jan 1981. I did see all three of those you mention plus Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart .... race in the Tasman Cup. Despite Frank Gardner telling me I was too young to have been there (Goodwood FOS 1996).   

[Nick Planas]

A month ago I'd have suggested that you avoid New Zealand and the USA. Having attended the Tasman Revival Meeting at Pukekohe on 26th February however I must reluctantly agree. There were probably fewer than 100 spectators including one seriously jet lagged holder of a UK passport. Rather different to my last visit in Jan 1981. I did see all three of those you mention plus Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart .... race in the Tasman Cup. Despite Frank Gardner telling me I was too young to have been there (Goodwood FOS 1996).   

Sadly, as well as my music references above, I find myself having to explain who Sir Jackie Stewart is to most of my students. Bear in mind, I live in Brackley and teach at home and also around Banbury - and many of my pupils are sons/daughters of F1 team members... it is what it is. 

[RCH]

It’s hard to believe Damon is Graham’s son, they’re so different.

But they have “very cool“ in common.

 

Different temperament maybe but:

I recall seeing a photo of Dan Margulies C Type in the pits sometime in the mid '50's. To my surprise Damon Hill appeared to standing alongside, then it clicked...

[marksixman]

It’s getting on for fifty years since Graham died. Fifty years before that, people such as Segrave and Birkin were household names in the UK, but I suspect that most people in the 1970s wouldn’t have known who they were.

 

A couple of years ago I took on a new gardener. He was a nice enough young chap, but very slow, and we were on the point of saying "thanks, but don't really need you any more" when he announced he was moving away from the area, so would be stopping. Problem solved.

 

While he was telling us this he noticed (one of !) my bookshelves. "Wow", he said "You have Sir Henry Segrave's biography" (by Malcolm Campbell and J Wentworth Day). I was staggered that he knew the name, as he knew my interests but we had never spoken about motorsport. Turns out Segrave was one of his great-great-Uncles, but he had never seen or read the book. Against my better judgement I offered to lend it to him (as I at least knew his present address and his mobile number), on penalty of serious consequences if it was not returned. He made a special trip to bring it back four days later, having apparently read it twice !

 

Faith in human nature restored. Only temporarily of course !!!

[moffspeed]

Lets face it - this is just a generational thing.

 

I was in Italy a couple of weeks back and met a lovely Californian couple, probably in their early 30's. They mentioned their surname was 'Ginther".

 

"Any relation to Richie ?"     ''Who ??''   OK.  Time to turn the conversation to Trump...

[Doug Nye]

Who?

[moffspeed]

Donald J. Trump, a little known and reclusive 76 year old, a New Yorker by birth but now enjoying semi-retirement in Florida.

 

His racing resume is brief but impressive. A single lap of Daytona in "The Beast". Apparently regular NASCAR racers, tears in their eyes, approached Trump after his lap and said it was the finest, biggliest, greatest lap of the tri-oval by a limousine that they had ever witnessed.

Edited by moffspeed, 03 April 2023 - 11:53.

[marksixman]

As a follow-on to my post above (#70) ref Sir Henry Segrave, and although even further off-topic, a related tale !

 

Around six years ago my wife and stopped at a pub in Somerset, quite un-planned, for a light lunch. Whilst ordering at the bar I was studying some motorsport-related pictures on the wall to the side. Most were recent and pretty easy to identify, but one intrigued me and I was trying to work out the car and venue (probably a Sunbeam, and probably Brooklands) as there was no caption. 

 

"Bet you don't know who that is then" says the barman.

 

"That" I said "is Sir Henry (de Hane) Segrave".

 

"Here, Boss" calls Barman "this bloke knows the old driver's name, and his middle name (!), and he's not a regular". "Free drink, then" calls back the unseen Boss.  Well, thank you very much !!  Turns out it was a regular question for anyone showing interest, and not many got it right. The photograph was part of 'fixtures and fittings' when the Boss took the pub, so he didn't know where it was from or why it was there.

 

Sadly the pub burnt down totally sometime last year, and I presume the picture went with it.

[Parkesi]

Trump was driven - by Mario Andretti to the White House six years ago. 

[marksixman]

Trump was driven - by Mario Andretti to the White House six years ago. 

 

What a superb, missed, opportunity !

[Derwent Motorsport]

I agree about Damon's book. He did an OU Literature degree before writing it completely himself. 

[Sterzo]

I agree about Damon's book. He did an OU Literature degree before writing it completely himself. 

Which prompts the question - in his foreword to "Life at the Limit", Graham famously tells us that he wrote the book himself, without the involvement of a professional writer. There's no reason to doubt this statement, but I just wonder if the broad knowledge-base of the TNF community is able to confirm it. No doubt an editor at William Kimber would have polished the draft, but it's pleasing to think there was no "ghost".

 

(Not that I wish ill to professional writers - doing so on TNF would be akin to shouting "mint sauce" in a field of sheep).

[john aston]

Trump was driven - by Mario Andretti to the White House six years ago. 

 

Well , that is Mario crossed off my Christmas card list.. 

[ensign14]

Mario has always been a man of the right.  After all, he lived under Communism before emigrating. 

[Tom Glowacki]

Well , that is Mario crossed off my Christmas card list.. 

That picture was taken right before Trump set the all-time lap record at Indy, after which Andretti, Jones, and Foyt all told him they were glad they never had to race against him.

[opplock]

Well , that is Mario crossed off my Christmas card list.. 

 

Mario must still have some speed. He managed to lose 20 carloads of POTUS' secret service squad. Or was that clip taken a lot longer than 6 years ago? I suspect so due to the Celebrity Apprentice signage. Not to mention the NYC yellow cabs.

[E1pix]

That picture was taken right before Trump set the all-time lap record at Indy, after which Andretti, Jones, and Foyt all told him they were glad they never had to race against him.

Everybody knows that, and commented “Nothing like this has ever been done before.”

[Glengavel]

On the topic of Graham Hill, why did he miss three rounds of the 1966 Tasman series? Looking at the results, it's possible he could have beaten Stewart to win the series. Was he back at base working on the P83 but if so, why return for the Australian races?

[Sterzo]

On the topic of Graham Hill, why did he miss three rounds of the 1966 Tasman series? Looking at the results, it's possible he could have beaten Stewart to win the series. Was he back at base working on the P83 but if so, why return for the Australian races?

He returned to England to test the H16, but found it wasn't ready, according to "Life at the Limit." He then took Bette and the children over for the remaining part of the series.

[Arjan de Roos]

Graham could be a good bloke.

 

Damon is a good bloke.

 

DCN

Dutch fan Cas is go karting fan and challenged his idol to a duel. Have a look at the video for "the battle". 

 

[Tim Murray]

On the topic of Graham Hill, why did he miss three rounds of the 1966 Tasman series? Looking at the results, it's possible he could have beaten Stewart to win the series. Was he back at base working on the P83 but if so, why return for the Australian races?

According to DCN in BRM Vol 3, Sir Alfred Owen was keen for BRM to contest the Tasman series but Tony Rudd was very against the idea, feeling it was a waste of time and resource and that the car wouldn’t be competitive. In the end a compromise was reached. Stewart did the whole series, while Hill came back to carry out testing in the UK. It was always the plan that he would then return for the Australian rounds. This gave BRM the chance to assess the promising Richard Attwood in NZ. As Sterzo said, the P83 wasn’t ready to test but Graham did do some useful work in P261s before returning to Australia.

[Jim Thurman]

    Jim  it's like when awards programs do their In Memoriam segment , and folks comment on so and so who was missing  and why they were left out.    At the Oscars this year  you had Paul Sorvino being the one most cited as being left out , But then you has some like Henry Silva  who has decades of great roles also left out.  Seems like if you live into your nineties as an actor /actress  the odds of getting over looked rises.

Paul, exactly. When former notables live into their 90s, they are pretty much forgotten. It won't happen for those who have remained viable, household names, and you and I (and others here) will clearly remember those from our childhood and youth, but the people writing their obituaries will not know of them. It's part of the passage of time.

 

Sadly, if one lives long enough, out of the spotlight they once were in, they're pretty much forgotten by everyone.

[E1pix]

That’s absolutely true, Jim and I’ve known plenty of former drivers who struggle with that. I try to do my part to remind them they’re not.

It’s the same for anyone who once experienced the limelight.