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2023 Spanish Gp - Race day


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#1001 AlexPrime

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 09:58

They should limit DRS 15 tines a race for example

Lovely idea! :clap:



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#1002 JimmyClark

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 10:35

They should limit DRS 15 tines a race for example


Yes I agree - I've been of the opinion for a while that they should be able to deploy when they want but for limited times (say 30% of number of laps). Then you can get defensive DRS too.

#1003 Roadhouse

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 10:49

I'd rather see them change DRS so it disengages once u get too close to your opponent. Activation delta should depend solely on the disadvantage of dirty air.

#1004 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 11:12

Defensive DRS is completely missing the point.

#1005 chrcol

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 11:16

I like Brundle's idea.

 

The problem with current system is it restricts part of track can be used which limits variables, and is also unlimited use as long as you are close enough to a car ahead.

 

Give set amount of use per race "and" allow it to be used anywhere.  Some drivers will use it in unexpected places for great fun.

 

Although this would advantage the leading car which is more likely able to use it all for defensive purposes.  So it isnt perfect.

 

I miss occasions where driver in slower car can successfully defend faster car.

 

Also wouldnt mind disabling of auto deactivation, to add further variables to the mix with driver mistakes.


Edited by chrcol, 05 June 2023 - 11:18.


#1006 BobbyRicky

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 11:27

I like Brundle's idea.

 

The problem with current system is it restricts part of track can be used which limits variables, and is also unlimited use as long as you are close enough to a car ahead.

 

Give set amount of use per race "and" allow it to be used anywhere.  Some drivers will use it in unexpected places for great fun.

 

Although this would advantage the leading car which is more likely able to use it all for defensive purposes.  So it isnt perfect.

 

I miss occasions where driver in slower car can successfully defend faster car.

 

Also wouldnt mind disabling of auto deactivation, to add further variables to the mix with driver mistakes.

 

Push-to-pass it is then!



#1007 Autodromo

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 11:37

Not to get all off track, but while in the Spanish GP the DRS was particularly strong, we have seen plenty of instances this year where even though the car behind had DRS then cannot overtake a car without DRS on the straights.  And even Checo with his monster car with monster DRS did not just cut through slower traffic like butter.  I mean, you STILL have to get within 1 sec and car designers have made choices about how their car is in traffic and where they want their speed (downforce vs straight-line speed), so to me there is still a lot at play.  But probably more like watching a pitcher-batter duel in baseball than watching people hit home runs.



#1008 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 11:39

I like Brundle's idea.

The problem with current system is it restricts part of track can be used which limits variables, and is also unlimited use as long as you are close enough to a car ahead.

Give set amount of use per race "and" allow it to be used anywhere. Some drivers will use it in unexpected places for great fun.

Although this would advantage the leading car which is more likely able to use it all for defensive purposes. So it isnt perfect.

I miss occasions where driver in slower car can successfully defend faster car.

Also wouldnt mind disabling of auto deactivation, to add further variables to the mix with driver mistakes.


Just keep the bit where it can only be used within 1 second of the car in front (the entire reason it exists) and that’s good.

#1009 OO7

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 11:39

I miss occasions where driver in slower car can successfully defend faster car.

We literally see this all the time.



#1010 RedRabbit

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 12:38

Not a terrible race, but could have been a LOT more interesting if either the tires were more predictable or some teams had made better choices.

I think the unexpected cooler weather made the tires difficult to work out, and as in Australia, this benefitted Mercedes mostly by other teams not getting the tires working.

Pirelli need to go a step softer in their compound choices going forward this year for a few races, and see if that improves the races. Right now, they're either too hard for the temps, or just hard enough that teams can eek out a one stop with careful management, instead of pushing harder on a 2 stop.

Edited by RedRabbit, 05 June 2023 - 12:39.


#1011 MKSixer

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 12:51

Not a terrible race, but could have been a LOT more interesting if either the tires were more predictable or some teams had made better choices.

I think the unexpected cooler weather made the tires difficult to work out, and as in Australia, this benefitted Mercedes mostly by other teams not getting the tires working.

Pirelli need to go a step softer in their compound choices going forward this year for a few races, and see if that improves the races. Right now, they're either too hard for the temps, or just hard enough that teams can eek out a one stop with careful management, instead of pushing harder on a 2 stop.

Indeed.

 

They could simply go with the 3 softest compounds since the reformulations with one control tire which would require mandatory utilization and free choice for the other stint(s).



#1012 Clatter

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 12:58

I wonder where he'd have been at the end of lap one if he hadn't gone off track?

You know, did he not so much gain, as keep, a place or three through the whole ignoring where the circuit is thing...

This is one of the problems with the stewards. They generally only view an advantage in terms of passing another car, and ignore the advantage to being able to carry on off track with your foot planted. In this case if there had been gravel he would have had to lift and fall in behind, which might have made a difference to his progress.

Edited by Clatter, 05 June 2023 - 12:58.


#1013 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 12:59

If DRS is a necessary evil, I'd much rather it be limited - preferably by time (e.g. 60 secs per race) rather that 'uses'. This would mean that drivers would be more tempted to deactivate DRS when alongside the driver they are overtaking...rather than wasting it on a fly-by overtake.  



#1014 BoDarvelle

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 16:54

Not a terrible race, but could have been a LOT more interesting if either the tires were more predictable or some teams had made better choices.

I think the unexpected cooler weather made the tires difficult to work out, and as in Australia, this benefitted Mercedes mostly by other teams not getting the tires working.

Pirelli need to go a step softer in their compound choices going forward this year for a few races, and see if that improves the races. Right now, they're either too hard for the temps, or just hard enough that teams can eek out a one stop with careful management, instead of pushing harder on a 2 stop.

 

I've always found the idea they need 6 compounds to choose from, and three at every race, to be rather ridiculous.



#1015 Celloman

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 17:12

We literally see this all the time.

With regards to Red Bull, no. Max and Perez seem to fly by other cars on straights including the second quickest cars on the grid like Ferrari and Mercedes. We also saw Max fly by Perez in the same car in Miami, which could have been a nice battle with a bit more restrictive DRS rules.

 

DRS and the zones were quite nicely tuned with the previous generation cars, but seem a bit too OP now. I reckon the Lewis vs Max 2021 battles would have been over much quicker with the current regulations.



#1016 chrcol

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 17:33

Just keep the bit where it can only be used within 1 second of the car in front (the entire reason it exists) and that’s good.

 

Thats ok but I want to see it used with more creativity.

 

Imagine you get 15s use per race.

 

1 - This prevents it used again and again and again to pass or try to pass.  Pick the most important moments.

2 - Some might use their 15s to try and get undercut or overcut, but disadvantage have to overtake old school way if use up all 15s that way.

3 - Using it in different areas adds more driver element, F1 currently is too much car element.

 

Although the rest of it with the 1sec behind car restriction would still be an improvement so would take it regardless.


Edited by chrcol, 05 June 2023 - 17:34.


#1017 OO7

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 19:03

With regards to Red Bull, no. Max and Perez seem to fly by other cars on straights including the second quickest cars on the grid like Ferrari and Mercedes. We also saw Max fly by Perez in the same car in Miami, which could have been a nice battle with a bit more restrictive DRS rules.

 

DRS and the zones were quite nicely tuned with the previous generation cars, but seem a bit too OP now. I reckon the Lewis vs Max 2021 battles would have been over much quicker with the current regulations.

I disagree.  The reason RB are able to drive by other cars, is because they are so much quicker.  A better comparison would be cars of similar pace i.e. 2 tenths difference.



#1018 OO7

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 19:05

Thats ok but I want to see it used with more creativity.

 

Imagine you get 15s use per race.

 

1 - This prevents it used again and again and again to pass or try to pass.  Pick the most important moments.

2 - Some might use their 15s to try and get undercut or overcut, but disadvantage have to overtake old school way if use up all 15s that way.

3 - Using it in different areas adds more driver element, F1 currently is too much car element.

 

Although the rest of it with the 1sec behind car restriction would still be an improvement so would take it regardless.

You'd just end up with one car running out of DRS and them being overtaken easily, leading to more complaints about DRS.



#1019 JimmyClark

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 19:16

Obviously we can have a fan vote to double the DRS allowance of one driver outside of the top 5. Call it DHL DELIVERY BOOST or something.

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#1020 indian

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 19:18

Why is it that with all the tools and simulations available in this day and age, F1 is not able to predict how weak/strong DRS is going to be on a particular track? DRS has been in use for a long time now, they must have enough data on it. I guess shortening the zones if DRS is predicted to be too strong will solve some of the issues.



#1021 loki

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 19:46

Obviously we can have a fan vote to double the DRS allowance of one driver outside of the top 5. Call it DHL DELIVERY BOOST or something.

But only if they take a joker lap…

 

:rotfl:  :rotfl:



#1022 OO7

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 21:39

Obviously we can have a fan vote to double the DRS allowance of one driver outside of the top 5. Call it DHL DELIVERY BOOST or something.

:lol:



#1023 OO7

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 21:42

Why is it that with all the tools and simulations available in this day and age, F1 is not able to predict how weak/strong DRS is going to be on a particular track? DRS has been in use for a long time now, they must have enough data on it. I guess shortening the zones if DRS is predicted to be too strong will solve some of the issues.

They can't predict the variation in race day performance between teams, nor can they predict the strategies each time will run or whether there'll be a head or tail wind if any, into T1 and how strong it'll be or how the tyres will wear etc.  All of these individual factors play a role in the effectiveness or lack thereof when it comes to DRS.

 

EDIT:

These variances are not equally distributed between cars/teams and are dynamic throughout the course of a Grand Prix.


Edited by OO7, 05 June 2023 - 22:04.


#1024 Anderis

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 22:00

I have said it before but I will bring it up again- if you give drivers a set number of uses/time of DRS per race, it will lead to drivers who were not in traffic being able to save DRS for defensive purposes and prevent drivers who had to fight through traffic all race from overtaking them. Each case will be a different one but I bet people will dislike the outcome more often than they will like it.



#1025 OO7

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 22:19

I have said it before but I will bring it up again- if you give drivers a set number of uses/time of DRS per race, it will lead to drivers who were not in traffic being able to save DRS for defensive purposes and prevent drivers who had to fight through traffic all race from overtaking them. Each case will be a different one but I bet people will dislike the outcome more often than they will like it.

Using the current design and employment philosophy of DRS, I'd have a slot gap setting and zone length that would allow a car lapping 2 tenths to a quarter of a second faster than the car ahead (team mate, so the same performance spec of car and on the same age and compound of tyre) to be roughly front wing level or half way along side the car ahead at the braking zone.  If the car behind is half a second a lap quicker, i.e. dominant, well sorry but expect an easy overtake, of course this wouldn't be the case around circuits such as the Albert Park, Monaco, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Zandvoort, Marina Bay and Suzuka.



#1026 milestone 11

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Posted 20 June 2023 - 21:11

What's this all about, clearly been kept very quiet. https://www.autospor...ident/10485684/