792 replies to this topic

[milestone 11]

Doubt this needs a stand alone thread but nowhere else obvious to put it.
https://racer.com/20...ce-f1-weekends/
 

All Formula 1 teams have agreed an updated Sprint format that will see two races from the Azerbaijan Grand Prix weekend onwards, with Saturdays becoming a standalone event with a separate qualifying session.

To address concerns that the FP2 session on a Saturday morning was largely pointless during a Sprint weekend — taking place after Friday’s qualifying so cars were under parc ferme conditions — the format change has been discussed to replace FP2 with a competitive session.

Now, FP1 will be followed by Friday qualifying to set the grid for Sunday’s grand prix, with Saturday becoming solely about the Sprint. A morning qualifying session will follow a similar format to the usual Q1/Q2/Q3 schedule but with shorter timings so that only one lap is possible in Q3, and that will set the grid for the Sprint that same day that will carry the same points as previously.

Edited by Risil, 07 April 2023 - 13:32.
Added the beginning of the article for context

[Otaku]

Stupid sprint races

[milestone 11]

I don't like them either but clearly they're here to stay. More of them too sadly. I do, however, much prefer this format if we have to have them. Two races and two qualles every weekend is a bit much in my opinion.

[RedRabbit]

How will Q3 only be long enough for one lap? The ENTIRE reason for qualifying to be split into 3 knockout sessions was to eliminate traffic in the pole position shoot out.

So, with a shorter Q3, that must put all 10 cars on track at the same time. Sounds about right for the FIA ... 😂

[EndlessMotion]

Never been a fan of the sprint races as they often come to an end just when things look like they could get interesting, something the Grand Prix usually takes care of funnily enough. But if they're going to keep them then this format is far better to me personally as the sprint race won't have an impact on the GP starting positions. It always felt so wrong to have qualifying for a sprint race which in turn decided the GP starting grid. Qualifying for your grid position on Sunday should always be the way and not the lottery of your finishing position in a gimmicky sprint race.

[Clatter]

From a TV viewer perspective, it seems a bit silly to put qualifying for the GP on Friday.

[milestone 11]

Being faced with 40 F1 races remaining is not really something that I'm prepared to dedicate that amount of time to. There being a potential 240 championship points available from the sprint races alone is ridiculous, it should be an entirely separate championship.

[JL14]

They should have gone qualifying battles like in Formula E for the Sprint qualifying.
They should have made the sprint 15% longer.

 

(Bit weird anyway, sprint is 1/3 of the race, max time 1/2 of the race: 17/51 laps 60/120 minutes max respectively)

[P123]

Being faced with 40 F1 races remaining is not really something that I'm prepared to dedicate that amount of time to. There being a potential 240 championship points available from the sprint races alone is ridiculous, it should be an entirely separate championship.

 

It gets to be a bit of overkill.  So have a Grand Prix and a Petit Prix Championship instead.

 

Burying the proper race qualifying on a Friday is a bit of an odd move.

[JimmyClark]

Eugh I just wish we'd get rid of them. But sadly that genie is out of the bottle and there's no way of putting it back in.

What other races this year have them after Baku? I've got USA, Brazil, Spa in my head, but can't remember the others?

[highdownforce]

MotoGP format:

- One qualify on Saturday
- Sprint and Race follows the same qualify grid order

Edited by highdownforce, 07 April 2023 - 12:58.

[milestone 11]

Eugh I just wish we'd get rid of them. But sadly that genie is out of the bottle and there's no way of putting it back in.
What other races this year have them after Baku? I've got USA, Brazil, Spa in my head, but can't remember the others?

I don't know, the way Medland has written the article suggests all meetings.
Quote
"All Formula 1 teams have agreed an updated Sprint format that will see two races from the Azerbaijan Grand Prix weekend onwards, with Saturdays becoming a standalone event with a separate qualifying session."

I hope that I am mistaken.

I am, thankfully, however, '24... https://twitter.com/...268212471603200

Edited by milestone 11, 07 April 2023 - 13:10.

[JimmyClark]

I don't know, the way Medland has written the article suggests all meetings.
Quote
"All Formula 1 teams have agreed an updated Sprint format that will see two races from the Azerbaijan Grand Prix weekend onwards, with Saturdays becoming a standalone event with a separate qualifying session."

I hope that I am mistaken.

I presumed that just meant designated sprint weekends. Heavens, I hope it's not every weekend.

[ARTGP]

End game is clearly racing on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

 

We're being edged towards it gradually. Make no mistake. 

Edited by ARTGP, 07 April 2023 - 13:05.

[TomNokoe]

Saturday is going to be very thin. A 20-30 minute qualifying session followed by a 30 minute sprint!

[milestone 11]

I presumed that just meant designated sprint weekends. Heavens, I hope it's not every weekend.

Yeah, Medland confims just sprint weekends. https://twitter.com/...268212471603200

[Ali623]

How will Q3 only be long enough for one lap? The ENTIRE reason for qualifying to be split into 3 knockout sessions was to eliminate traffic in the pole position shoot out.

So, with a shorter Q3, that must put all 10 cars on track at the same time. Sounds about right for the FIA ...

 

That'll work out well when someone crashes and brings out the red flag...

[IceSpeed]

How would this sit in the record books. Is it considered a race, qualifying or an exhibition type event? Assume win doesn’t count to GP wins and same with quali so there will be a separate sprint win/qualy tally when they show drivers/teams stats?

[Ali623]

This format sounds terrible, essentially back to back qualifying's over Friday afternoon and Saturday morning, with the same format? So we get to see a driver (Max) take pole twice in a row, exciting stuff... one qualifying would make sense to set both the sprint grid and GP grid, but then of course the weekend sessions are to thin. They're just making a mess of this now trying to shoehorn in as many competitive sessions as they can, which will probably make things less entertaining in the long run. By the time you get to the GP on Sunday, there will be very little anticipation.

[Ruusperi]

Can't they just drop Sprint races. Is it because they made a multi-year deal with the CryptoCurrecy sponsor, so for monetary reasons they are forced to continue this silliness?

Edited by Ruusperi, 07 April 2023 - 13:44.

[SenorSjon]

So even less running of F1 cars on Saturday now? FP3 + Q = 2 hours. SprintQ&R will be much less than that. Saturday will become a travel day to see races on Sunday.

[jee]

Being faced with 40 F1 races remaining is not really something that I'm prepared to dedicate that amount of time to. There being a potential 240 championship points available from the sprint races alone is ridiculous, it should be an entirely separate championship.

While we're at it, they might just use entirely different, more simple cars. Let's just call it "Formula Two"

[ARTGP]

Saturday is going to be very thin. A 20-30 minute qualifying session followed by a 30 minute sprint!

 

Impressive stuff from the powers that be 

Edited by ARTGP, 07 April 2023 - 14:06.

[Anja]

My only hope for the separate sprint was a different qualifying format. One lap would've been fine. But we get the same only shorter? How pointless. If they really absolutely must have more racing during the weekend at least make it something different, not just more of the same. 

Edited by Anja, 07 April 2023 - 14:15.

[Tiakumosan]

When does parc ferme kicks in? Start of quali 1?

[Jellyfishcake]

My only hope for the separate sprint was a different qualifying format. One lap would've been fine. But we get the same only shorter? How pointless. If they really absolutely must have more racing during the weekend at least make it something different, not just more of the same. 

 

Should just go back to the old 12 laps, 1 hour (or 45 mins maybe) sesison for this, like you say at least it'd be different or something 

[Goron3]

So even less running of F1 cars on Saturday now? FP3 + Q = 2 hours. SprintQ&R will be much less than that. Saturday will become a travel day to see races on Sunday.

Saturday becomes a much better day for spectators, because the current FP2 is pointless and just an exercise in wasting tyres. Now we have a qualifying and sprint back to back.

This format will work well at Baku, especially given the weather there in late April and late start time for the Friday qualifying and Saturday Sprint.

[RedRabbit]

That'll work out well when someone crashes and brings out the red flag...

Even a yellow would wreck the only attempt of every car behind.

[RedRabbit]

When does parc ferme kicks in? Start of quali 1?

Yes. That's the motivation for the teams agreeing to scrap FP2 on Sprint weekend as they can't make any set up changes anyway.

So switching it to a qualifying event makes more sense for them.

[Cornholio]

Yeah I don't like the sprint races either but if we have to have them, having stand-alone qualifying for both, with the sprint not affecting the actual Grand Prix (and no reverse grid nonsense, which to be honest was my fear that this was the long term plan when they were first introduced) is an improvement over what we have currently. 

[pup]

Sprint races should be on Friday, in lieu of practice.  Then a single practice Saturday morning and Q in the afternoon.  

[Wuzak]

So, with a shorter Q3, that must put all 10 cars on track at the same time. Sounds about right for the FIA ...

 

Pretty sure that it isn't the FIA pushing this format. That'd be FOM.

 

But with all the talk of the FIA needing to stay out of commercial decisions, FOM sticking their noses in the sporting side should also be talked about.

 

The weekend format is a sporting matter and should be left solely to the FIA.

[Lights]

What's the point of these Saturday sprint races when we will already have extra sprint races on Sunday whenever there's gravel or debris on the circuit.

[Wuzak]

Sprint races should be on Friday, in lieu of practice.  Then a single practice Saturday morning and Q in the afternoon.  

 

They could make things easier by having FP1, then a random draw for the Sprint grid, and the Sprint on the Friday.

 

Then FP2 and qualifying on Saturday.

 

Points for Sprint races go to the Sprint championship, not the actual championship.

 

And, while we are at it, drop the point for fastest lap.

[Cornholio]

What's the point of these Saturday sprint races when we will already have extra sprint races on Sunday whenever there's gravel or debris on the circuit.

 

Because this is entertainment. And there's nothing more entertaining than having what you've been watching for the past hour and 20 minutes completely invalidated in lieu of a 1 or 2 lap crapshoot for the whole thing.

 

/s

[masa90]

Oh crap. Makes me less and less connected to the sport. Just more and more "show" instead of racing every passing year...

[AustinF1]

Being faced with 40 F1 races remaining is not really something that I'm prepared to dedicate that amount of time to. There being a potential 240 championship points available from the sprint races alone is ridiculous, it should be an entirely separate championship.

So, are they actually changing the format for the entire remainder of the season, with a Sprint fomat every weekend ... or does this change only the previously-designated Sprint weekends?

(ETA: I see my question has been answered above. Thanks y'all. Sprints are still stupid though.

 

I don't know if any of these dipshits have noticed, but the current format is NOT broken. Ratings are through the roof. Attendance is maybe the best it's ever been. So of course, they simply can't restrain themselves from messing with it. Unreal. What a bunch of clueless clowns.

Edited by AustinF1, 07 April 2023 - 17:54.

[AustinF1]

So even less running of F1 cars on Saturday now? FP3 + Q = 2 hours. SprintQ&R will be much less than that. Saturday will become a travel day to see races on Sunday.

Hey Sjon, I just stumbled onto your twitter account & followed you. Small world!

[AustinF1]

This format sounds terrible, essentially back to back qualifying's over Friday afternoon and Saturday morning, with the same format? So we get to see a driver (Max) take pole twice in a row, exciting stuff... one qualifying would make sense to set both the sprint grid and GP grid, but then of course the weekend sessions are to thin. They're just making a mess of this now trying to shoehorn in as many competitive sessions as they can, which will probably make things less entertaining in the long run. By the time you get to the GP on Sunday, there will be very little anticipation.

They won't be happy until the golden goose is dead, floating in the water. 

[AustinF1]

When does parc ferme kicks in? Start of quali 1?

At this rate, it'll start as soon as the car is completely assembled.

[AustinF1]

Yes. That's the motivation for the teams agreeing to scrap FP2 on Sprint weekend as they can't make any set up changes anyway.

So switching it to a qualifying event makes more sense for them.

So ... parc ferme starts with the beginning of Friday qualifying? So then we'll get another qualifying session on Saturday with cars running the exact same spec as Friday. Exact same spec for 4 of 5 sessions. Awesome. Having two Qualifying sessions back to back with the cars in parc ferme is beyond idiotic. These guys just can't stop stepping on their own, eh, appendages.

 

The fact that this announcement comes on the heels of a conventionally-formatted event that averaged 111,000+ people per day for 4 days perfectly illustrates the collective inteligence level of the people running the show.

Edited by AustinF1, 07 April 2023 - 19:14.

[ARTGP]

Saturday becomes a much better day for spectators, because the current FP2 is pointless and just an exercise in wasting tyres. Now we have a qualifying and sprint back to back.

This format will work well at Baku, especially given the weather there in late April and late start time for the Friday qualifying and Saturday Sprint.

What is the point of a second qualifying when you already know the pace the day before?

Everything is being over done and I don’t get why some can’t see that.

What happens when people stop buying tickets to Sunday because of Saturday?

Edited by ARTGP, 07 April 2023 - 18:31.

[ANF]

Sprint races sessions suck.

[ANF]

"Congratulations, Checo! You are the World Drivers' Crypto Counterfeit Sprint Session Champion of the World!"

[noikeee]

I don't want sprint races.

But if we have to have sprint races, this seems better? I hated that the sprint race set the grid for the main event. Means drivers had more to lose than to gain during the sprint race - have a spin or a crash and you'd be starting the main race from the back. So it tended to be a bit of a boring conservative mini race.

[AustinF1]

I don't want sprint races.

But if we have to have sprint races, this seems better? I hated that the sprint race set the grid for the main event. Means drivers had more to lose than to gain during the sprint race - have a spin or a crash and you'd be starting the main race from the back. So it tended to be a bit of a boring conservative mini race.

IF Sprint races must be a thing, then imho the best way to format the weekend is a slight variation of Wuzak's above:

 

Friday: FP1, Sprint race (grid set by reverse points)

Saturday: FP2, Qualifying

Sunday: GP

 

That format alleviates many of the obvious problems with the new one just agreed to. It makes too much sense, so there's zero chance it'll ever happen in F1.

Edited by AustinF1, 07 April 2023 - 19:20.

[dweller23]

Saturday is going to be very thin. A 20-30 minute qualifying session followed by a 30 minute sprint!

Very bad value for venues that host F1 sprint but almost no feeder series (if there are cases like that), because it will likely drive people away from purchasing full weekend tickets and just settle for the Sunday tickets.

[jacdaniel]

I really don't get the incentive for the smaller teams in these sprint races.

In the main race there will usually be some DNFs and incidents etc that may allow them to fight for the points.

Highly unlikely in a short race. And it doesn't even set the grid for Sunday so they'll probably just be cruising and saving the car for Sunday.

I think the same applies to any big team that have a poor qualifying for the sprint. If you have to start from the back you are not going to get points in 20 laps or so. Might as well just cruise.

Terrible format.

[ARTGP]

Very bad value for venues that host F1 sprint but almost no feeder series (if there are cases like that), because it will likely drive people away from purchasing full weekend tickets and just settle for the Sunday tickets.

 

An HOUR on Saturday (if even that)?  How did we go from 90 minute free practice and 60ish+ minutes of Qualifying to this. I bet the ticket prices are higher on Saturday now as well. 

Edited by ARTGP, 07 April 2023 - 19:32.

[AustinF1]

With every idiotic move they make, the chances of me ever wanting to attend another GP grow smaller and smaller ... sadly.