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Concerns with weaving at Indianapolis


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#151 juicy sushi

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Posted 01 June 2023 - 18:19

I mean, there was one perceptive email to the Racer mailbag in the winter asking why the Indycar pitlane was separated from the track only by a very low wall when if anyone touched wheels on the front straight the potential for a car to be launched left, into the open pit boxes, was high.  

 

And the only answer was that yes, it will be an almighty tragedy when that happens, and changes will then occur, but since it hadn't happened yet, no one was looking at it as a problem.  



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#152 YamahaV10

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 17:45

Hinchcliff has a rant about it here

 

The short of it, he says it looks dumb amateurish and like a video game, like a bad iracing league. Going below the pit lane and coming back in a car that isn't designed to turn right is dangerous. 

 

https://twitter.com/...5255449601?s=20

 

And again, I don't think this should be dealt with by making new rules for the drivers. I think the speedway formula can be changed to make the dragon obsolete. 


Edited by YamahaV10, 02 June 2023 - 17:55.


#153 red stick

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 13:47

I think I'd take this topic more seriously if (1) aesthetics didn't seem such a major concern, and (2) there was some acknowledgement that MORE POWER creates its own issues, such as the threat of cars in the catch fence, etc. If referencing the complexity of an issue is still a thing. :cool:

Edited by red stick, 03 June 2023 - 13:59.


#154 BoDarvelle

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 14:02

If the drivers, teams, and owners are comfortable with what is going on I'm fine with it as well. I took my risks after assessing them when I decided to become an on course CART official. My family wasn't crazy about it, my girlfriend at the time wasn't crazy about it, and I knew that if anything ever went horribly wrong it was certainly a death sentence, but I chose to do it. As some here may know I got hit by a wheel at the 1986 Michigan 500, maybe one of the only people to have ever survived such a thing, anyway I went back. Those of us I guess that may have the heart of a racer understand it. It is freedom of choice.

 

Well said. People either forget, or ignore the fact, it is a choice.

 

Max has been very clear he won't race Indy as it is more dangerous than F1. Jimmy Johnson didn't run the ovals for a while. Plenty of others decline to race there and that is fine. It is their choice. Just like a lot of motorcycle racers won't run the TT.

 

I do fear the next death at Indy however as the safety virtue signalers will be melt down and attempt to force an emasculation of the race. Rodger may be strong enough to resist but he's in his 80's. So, enjoy the race while you can.



#155 AncientLurker

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 14:59

I do fear the next death at Indy however as the safety virtue signalers will be melt down and attempt to force an emasculation of the race. Rodger may be strong enough to resist but he's in his 80's. So, enjoy the race while you can.


How is telling the drivers not to needlessly race in the pit lane an emasculation of the race? If something goes wrong there and a car goes tumbling down pit lane and through some of the pit crew you can be assured it will have more serious repercussions on the race than stopping the use of the pit lane to try and beak the tow.

#156 Sterzo

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 15:11

How is telling the drivers not to needlessly race in the pit lane an emasculation of the race? If something goes wrong there and a car goes tumbling down pit lane and through some of the pit crew you can be assured it will have more serious repercussions on the race than stopping the use of the pit lane to try and beak the tow.

 

Absolutely agree, and I became disgruntled with both blocking and weaving way back in the seventies, not specifically at Indy, but anywhere. How does it add to the racing? It doesn't, it detracts from it. Way back when, there were certain etiquettes observed informally by most drivers. No-one will convince me that prevention of a fair overtake constitutes an improvement to the sport. Does the weaving sit easily with Newgarden (surely one of the cleaner drivers)? Doesn't sound like it.
 



#157 YamahaV10

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 18:34

Well said. People either forget, or ignore the fact, it is a choice.

 

Max has been very clear he won't race Indy as it is more dangerous than F1. Jimmy Johnson didn't run the ovals for a while. Plenty of others decline to race there and that is fine. It is their choice. Just like a lot of motorcycle racers won't run the TT.

 

I do fear the next death at Indy however as the safety virtue signalers will be melt down and attempt to force an emasculation of the race. Rodger may be strong enough to resist but he's in his 80's. So, enjoy the race while you can.

 

If turning right has become an integral part of the racing line at Indianapolis , then something is wrong with the formula. 



#158 B Squared

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 00:15

If turning right has become an integral part of the racing line at Indianapolis , then something is wrong with the formula.

Drivers have been passing on the outside in the groove for many years. Rick Mears made it quite famous with his late lap pass of Michael Andretti in 1991, he followed Michael down the straightaway then turned right to get on his outside to pass him on the outside line of turn one. So you're saying drivers can no longer turn right to pass on the outside and all passes must be attempted on the inside of a driver?

#159 red stick

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 00:45

Moreover, snaking down the straightaways has been part of tire preservation for years.  You complete the turn by moving to the inside, then drifting back to, yes, the right, to set up the next turn.  It's integral to the (checks notes) racing line.



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#160 B Squared

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 00:57

What do you think Mark, should they have sensors on the steering shaft and if you turn it to the right you get a drive-through penalty? Or better yet if you turn to the right, let's really make those rascally drivers suffer and have them lose power, yeah that'll teach them

#161 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 09:06

If turning right has become an integral part of the racing line at Indianapolis , then something is wrong with the formula. 

 

I think that's a very poor way of putting it, and replies by others show that.

 

What I will say is that if the apron and pit entry become an integral part of the racing line at Indianapolis, then there's something wrong with the rules and/or the circuit design.



#162 rghojai

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 19:25

Yeah. The domination there since he bought the series has been a sight to behold. :rolleyes:

 

Smart lawyers know that when someone has the ability to put their finger on the scale, it's wise to not be blatant, maintain some plausible deniability.



#163 YamahaV10

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 21:39

Moreover, snaking down the straightaways has been part of tire preservation for years. You complete the turn by moving to the inside, then drifting back to, yes, the right, to set up the next turn. It's integral to the (checks notes) racing line.

Lane changing minutia that happens over half the length of the straight doesn't count as turning right. Not in my books anyway. And it probably doesn't register on the G meter. The pit lane right turns they were doing in this race were most likely registering some G's.

Edited by YamahaV10, 04 June 2023 - 21:43.


#164 YamahaV10

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 21:43

Do we have the real time GPS data on the cars for Indy ?

#165 red stick

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 04:02

Lane changing minutia that happens over half the length of the straight doesn't count as turning right. Not in my books anyway. And it probably doesn't register on the G meter. The pit lane right turns they were doing in this race were most likely registering some G's.

O . . . . . . . . . . kay.  Carry on.   :rolleyes:



#166 loki

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 07:50

What do you think Mark, should they have sensors on the steering shaft and if you turn it to the right you get a drive-through penalty? Or better yet if you turn to the right, let's really make those rascally drivers suffer and have them lose power, yeah that'll teach them

I’m thinking shock collar.  



#167 red stick

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 12:29

I’m thinking shock collar.  

I've got to think Arie and Max occasionally dream about such a device.   :cool: