26 replies to this topic

[Okyo]

Just had a look through of some old videos and I'm staggered to see some of the starts the drivers made quite a few years back:

https://www.facebook...35372467729657/

I can recall Alonso and Massa (being a Ferrari fan) more often than not winning places at the start without the need to have a tire advantage or picking better lines. Just by better sheer movement out of the grid slot. Has there been a change in the cars and procedures in the past years that has basically mitigated these kind of position gains at the start? Now even with softer tires than those ahead it's a hassle to gain anything notable.

Edited by Okyo, 08 June 2023 - 08:23.

[Peat]

My impression would be that starts are now so optimised with double-clutches and presets etc that they are essentially semi-automated. Very rare to see anyone make either ridiculously good or bad starts anymore, only the second phase of the start, once the 2nd clutch has been released can someone really balls it up. 

I don't know what can be done. Ban clutch paddles?

[JimmyClark]

Yes as above starting systems are so good now that they have all converged somewhat. Also I presume the self starting engines in the hybrid era means the tech is very advanced and cannot really be pulled back.

Edited by JimmyClark, 08 June 2023 - 08:38.

[pdac]

Yes as above starting systems are so good now that they have all converged somewhat. Also I presume the self starting engines in the hybrid era means the tech is very advanced and cannot really be pulled back.

 

I think then can pull anything back if you are insistent that it be done. Unfortunately, everything that gives help/advantages will only ever be pulled back if an alternative can be given that provides the same advantages.

Edited by pdac, 08 June 2023 - 08:55.

[IrvTheSwerve]

They should definitely ban the practice starts on the grid after practice sessions. Who on earth thought that was a good idea (for the show)?

 

 

[Clatter]

They should definitely ban the practice starts on the grid after practice sessions. Who on earth thought that was a good idea (for the show)?

You would probably need to ban practise starts from the pitlane as well.

[IrvTheSwerve]

You would probably need to ban practise starts from the pitlane as well.

 

I was thinking of also including that, I just thought that it might be a bit more difficult to police. You'll get some people just stopping at the end of the pitlane to try something.

 

Doing practice starts on the actual bit of race track (sometimes the exact same grid spot for the teams at the front) is crazy though. Great for the teams to get data but it serves no purpose for fans or safety.

[Roadhouse]

I don't really care to be honest. I know starts are a vital part of the weekend, but I'd rather have people win/lose places during qualifying or the race and not because they made a split second mistake in the start procedure.

[AncientLurker]

I can recall Alonso and Massa (being a Ferrari fan) more often than not winning places at the start without the need to have a tire advantage or picking better lines. Just by better sheer movement out of the grid slot.

 

Are we talking Renault Alonso with the ingenious launch system in the car that used the starting sensors in the the track?

 

[RedRabbit]

Are we talking Renault Alonso with the ingenious launch system in the car that used the starting sensors in the the track?

I remember the Ferrari's from that era having an incredible start system.

[B Squared]

They should definitely ban the practice starts on the grid after practice sessions. Who on earth thought that was a good idea (for the show)?

Practice starts have been around since at least the early 70s. My first trip to Watkins Glen in 1974, my brother and I thought Niki Lauda was having trouble with his Ferrari when he slowed to a stop in the section of road we were watching from. Next thing we know he's lighting it up to practice his start, it was a similar grade to that of start finish, this was in a practice session.

[Hellenic tifosi]

I would simply state that there should be a completely linear relationship between clutch position and clutch lever position.

No more "bite point setting", etc - just 100% manual control.

[ARTGP]

We've had plenty of races with launch overtakes if you look for them. I don't agree with your assessment that nothing is notable. 

 

Here's a couple of starts for reference

 

Imola '21 - Race Highlights | 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube

Imola '22 sprint - F1 Sprint Highlights | 2022 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube

Imola '22 race -Race Highlights | 2022 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube

Spa '22 - Race Highlights | 2022 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube

Monza '22 - Race Highlights | 2022 Italian Grand Prix - YouTube

USA '22 - Race Highlights | 2022 United States Grand Prix - YouTube

Edited by ARTGP, 08 June 2023 - 13:16.

[Clatter]

I was thinking of also including that, I just thought that it might be a bit more difficult to police. You'll get some people just stopping at the end of the pitlane to try something.

Doing practice starts on the actual bit of race track (sometimes the exact same grid spot for the teams at the front) is crazy though. Great for the teams to get data but it serves no purpose for fans or safety.

To be fair it's quite good viewing for those trackside. I don't see policing the pitlane being much of an issue. Simple no stopping rule is all that's needed.

Edited by Clatter, 08 June 2023 - 13:38.

[Bleu]

Originally they had practice starts on the grid allowed only on the circuits where practice starts from the pit lane were deemed too dangerous (eg. Monaco, Red Bull Ring, Silverstone), but later they have been allowed everywhere.

[MattK9]

They should definitely ban the practice starts on the grid after practice sessions. Who on earth thought that was a good idea (for the show)?

All good fun until a front runner stalls on the grid and creates a massive accident, and blames the FIA for banning practice starts.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

It was only a few years back when Hamilton was making bad starts versus Rosberg?

[Clatter]

All good fun until a front runner stalls on the grid and creates a massive accident, and blames the FIA for banning practice starts.

What's their excuse when they stall having had practise starts?

[MattK9]

It was only a few years back when Hamilton was making bad starts versus Rosberg?

2016 was 7 years ago.

I remember Toto said that Nico had the stitching on his glove changed so that he could "feel" the clutch paddle better

[MattK9]

What's their excuse when they stall having had practise starts?

Lack of talent? It isn't a common occurrence is it.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

2016 was 7 years ago.

I remember Toto said that Nico had the stitching on his glove changed so that he could "feel" the clutch paddle better

Ouch! That hurt!?! 😂😂😂

[MattK9]

Ouch! That hurt!?! 😂😂😂

I felt that when I typed it.
🤣

[Clatter]

Lack of talent? It isn't a common occurrence is it.

No, because they have anti-stall built in, but you still see a poor get away occasionally, where in the past they would have stalled.

[MattK9]

No, because they have anti-stall built in, but you still see a poor get away occasionally, where in the past they would have stalled.

Yes, a really terrible start where the anti stall kicks in is a rare occasion.

[JimmyClark]

All good fun until a front runner stalls on the grid and creates a massive accident, and blames the FIA for banning practice starts.

When was the last time someone stalled on the grid at the start? especially a front runner? I genuinely can't remember before the early 00s. The systems are too advanced now to allow that; practice starts for drivers don't change it.

[MattK9]

When was the last time someone stalled on the grid at the start? especially a front runner? I genuinely can't remember before the early 00s. The systems are too advanced now to allow that; practice starts for drivers don't change it.

 

Good, I never want to see it happen again.

[RedRabbit]

We've had plenty of races with launch overtakes if you look for them. I don't agree with your assessment that nothing is notable.

Here's a couple of starts for reference

Imola '21 - Race Highlights | 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube
Imola '22 sprint - F1 Sprint Highlights | 2022 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube
Imola '22 race -Race Highlights | 2022 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube
Spa '22 - Race Highlights | 2022 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - YouTube
Monza '22 - Race Highlights | 2022 Italian Grand Prix - YouTube
USA '22 - Race Highlights | 2022 United States Grand Prix - YouTube

Thinking about this some more - just in Barcelona recently, Russell made a blinder of a start, passing 3 cars before T1, while Gasly had a shocker. Norris and Hulkenberg weren't great either, while Stroll was pretty good.