16 replies to this topic

[tonyed]

Razgatlioglu leaves Yamaha for probably BMW - can anyone recount other such sporting suicides?

[Risil]

Valentino Rossi to Yamaha 

[brands77]

Anyone to the Marlboro Team Agostini other than Roberts or Lawson, so including but not limited to: Graham Crosby, Virginio Ferrari, Raymond Roche, Rob Mac, Didier De Radigues, Niall Mackenzie .....

Edited by brands77, 22 May 2023 - 17:55.

[billlawrence]

Peter Williams staying with Norton 

[GregThomas]

Les Graham to MV  (at that point in their history)

[Michael Ferner]

Oh, I don't know. AJS were hanging on in there, and MV wasn't yet up to their ultimate speed, but the writing was on the wall. AJS were about to win their last 500cc GP, with MV opening their account a little later - Les very nearly won the championship in his first year with Italy!

[billlawrence]

Derek Minter thrashing the works Honda team 1962 250 cc TT didnt do him much good 

[tonyed]

Derek Minter thrashing the works Honda team 1962 250 cc TT didnt do him much good 

He was 'advised' by Honda not to win. Silly boy. 

[Michael Ferner]

Luigi Taveri thrashing the works Honda team in the 125cc TT two years later earned him a second stint as a works rider. Maybe Derek did something else, like insulting Mrs. Honda?

[billlawrence]

yes told to move over and not get in the way .You didnt say that to Minter 

[Michael Ferner]

So, was being Derek Minter his biggest problem? I didn't know that.

 

How about Mick Grant and Honda? Geoff Duke to BMW? Eddie Lawson to Marlboro Roberts?

[tonyed]

So, was being Derek Minter his biggest problem? I didn't know that.

 

How about Mick Grant and Honda? Geoff Duke to BMW? Eddie Lawson to Marlboro Roberts?

I don't think that 'being Derek Minter' was Dereks 'problem'. I don't call racing to win a 'problem'.

If you didn't race to win, why race?

The only problem with not racing to win is if you are toadying up to the likes of Honda and will do anything for a works seat.

It didn't do Hailwood any harm when he threw parts of the test Honda into the lake and said just get some good bits.

I am of the opinion that Minter was every bit the equal of Hailwood and he was bloody good.

Derek made a good living racing in this country why go 'foreign' and end up out of pocket, not a very 'professional' outlook if it's racing that puts cake on your table.   

 

Grant went down the Honda road because it was Honda, who let's face it produced as much crap as they did decent machinery and that continues today.

 

Geoff Duke and BMW, I think it was Dukes allegiance to the lot of the Privateers and his subsequent ban which led to this.

 

Perhaps you can say with Lawson on the Roberts Yamaha going back to Yamaha as the NSR 500 Honda was on the rise after winning on the NSR the previous year might not have been the best move, career wise, but then again who would want to ride for the 'Evil Empire' when a ride with a 'decent' manufacturer was on offer, even if it resulted at being cursed and sworn at by Lenny Robot.        

[Michael Ferner]

I never heard anything bad said about Minter, but "You didnt say that to Minter " sounds like he was a bit full of himself. Of course, racing to win is not a problem, as you can see with Taveri (same team, just a couple years later). This was before my time, and my impression was always that Minter was bloody good, but if you say he was making a good living racing at home perhaps he wasn't interested in racing for Honda. But then, it was hardly 'sporting suicide', was it?

 

As for Duke, yes, of course he was already on the slippery slope before he joined BMW, and perhaps his heart wasn't in it, but then he won both races in Sweden a week after leaving BMW, just to show he could still do it. And I think the injury in '57 hurt him more than the ban in '56.

 

As for Lawson, all true what you say but his greenhorn team mate won the World Championship that year, and the next, aaaand the next... on the same Yamaha, and for the same team! I bet Eddie didn't expect that, and all that was left for him was to go to Cagiva. 

[brands77]

Eddie was injured for that first season with the Marlboro Roberts Team, he only effectively did the second half of the season.

I would have said the move to Cagiva was did for him, but even then when he stopped in 1991 and missed the final 2 races he and Kocinski who replaced him at Team Roberts were only 2 points apart. Kocinski went to finish 4th and 1st in the final 2 GPs which Eddie missed and that pretty much accounted for the difference in their points total in 1991. In 1992 it was different, and Kocinski finished much higher up in the table, although they both won a single GP that year. Eddie at Cagiva and Kocinski on the Yamaha.

Having said that Kocinski did pretty well on the Cagiva when he got on it for 1993 and 1994 after Eddie had left.

Speaking of Kocinski, I think he had his fair few possible career suicide moments from which others may not have recovered, but which he did. Deliberately blowing up the Suzuki in 1992 must be up there with them, but then Vinales did the same and he did ok after that too, so maybe there is something in it as a strategy.

[tonyed]

Deliberately damaging someone elses property is criminal damage. The 'Not Oil' protestors who spread orange powder on the rugby pitch at the weekends final face up to ten years in prison for this.

Possibly the best place for both Little John and Vinales. 

[brands77]

Little John was by all accounts a bit "different". Reportedly had OCD about cleanliness and other quirks. However, both he and Vinales have shown a very single minded and determined approach to getting out of rides they didn't fancy seeing their contract through on. Maverick probably much more so than Little John.

[tonyed]

The story of Kocinski coming in after a session asking 'Hey who's this guy Abe'? pronounced as in the shortened version of the name Abraham.

It was Norick Abe! Bless him.

Now apparently a very wealthy property developer.