68 replies to this topic

[jimjimjeroo]

F1 bosses 'plotting MotoGP joint race weekend' with car and bikes on same track (msn.com)

 

often thought about this, but think IndyCar would be a better fit, but doubt they'd go for it!

[Neno]

Why should by far superior racing organization wanted to be dragged and compared with F1. MotoGP stayed true to their legacy being first motorsport while other one went become circus show.

[thefinalapex]

At ziggo racecafe they were discussing this idea aswell with Wilco Zeelenberg(became champion as teammanager with Lorenzo) and he said its not a great idea as the rubber laid down by the different compounds over a weekend would make the track very slippery. Motogp uses Michelins tyres and F1 Pirelli’s.

[Dolph]

At ziggo racecafe they were discussing this idea aswell with Wilco Zeelenberg(became champion as teammanager with Lorenzo) and he said its not a great idea as the rubber laid down by the different compounds over a weekend would make the track very slippery. Motogp uses Michelins tyres and F1 Pirelli’s.

 

They'll just run it in the opposite direction and the different compounds will cancel out.

[RedRabbit]

And who gets the pitboxes? Fitting 3 classes of bikes and F1 crews into the facilities sounds like a great idea. 😐

There's clearly no limit to the stupidity of F1 bosses.

[Beri]

And who gets the pitboxes? Fitting 3 classes of bikes and F1 crews into the facilities sounds like a great idea.

There's clearly no limit to the stupidity of F1 bosses.

 

Works fine for F2, F3 and other suport races as well in, lets say, Monaco. Doesnt it?

[RedRabbit]

Works fine for F2, F3 and other suport races as well in, lets say, Monaco. Doesnt it?

F1 gets the main pit garages, the support series slum it round back. You reckon MotoGP are going to slum it round back while F1 get the front garages?

[monolulu]

Perhaps not on track at the same time   
 

https://www.youtube....h?v=COpGcEiyo-A
 

 

[PayasYouRace]

F1 gets the main pit garages, the support series slum it round back. You reckon MotoGP are going to slum it round back while F1 get the front garages?

Actually the ideal venue would be one with two pit lanes. Silverstone or Abu Dhabi spring immediately to mind.

Though if they have to share then priority should go to the series that actually makes pit stops.

[Risil]

Could MotoGP go Friday-Saturday lunchtime and then F1 do Saturday afternoon-Sunday? Do the two programmes need to run concurrently?

[Risil]

Ezpaleta raises what the key issues will be for MotoGP -- clashing sponsors and differing safety requirements. Bikes and cars don't crash in the same way and safety features demanded by one series could make the other less safe.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Don't see the point in this, really. If you want to see a car event you go to a car event. If you want to see motorcycles, you go to a motorcycle event. If you like both, you do both.

 

Obviously it would attract in enough people though, allowing them to charge extortionate amounts. I'd be fine with it as long as it didn't make a current GP even harder to attend, for example Silverstone (as previously mentioned) would be ideal with the national pits and the GP pits. It would be a nightmare if the MotoGP was also to take place on the F1 weekend though.

 

Maybe a good idea for a Middle-Eastern GP though, where attendances could do with a pick-up.

[ARTGP]

Joint grand prix incoming. 

Edited by ARTGP, 12 April 2023 - 15:38.

[LolaB0860]

Macau GP has never had issues with single seaters, motorbikes, touring cars and sports cars all racing the same track on same weekend, so let's not pretend that this is unique and something that cannot be done if they actually wanted. The tire thing is just an excuse too.

 

As for the pitlane dilemma when you have two headliner series instead of one headliner followed by support series - well rather than try to jam everything together on some boring medium sized Spanish circuit, they should find a pitlane that can actually hold both. And one example that comes to mind is Spa which has the normal pits + Spa 24h bits. Plus the circuits has made recent modifications for motorcycles.

 

Domenicalli has been presenting many horrible, awful, stupid suggestions recently, but this actually isn't bad.

Edited by LolaB0860, 12 April 2023 - 15:44.

[Risil]

Sepang could be a good fit, with a night race for F1 on Sunday evening.

[Stephane]

Which track would be dumb enough to pay for two series but have only one weekend of revenue ?

[LolaB0860]

Sepang could be a good fit, with a night race for F1 on Sunday evening.

 

I've come to loathe words "night race" when paired up with F1

 

Anyway, they don't have money

https://www.thevibes...ucture-upgrades

“F1 is very expensive. We had to wait for RM20 million from the government just to upgrade the track. If we could host an F1 race we would already have done it, but for now, we can’t afford to have the races."

[highdownforce]

WEC and IMSA (used to) share Sebring.
IMSA and Indycar share Long Beach (this weekend!!!)

Macau weekend has multiple series.

National series for instance, should being doing the same.

[noikeee]

Macau GP has never had issues with single seaters, motorbikes, touring cars and sports cars all racing the same track on same weekend, so let's not pretend that this is unique and something that cannot be done if they actually wanted. The tire thing is just an excuse too.

They "never had issues" other than a dead rider every other year or so.

[PayasYouRace]

Ezpaleta raises what the key issues will be for MotoGP -- clashing sponsors and differing safety requirements. Bikes and cars don't crash in the same way and safety features demanded by one series could make the other less safe.

This is where I imagine a venue like Silverstone would be best. I can’t imagine there are too many physical changes they make when the bikes show up.

[Beri]

They "never had issues" other than a dead rider every other year or so.

 
Totally irrelevant to the discussion whether there are pit facilities enough to house F1 and MotoGP.
 
But I think what PAYR said is worth looking into; Having a go at a track where two pitlanes are available. Silverstone would be an absolute cracker, I'd say. Having 200k of people on race day to see two premier racing classes going at it, that is what this idea deserves. Opposed to doing this in Abu Dhabi in front of 40k of people.

[noikeee]

 
Totally irrelevant to the discussion whether there are pit facilities enough to house F1 and MotoGP.
 
But I think what PAYR said is worth looking into; Having a go at a track where two pitlanes are available. Silverstone would be an absolute cracker, I'd say. Having 200k of people on race day to see two premier racing classes going at it, that is what this idea deserves. Opposed to doing this in Abu Dhabi in front of 40k of people.

 

Relevant to the discussion considering that bikes and cars need different safety features in a track. Pit facilities is a different question.

 

Obviously Macau is an extreme example because the walls and rails being so close are totally unsuitable and extremely dangerous for bikes. In a conventional circuit you don't have this extreme problem, however some kinds of runoffs are more suitable to cars than bikes and vice-versa.

Edited by noikeee, 13 April 2023 - 09:16.

[Beri]

Still not very relevant as I think that opting for the safest option for MotoGP will be likely safer than anything else for F1.

[PayasYouRace]

Relevant to the discussion considering that bikes and cars need different safety features in a track. Pit facilities is a different question.

Obviously Macau is an extreme example because the walls and rails being so close are totally unsuitable and extremely dangerous for bikes. In a conventional circuit you don't have this extreme problem, however some kinds of runoffs are more suitable to cars than bikes and vice-versa.

Would you please explain, for circuits that host both series, what changes are made between race weekends for safety.

Silverstone, COTA, Red Bull Ring, Barcelona, etc.

[Dolph]

I propose the races take place at Silverstone simultaneously with the F1 cars running the International layout:

 

And the bikes run the national layout:

 

 

P.S. I'm not saying this is a good idea.

Edited by Dolph, 13 April 2023 - 09:37.

[ArnageWRC]

No thanks! It screams of Dorna trying to hang on to the coat tails of F1/Liberty as they've messed up/ ran out of ideas to grow their sport. MotoGP/FIM really need to fire Dorna out of a cannon and into the Med.....

[Beri]

Would you please explain, for circuits that host both series, what changes are made between race weekends for safety.

Silverstone, COTA, Red Bull Ring, Barcelona, etc.

 
Motor racing often sees some form of a air cushion wall as an extra added safety measure in front of guard rails, tecpro- or tire walls. I dont actually know if MotoGP uses them. But I can imagine these sorts of safety measures are meant by Noikeee. But then again, having them installed does not make it less safe for F1. So hence I did already say that the safest option for MotoGP is even safer for F1.

I propose the races take place at Silverstone simultaneously with the F1 cars running the International layout:

 
And the bikes run the national layout:

 
 
P.S. I'm not saying this is a good idea.

 
And deprive us from seeing cars and bikes going through Maggots and Becketts? Not a good idea indeed 

[Spillage]

Great for the fans at the track! I've no idea how this works practically though.

[PayasYouRace]

I propose the races take place at Silverstone simultaneously with the F1 cars running the International layout:


And the bikes run the national layout:



P.S. I'm not saying this is a good idea.

Looks fun to me.

[PayasYouRace]

Motor racing often sees some form of a air cushion wall as an extra added safety measure in front of guard rails, tecpro- or tire walls. I dont actually know if MotoGP uses them. But I can imagine these sorts of safety measures are meant by Noikeee. But then again, having them installed does not make it less safe for F1. So hence I did already say that the safest option for MotoGP is even safer for F1.

This is why I want Noikeee to provide their answer because they seem so sure. It comes down to how quickly these measures can be swapped around as to how viable it would be to share a weekend.

[Disgrace]

Which track would be dumb enough to pay for two series but have only one weekend of revenue ?

 

One where revenue doesn't matter I suppose, i.e. somewhere like Qatar in the Middle East.

[MasterOfCoin]

Ticket prices will go through the roof for this event....

[Mosrite]

No comment, but it will be interesting when the rain red flags the whole event and the rest of it will just be dangerous. It's either a train wreck waiting to happen or it will be 'manipulated' for show and safety

[Clatter]

Totally irrelevant to the discussion whether there are pit facilities enough to house F1 and MotoGP.

But I think what PAYR said is worth looking into; Having a go at a track where two pitlanes are available. Silverstone would be an absolute cracker, I'd say. Having 200k of people on race day to see two premier racing classes going at it, that is what this idea deserves. Opposed to doing this in Abu Dhabi in front of 40k of people.

F2 currently use the garages in the old pits. Would they be kicked out for the bikes?

Edited by Clatter, 13 April 2023 - 14:52.

[PayasYouRace]

F2 currently use the garages in the old pits. Would they be kicked out for the bikes?

I wouldn’t have thought F2 would be present at a joint event.

Still, F2 could do what they do at every other Grand Prix.

[AustinF1]

F1 gets the main pit garages, the support series slum it round back. You reckon MotoGP are going to slum it round back while F1 get the front garages?

Yeah at COTA, for example, F1 moves in and completely takes over the Garages, the Paddock, and its parking lot early in the week. So that would leave the 'Support Paddock' as the only place for MotoGP, Moto2, Moto3, and any other support series that might come with F1. The COTA Support Paddock is simply a large paved lot out between the esses and the T12 Grandstand. There is no electrical service, no water lines, no restrooms, no comms service, and no shade. Bring your own. I'm sure all the MotoGP, 2, and 3 folks would be delighted to be relegated to that area rather than their usual Paddock and Garage surroundings.

 

Edited by AustinF1, 13 April 2023 - 17:20.

[Clatter]

I wouldn’t have thought F2 would be present at a joint event.

Still, F2 could do what they do at every other Grand Prix.

So dumping the feeder series for moto GP?

[noikeee]

This is why I want Noikeee to provide their answer because they seem so sure. It comes down to how quickly these measures can be swapped around as to how viable it would be to share a weekend.

I "seem so sure"? What's that about mate? I'm certainly no expert, I just vaguely remember a few discussions a couple years ago about runoff types, and some modifications over the years for some tracks to suit bikes, I think bikes prefer certain rather runoffs over others, IIRC they find gravel traps dangerous and prefer tarmac. There was recently that controversy about gravel traps at Portimão that riders disliked and Dorna were threatening not to return to the track unless they were redesigned.

Just saying it's something to consider. Maybe it might be an issue in some circuits, maybe not.

[PayasYouRace]

I "seem so sure"? What's that about mate? I'm certainly no expert, I just vaguely remember a few discussions a couple years ago about runoff types, and some modifications over the years for some tracks to suit bikes, I think bikes prefer certain rather runoffs over others, IIRC they find gravel traps dangerous and prefer tarmac. There was recently that controversy about gravel traps at Portimão that riders disliked and Dorna were threatening not to return to the track unless they were redesigned.

Just saying it's something to consider. Maybe it might be an issue in some circuits, maybe not.

It’s about finding a reason why circuits that do host both types of racing would not be able to do so on the same weekend. You seemed to have an answer.

[Primo]

Works fine for F2, F3 and other suport races as well in, lets say, Monaco. Doesnt it?

And when should F2 & F3 race? But I guess if all of them just get 1 FP, it'd be possible to squaeeze it all in. I would not like it though, it would be distracting and diminish them both since we'd to switch mindset all the time and never get a bathroom break.

[LolaB0860]

So dumping the feeder series for moto GP?

What do you mean 'dumping'? Assuming they'd even be there they'd just be relocated somewhere in the paddock just like all other F1 support series do anyway. And obviously MotoGP would take priority over Dallara spec feeder series

V8 Supercars just lost support carage and paddock space to F2 and F3 in Melbourne, that's the way it is

Edited by LolaB0860, 13 April 2023 - 15:48.

[PayasYouRace]

So dumping the feeder series for moto GP?

The article in the OP doesn’t say, but it does make it sound like it would be a specially organised event, so there’s no assumption of the F1 support series being present. F2 and F3 don’t follow F1 around everywhere.

[LolaB0860]

And when should F2 & F3 race? But I guess if all of them just get 1 FP, it'd be possible to squaeeze it all in. I would not like it though, it would be distracting and diminish them both since we'd to switch mindset all the time and never get a bathroom break.

You do realize that many motor racing events have far more support races and other track sessions than F1 does and they survive just fine with it?

And the GP with most support action, Australia, had 12 races + other demonstrations, which is more than F1+F2+F3+MotoGP would result in

+ as said F2 and F3 aren't there every race anyway, same for Porsche Supercup

Edited by LolaB0860, 13 April 2023 - 15:54.

[uzsjgb]

I think bikes prefer certain rather runoffs over others, IIRC they find gravel traps dangerous and prefer tarmac

 

It's the other way around. Just look at all the gravel removed from F1 tracks in the past decades. Spa had to add gravel to the track to be able to host motorcycle races. A person sliding along the ground doesn't have brakes, asphalt would hardly slow them down. You have to get this person slowed down, before they hit the barriers. With cars, hitting the barrier is not such a big problem.

 

With much safer cars the FIA seems to be allowing less safer circuits - Mugello with gravel traps and hardly any asphalt run-off, Spa with gravel traps instead of asphalt run-offs. At least these two tracks could be a common venue. What may be a problem is how the gravel is raked. Cars need ruts, motorcycles need a smooth surface. Ruts were a contributing factor to Wayne Rainey's injury.

[Primo]

You do realize that many motor racing events have far more support races and other track sessions than F1 does and they survive just fine with it?

And the GP with most support action, Australia, had 12 races + other demonstrations, which is more than F1+F2+F3+MotoGP would result in

Tell me about their duration, the practice time and how many that was televised? MotoGP also have Moto2 and Moto3 and they are even more integrated in the "show" than F2 and F3.

[Risil]

I "seem so sure"? What's that about mate? I'm certainly no expert, I just vaguely remember a few discussions a couple years ago about runoff types, and some modifications over the years for some tracks to suit bikes, I think bikes prefer certain rather runoffs over others, IIRC they find gravel traps dangerous and prefer tarmac. There was recently that controversy about gravel traps at Portimão that riders disliked and Dorna were threatening not to return to the track unless they were redesigned.

Just saying it's something to consider. Maybe it might be an issue in some circuits, maybe not.

 

Different kerbs too, and occasionally MotoGP uses different corner profiles. I would expect some barriers get moved but don't have any video evidence to back that up.

 

F1 is pursuing a strategy where it holds more and more races at circuits where safety standards aren't good enough for bikes, so it's a little odd to see this story come up.

 

None of this is insurmountable but there are surprisingly few circuits that are a good candidate for a joint weekend. Depressingly Qatar immediately sprung to my mind. I wonder if MotoGP could go back to Imola.

[Beri]

And when should F2 & F3 race? But I guess if all of them just get 1 FP, it'd be possible to squaeeze it all in. I would not like it though, it would be distracting and diminish them both since we'd to switch mindset all the time and never get a bathroom break.

As said before, I reckon this event will be a one of a kind without (many) support races.

[pRy]

Sounds like someone saw UFC and WWE combine and thought "Hey! We could do that!".

[AustinF1]

Sounds like something from the brain of Sean Bratches ... but it seems Domenicali is the new Bratches.

[LolaB0860]

Tell me about their duration, the practice time and how many that was televised? MotoGP also have Moto2 and Moto3 and they are even more integrated in the "show" than F2 and F3.

 

All of those races were televised

 

F1

FP1 60 min

FP2 60 min

FP3 60 min

Q1 18 min

Q2 15 min

Q3 12 min

GP 300km or 120 min (within 3 hour window)

 

F2

FP 45 min

Q 30 min

R1 120km or 45 min

R2 170km or 60 min

 

F3

FP 45 min

Q 30 min

R1 105km or 40 min

R2 121km or 45 min

 

Supercars

FP1 30 min

FP2 30 min

Q1 15 min

Q2 15 min

R1 116km or 45 min

R2 90km or 35 min

Q3 15 min

Q4 15 min

R3 74km or 30 min

R4 74km or 30 min

 

Australian Carrera Cup

FP 30 min

Q 30 min

R1 79km or 40 min

R2 68km or 35 min

R3 68km or 35 min

Edited by LolaB0860, 13 April 2023 - 17:42.