37 replies to this topic

[Boxerevo]

Help me here to know, who will be this might driver that will rule Formula 1 one day with his skills, the next generational talent.

 

So i can know and see he him rising on the ranks.

 

I was kid and i saw Senna and Schumacher, i grew up and behold there was and is Alonso and Hamilton, now i am older and i see Verstappen.

 

Who is the next one?

Edited by Boxerevo, 22 May 2023 - 18:26.

[JHSingo]

Andrea Kimi Antonelli, probably.

 

Given I've been kindly recently reminded about my posts on this very forum about Verstappen before he entered F1, I'm not going to say anything this time around.   But there does seem to be quite a lot of hype about that kid.

 

And hi to anyone reading this thread in nine years' time! 

[ClubmanGT]

Lawson has won in almost everything he's stepped into. He's 21, he almost won the DTM on debut and now he's gone to Superformula and is proving worthy against an established champion.

 

I'm not saying he will, but I'm saying he could. 

[ARTGP]

Lawson has won in almost everything he's stepped into. He's 21, he almost won the DTM on debut and now he's gone to Superformula and is proving worthy against an established champion.

 

I'm not saying he will, but I'm saying he could. 

 

It's odd that Marko is stalling him though...

[eibyyz]

Help me here to know, who will be this might driver that will rule Formula 1 one day with his skills, the next generational talent.

 

So i can know and see he him rising on the ranks.

 

I was kid and i saw Senna and Schumacher, i grew up and behold there was and is Alonso and Hamilton, now i am older and i see Verstappen.

 

Who is the next one?

 

I don't think there'll be another 'boy wonder'.  The cars mean so much to the package, and the costs are (still) so high that no one would trust an RB, for example, to the flavor-of-the-month.

[PlatenGlass]

Is it already too late for Oscar Piastri?

[ARTGP]

I don't think there'll be another 'boy wonder'. The cars mean so much to the package, and the costs are (still) so high that no one would trust an RB, for example, to the flavor-of-the-month.

They can still be spotted from F3 and F2 though. At that point they get fast tracked into winning teams.

Edited by ARTGP, 22 May 2023 - 19:20.

[tyker]

It's odd that Marko is stalling him though...

I would say he had 2 mediocre years in F2.

[uzsjgb]

It's odd that Marko is stalling him though...

 

It's weird that Lawson is still in Red Bull's ranks. They obviously don't think he's good enough for Formula One. Iwasa will get promoted to Alpha Tauri and Red Bull have a competent reserve driver with Ricciardo. There really is no place for Lawson with Red Bull. No other team has shown an interest in him.

 

Lawson is the sort of driver, like Drugovich, whose career might look good on paper, but who, under normal circumstances, will never get a seat in Formula One.

[Beri]

Freddie Slater anyone?

[aray]

Yeah! Lawson's lackluster F2 outing pretty much sealed his fate. Though he may get a De Vries like comeback in future.
Norris and Russel are already good enough to be next phenomenon if given the right car. I guess Piastri may also have similar ceiling.
Outside F1 and in junior categories Andrea Kimi Antonelli is the biggest prospect as of now. But I don't think he would make the grid before 2026.

[southernstars]

Is it already too late for Oscar Piastri?

 

No, as long as he gets out of McLaren and into a better team quickly, namely at the end of next year. That would move him up the grid as soon as possible, and get him out of McLaren before his driving style becomes too ingrained in the screwed up mess that is that McLaren.

[ClubmanGT]

It's weird that Lawson is still in Red Bull's ranks. They obviously don't think he's good enough for Formula One. Iwasa will get promoted to Alpha Tauri and Red Bull have a competent reserve driver with Ricciardo. There really is no place for Lawson with Red Bull. No other team has shown an interest in him.

 

Lawson is the sort of driver, like Drugovich, whose career might look good on paper, but who, under normal circumstances, will never get a seat in Formula One.

 

Iwasa is having a much better 2023 so far, but up until this point he hasn't exactly been 'promote me to F1 immediately' material. 

 

The start he's had in F2 so far and Lawson cracking on in Superformula is perhaps an unexpected turn of events for AT - I'd venture they probably expected an either/or situation, but possibly not both.

[CoolBreeze]

How do you define 'phenomenon' in modern F1?

 

Most drivers are, if you put them into the most dominant car. There's hardly any overtakings, and if they are, there's a button to help them. The only skills i can see is, if they race in the rain, which in most cases they don't seem to be allowed to. 

[RedRabbit]

Whoever gets a Red Bull drive.

[JeePee]

Is it already too late for Oscar Piastri?

Yes.

 

He's a talent, but not a generational one.

[Ali623]

How do you define 'phenomenon' in modern F1?

 

Most drivers are, if you put them into the most dominant car. There's hardly any overtakings, and if they are, there's a button to help them. The only skills i can see is, if they race in the rain, which in most cases they don't seem to be allowed to. 

 

Someone who is a cut above the rest basically, it's pretty obvious when someone like that comes around. Of this generation, it's clearly Verstappen, maybe Leclerc. 

[uzsjgb]

Iwasa is having a much better 2023 so far, but up until this point he hasn't exactly been 'promote me to F1 immediately' material. 

 

The start he's had in F2 so far and Lawson cracking on in Superformula is perhaps an unexpected turn of events for AT - I'd venture they probably expected an either/or situation, but possibly not both.

 

The difference is "potential". I think potential is what teams look for. Iwasa getting better in his second F2 year signals more potential than Lawson doing it now in Superformula.

 

I think it is easily misleading to judge a driver by their results. They have to be judged by their driving. For example, Iwasa finished his first F2 race in 8th place, a mediocre result. But he started last, making this an excellent drive.

[Myrvold]

It's odd that Marko is stalling him though...

 

Lack of F2&F3 titles.

[jjcale]

Piastri ... I am still waiting to see what the hype was about ....

[Rigoletto]

I heard Sebastian Montoya is looking pretty tasty, recently joined Red Bull.

[aray]

As of now kid Montoya showed nothing special though.

[Clrnc]

Andrea Kimi Antonelli, probably.

 

Given I've been kindly recently reminded about my posts on this very forum about Verstappen before he entered F1, I'm not going to say anything this time around.   But there does seem to be quite a lot of hype about that kid.

 

And hi to anyone reading this thread in nine years' time! 

Tim Tramnitz looks more impressive for me 

 

I like Oli Bearman though. I think him and Pouchaire has the best raw speed in junior category currently 

Edited by Clrnc, 23 May 2023 - 13:47.

[tyker]

I heard Sebastian Montoya is looking pretty tasty, recently joined Red Bull.

He's getting totally put performed by his teammate Gabrielle Mini who this year got signed up by the Alpine Academy.

 

Andrea Kimi Antonelli certainly looks a big talent but I would be a bit late in the game to flag either driver up, William Hunt brought these drivers to our attention last year.

[tyker]

Tim Tramnitz looks more impressive for me 

 

I like Oli Bearman though. I think him and Pouchaire has the best raw speed in junior category currently 

Tim Tramitz is a second year driver in FRECA and did little last year so hard to say he's been more impressive than the rookie Antonelli.

 

Bearman is starting to look impressive in F2, Pouchaire is in his 3rd season but is still very young so it might not count against him.

[PlatenGlass]

Piastri ... I am still waiting to see what the hype was about ....

 

Primarily it was because he won the F3 and F2 championships in consecutive years in his debut season in each.

[Spillage]

Weirdly I think the cream has already risen to the top - probably the best five drivers are Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton , Russell and Alonso and they're in fast machinery already. 

 

I guess Norris and Piastri are the guys with the potential to join that group, I think both have more to do to prove that though.

Edited by Spillage, 23 May 2023 - 14:24.

[Alfisti]

Is it already too late for Oscar Piastri?

Time wise no but even as an aussie he seems more Button than Senna so to speak. Thinking man's driver, if there's a CC to be won, he will deliver it but I don't think he has that last tenth in him. 

[Alfisti]

How do you define 'phenomenon' in modern F1?

 

Most drivers are, if you put them into the most dominant car. There's hardly any overtakings, and if they are, there's a button to help them. The only skills i can see is, if they race in the rain, which in most cases they don't seem to be allowed to. 

 

You know it when you see it. They also announce themselves quite early. For example, no one on the grid can become the next freak other than Piastri but as above, i don't think he is that guy. We're talking freaks here, not "very, very good F1 drivers". We have three on the grid, with two of them on the older side. Norris, Russel and Pisastri are brilliant young drivers but if they were Hamiltons, Maxs or Schumachers.... you'd have seen it by now. 

[ClubmanGT]

I think it is easily misleading to judge a driver by their results. They have to be judged by their driving. For example, Iwasa finished his first F2 race in 8th place, a mediocre result. But he started last, making this an excellent drive.

 

I mean... Lawson won on F2 debut, so there's not much really more that can be said if that's your chosen metric. Granted, not a drive through the field, but at that point there isn't much more to be said about driving if you just show up and win. 

 

I do feel F2 is quite difficult to judge as some drivers have had the benefit of some impressive team support (that run of ART made everyone else look decidedly average, regardless of how good they were) - and some come into the series blazing away and then you just see less and less of them. Stanaway was an example of this. I'm a big fan of Pourchaire but the Ticktum incident seemed pretty disruptive for him - you wouldn't hold that against him either.

 

But let's also remember that someone who can almost win the DTM on debut as a twenty year old, and then pivot back to single-seaters is probably not something you see very often. Perhaps Lawson has had a bit too much on at times in terms of scheduling to the detriment of his F2 results, but there's definitely an abnormal level of talent there.  

[PayasYouRace]

Who were the F1 Phenomena and when were they first identified as such?

[balage06]

I'd choose Lawson over Iwasa anyday, he is an oldschool agressive driver who knows how to race properly

 

 

Iwasa lacks everything a competent F1 driver needs, except for consistency. Never seen such an average-looking driver getting so much hype around here.

[noikeee]

Who were the F1 Phenomena and when were they first identified as such?

 

Max was getting hype here since his karting days. Then the hype exploded in his maiden cars season, which he did in F3 (a brave choice, a couple levels above what a driver straight out of karting would normally pick). You can get a window into this era in that 2014 thread people dug up, when he got the call to replace Vergne at Toro Rosso.

 

Norris had a wee bit of hype a couple years later. We started reading stuff about him here in the forums when he was already driving in Ginettas in the UK, at the age of 14 IIRC. Then he moved up very quickly and won F3 as a rookie, it was clear he was going to be good and was bound for F1 and possibly to be a star there. Not sure whether we can already call him a "phenomena" since he hasn't won a race yet, perhaps that's pushing it, I just wanted to mention him because of how early the hype about him was.

 

Leclerc showed up slightly under the radar compared to these guys, but a very competitive rookie F3 season caught a bit of the eye, then he quickly won GP3 and GP2 in succession. So this was a guy that came into attention a touch later in his career than the 2 above and I think there were still some doubts about him when coming into F1, although it was clear he was talented.

 

Russell is up there with the other guys of this current generation so has to be mentioned, but I think he was the one that went under the radar the most. Not much of a name into F3, good but not outstanding performance there (Leclerc had shone more), but then the GP3 and F2 titles in succession suddenly cemented his name, specially given he just about beat Norris in GP2/F2. So basically it was like, nobody expected that much of him, until right about when he had already signed for Williams, which was the moment people started taking him seriously due to the F2 season.

 

Earlier than that we're going to have to go to the years I was entering the forums. Vettel has to get a mention because although his stock has fallen in recent years, he did win 4 championships. He was another guy that was clear from the beginning was going to be good, but his performance seemed to be a touch hit and miss through the categories. IIRC he won like 19 out of 20 Formula BMW races (this was a category similar-ish to F4 now) and that made him stand out immediately, and he got I think a Williams F1 test already at the age of 16 or something, so he was known in F1 circles by then already. Formula 3 was a bit more average though, he got beat by Di Resta marginally and that made people doubt him. Up to FR3.5 (World Series by Renault) and he immediately won on debut *midseason*, which was extraordinary, and he was dominating the next year when he got the callup to F1.

 

Before him obviously Hamilton. When I joined the forums in 2006 he was already in F2 totally dominating the season on his rookie year, and it was clear he was going to be big, but rewinding, digging up old old posts, I think he had a similar hype to the likes of Max and Norris, already pinned down as a future star in karting days and in the early junior formula days.

 

Nico Rosberg had a name from the beginning because, obviously, he was the son of a champion, but I think people kinda didn't take him seriously enough because of that. I still remember everyone being super adamant Kovalainen was more impressive than him even when Nico had won GP2 as a rookie at that level. It was only after maybe his F1 debut race in which he posted the fastest lap, that people started thinking this guy was actually above average.

 

Kimi was a crazy one, he was totally unheard of, but was doing something special in his first FR2.0 starts (another category similar-ish to F4), someone put him on a F1 car on a test and he went crazy fast. So he went from complete nobody into the absolute next big thing in like 2 months.

 

---

 

My take on the kids around right now: Antonelli is the first guy that reminds me of the hype around Max and Norris since then. First kid after those 2, that we've been hearing about "he's gonna be amazing" since his karting days AND proven to be fast once he took the step up to cars. Higher up there's lots of talented drivers, many already mentioned here, Piastri, Pourchaire, Bearman, Martins, Mini, Beganovic, Lawson, etc... but they're most likely all merely "just" very talented, instead of the super next big thing. Piastri obviously did what Russell and Leclerc did (F3-F2 rookie titles), but his start to F1 so far hasn't been crazy hot (although it's super early days and I think he's been made to look far worse than he is due to the **** car).

Edited by noikeee, 23 May 2023 - 22:29.

[Alfisti]

Most of those guys are very good but not phenomenal. Since I've been watching there's been the following;

Senna
Michael
Alonso
Lewis
Max

Seb on paper belongs there but Jesus h, there's something missing.

Lando, Russell, leclerc are out. They may all be WDC but they will not be in that league. These guys don't do what lando did in Russia, they also don't effectively tie with Carlos sainz. Those guys above don't bin it in the lead like leclerc has and those guys would step into the car against a near 40byear old Lewis and in qualifying at least, would be well on top.

[southernstars]

Piastri ... I am still waiting to see what the hype was about ....

He put the garbage car he's driving into Q3 before it was expected to make it there, outqualified his heavily hyped teammate, scored points, has made up places off the start multiple times, kept pace with aforementioned heavily hyped teammate while very sick, had multiple clean wheel to wheel battles with more experienced drivers including a seven time WDC and a battle with another driver through the narrow streets of Baku while sick, and he hasn't crashed once.

All of this while driving a bloody tractor.

What more do you want?

[ARTGP]

He put the garbage car he's driving into Q3 before it was expected to make it there, outqualified his heavily hyped teammate, scored points, has made up places off the start multiple times, kept pace with aforementioned heavily hyped teammate while very sick, had multiple clean wheel to wheel battles with more experienced drivers including a seven time WDC and a battle with another driver through the narrow streets of Baku while sick, and he hasn't crashed once.

All of this while driving a bloody tractor.

What more do you want?

Depending on who you ask, Lando is overrated. Lol.

[vlado]

Whoever gets to drive the faster car for 5+ years in a row. 

[dmj]

Antonelli surely looks as the best prospect for a future superstar – but on the other hand, he is Italian, and it makes me fairly suspicious, as that country over the decades generated so many great junior formulae drivers that somehow never managed to get it fully right in F1.

 

Out of current F2/F3 pack I prefer Martins (some sensational overtaking moves) and Pourchaire, but no one seems to be so much above the rest of the field as was Piastri.