1066 replies to this topic

[TomNokoe]

F1's traditional North American detour brings us back to Montreal for the unique challenge of the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve. Straights, chicanes, heavy braking and traction are the name of the game as the drivers skim the walls (champions' or otherwise) on the man-made Île Notre-Dame.

 

It's been a humdrum season thus far, but Canada often throws a spanner in the works, for Round 8 of the 2023 FIA Formula One World Championship ...

 

(Image of last year's start)

 

(Image of the circuit layout)

 

Musings for Montreal

 

Verstappen and Red Bull's dominance only seems to grow stronger with each race, and Montreal should be no different. Three DRS zones with strong straight line speed will suit the RB19 nicely. Perez's title charge ended before it really began, but a rear-limited circuit may bring him closer to Max than in Barcelona.

 

Challengers Mercedes have begun to build momentum after a Catalan rebirth, but this track is near enough the polar opposite of Barcelona, so it will likely be another weekend of refining the new aero philosophy. Always a happy hunting ground for Hamilton.

 

Aston Martin's own upgrade package looks set to debut this weekend. Alonso's 2022 front row puts him in good stead to return to the podium, whereas Stroll Jnr and Snr arrive at their home race for the first time ever with a competitive car. Rear limitation should suit them better.

 

The bereft Ferrari saw Endurance success last weekend and will be hoping for the motorsport equivalent of osmosis at a track that is often kind to them. Sainz arguably should've won this race last year. Leclerc will be glad he's penalty-free, unlike in 2022.

 

Alpine will take solace from their 2022 performance after being cut adrift from the chasing pack in Barcelona. The low-downforce demands and sticky Soft tyres should suit them better than Barcelona, so look out for them in qualifying. McLaren's Spanish Saturday surprise came to a shuddering halt on the Sunday, and Canada's slow/medium speed corners and drag-sensitive straights will only increase their pessimism.

 

Alfa Romeo enjoyed a surprise upturn in form in Spain, particularly from Zhou who is starting to hit his stride. Conversely, Bottas is quickly becoming Mr. Anonymous. Elsewhere, Haas should fare better this weekend thanks to their strong straight-line speed amongst the midfield pack. Alpha Tauri's early upgrades seem to have worked tremendously well, as 9th in the constructor's belies their real pace. Likely another weekend of Tsunoda knocking on the door of the top 10.

 

Finally, Williams should return to competitiveness at a track that favours straight-line speed, notwithstanding the fact they're bringing a very big upgrade this weekend - Albon only.

 

Tyres, Weather

 

(image of Pirelli graphic)

 

A welcome return for the softest trio of tyres, C3-C4-C5. The same as the 2022 race, which was a borderline 1-2 stop. Monaco showed that the C5 really helps at narrowing the field spread in qualifying, and will likely do the same this weekend at such a short track. Keep an eye out for rear deg on Sunday. Tyre pressures -1.0psi fronts (hurrah!), rears the same versus last year.

 

Fri - 23C/75F, maybe rain

Sat - 18C/64F, definitely rain

Sun - 20C/68F, probably dry

 

A disrupted weekend ahead, almost identical to last year!

 

Schedule

        BST     CEST    Local  
FP1     1830    1930    1330
FP2     2200    2300    1700
FP3     1730    1830    1230
Q       2100    2200    1600
R       1900    2000    1400

Convert to my time zone

 

Ferrari Challenge and F-1600 supporting. Full schedule.

 

 

--

 

Thoughts, predictions, ruminations all welcome below, and a friendly hello to any users seeking refuge from Reddit amidst the current blackout
 

Edited by TomNokoe, 16 June 2023 - 08:44.

[FLB]

I'm roughly 10 kilometers from the track. It's quite dark at the moment. There are reports of thunderstorms. There are also air quality issues. 

 

On the positive side, apparently quite a few drivers came out on Open Day to meet the fans, Hamilton and Leclerc among them. That hasn't been the case in previous years.

Edited by FLB, 15 June 2023 - 20:58.

[ANF]

There has been a few changes to the circuit for safety reasons. The extended concrete wall at T1 will hopefully make it impossible to shortcut T2.

24) Changes to the Circuit
• Extension of the concrete wall at the end of the pit wall by 106 m.
• Realignment and extension of the concrete wall in Turn 1 run-off.
• Enlargement of the run-off in Turn 3.
• Realignment of the walls in Turn 7.
• Pit entry width reduced to 4.5 m.
• Removal of the orange kerb at the entry of Turn 9 on LHS.
• Removal of the orange kerb at the entry and exit of Turn 14 on LHS.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

I say this every year, but it never happens and hasn't since probably 1998 or so, but I always expect carnage at turn 1 at the start. Never happens though

[404KF2]

I am so old that I watched that island being built, just in time for Expo '67.

[ARTGP]

the weather forecast looks hideous.

[FLB]

the weather forecast looks hideous.

Sunday doesn't look that bad. A lot cooler, but a lot less rain.

[917k]

They need to ditch the sector 3 DRS zone…it would force passing into the hairpin and at start / finish.

[jonpollak]

https://the-race.com...venue-montreal/

Jp

[Bendo]

Doesn't seem like the safest place to put a wall, but what do I know.

[jonpollak]

And that’s just why I posted….
Jp

[ClubmanGT]

What odds on Stroll taking out Alonso at the start. 
 

He's got form for bottling it at home. 

[vlado]

the weather forecast looks hideous.

 

Wet Q dry race wouldn't be too bad 

[Dan333SP]

In Montreal and just got back after walking around old town, weather was lovely this evening. Definitely have the rain gear packed in case it goes south though. 

[AustinF1]

Heard from someone in attendance that the Pit Walk was very crowded and they couldn't see much. Said they had to wait in long lines, etc.

 

In the past that Pit Walk has been open to anyone - ticket or not - and was open basically all day, which spread the crowd out across the day. It was awesome. Now you have to buy a ticket, and they apparently shortened it to 9am - noon. If I had to bet money on it, I'd say FOM is behind these changes. Can't be letting the ol' exclusivity guard down, & all that.

 

Montreal's pit walk is still far better than the single hour COTA offers to certain preferred ticket holders - where they herd you out of the pit lane after just 45 minutes, yelling at people like they're trespassing - but from what I hear, it's a much bigger hassle now.

[LolaB0860]

Support package is smaller than in previous years too, only the "standard" visit of Ferrari Challenge North America, and then the Canadian F-1600. The Nissan Sentra Cup is gone. And Porsches have been away for few years now.

Anyway, the Ferrari races will be livestreamed on Youtube again.

Toronto GP seems to give better value for money but I haven-t been to either of these events.

Edited by LolaB0860, 16 June 2023 - 05:02.

[YamahaV10]

It is sure hard to know who to bet on.

 

This is not a street track but not totally a race track either. So do you drop Perez or retain him ?

 

Sainz was solid last year. 

 

Mercedes will probably be 2nd fastest car again

[JimmyClark]

I say this every year, but it never happens and hasn't since probably 1998 or so, but I always expect carnage at turn 1 at the start. Never happens though

Since they asphalted it, it won't happen. In the old days cars would be funnelled between gravel and grass so it was quite tricky.

I must admit Montreal generally doesn't have the best races in the past few years - not sure if it just doesn't suit the cars since 2017, but 2019 aside I don't remember too much interesting happening here? Certainly nothing has stuck in the mind (though the oversaturation of the calendar doesn't help).

[fifi]

Heard from someone in attendance that the Pit Walk was very crowded and they couldn't see much. Said they had to wait in long lines, etc.

 

In the past that Pit Walk has been open to anyone - ticket or not - and was open basically all day, which spread the crowd out across the day. It was awesome. Now you have to buy a ticket, and they apparently shortened it to 9am - noon. If I had to bet money on it, I'd say FOM is behind these changes. Can't be letting the ol' exclusivity guard down, & all that.

 

Montreal's pit walk is still far better than the single hour COTA offers to certain preferred ticket holders - where they herd you out of the pit lane after just 45 minutes, yelling at people like they're trespassing - but from what I hear, it's a much bigger hassle now.

 

last year the open day was only 9-noon and it was a shambles they had to turn people away as they were never going to get everyone on to the island before it finished, i can see why they started charging at least to keep the numbers to a workable number
 

[PayasYouRace]

Doesn't seem like the safest place to put a wall, but what do I know.

It’s not in the direct firing line of any high speed accidents, and will stop drivers cutting turn 2. I think it’s a good idea.

[jstrains]

So this is the race when Fernando lets Lance pass for the win... or not and keeps it himself? 

[OO7]

They need to ditch the sector 3 DRS zone…it would force passing into the hairpin and at start / finish.

I'm thinking if there's to be 3 DRS zones, having them placed between 7 & 8, 9 & 10, then 14 & 1, may be better.

[Anja]

It’s not in the direct firing line of any high speed accidents, and will stop drivers cutting turn 2. I think it’s a good idea.

 

Will it stop cutting the turn completely? I'm all for the idea but I fear they'll just go across the grass now, which would make for an even more awkward way to rejoin the track - bumpy, easier to lose control of the car and closer to the apex. Potentially more dangerous. I doubt anyone will bother reversing/spinning around and rejoining before T2 altogether unless they will be ordered by the race control to do so. 

[PayasYouRace]

Will it stop cutting the turn completely? I'm all for the idea but I fear they'll just go across the grass now, which would make for an even more awkward way to rejoin the track - bumpy, easier to lose control of the car and closer to the apex. Potentially more dangerous. I doubt anyone will bother reversing/spinning around and rejoining before T2 altogether unless they will be ordered by the race control to do so.

It just might encourage them to try to make the corner rather than bail at the earliest opportunity, and then keep the position because the runoff is kind to them.

[Anja]

It just might encourage them to try to make the corner rather than bail at the earliest opportunity, and then keep the position because the runoff is kind to them.

 

Let's hope so, seems like you're more optimistic about the current driving standards than I am. 

Edited by Anja, 16 June 2023 - 08:09.

[LolaB0860]

Since they asphalted it, it won't happen. In the old days cars would be funnelled between gravel and grass so it was quite tricky.

I must admit Montreal generally doesn't have the best races in the past few years - not sure if it just doesn't suit the cars since 2017, but 2019 aside I don't remember too much interesting happening here? Certainly nothing has stuck in the mind (though the oversaturation of the calendar doesn't help).

It doesn't help that they've removed grass and gravel from most of the circuit in general, when they run off it's a quick return with minimal inconvenience. At least in Melbourne when you run off, you pay the price.

Also as half of the calendar is street circuits now, the cars are kind of hyper optimized for these anyway...

And the DRS is overpowered here too

Edited by LolaB0860, 16 June 2023 - 08:44.

[Clatter]

I'm thinking if there's to be 3 DRS zones, having them placed between 7 & 8, 9 & 10, then 14 & 1, may be better.

 

3 DRS zones, but only 2 detection zones is what irritates me there. Most of the overtakes in zone 2 are completed by turn 13, but the attacker still has DRS down the main straight to open a huge gap.

[KWSN - DSM]

https://the-race.com...venue-montreal/

Jp

 

Have they created an incident wall? Will we have a car bounce of and back out blocking the whole corner? Or is it just the angles on the picture making me think that?

 

Edit: Ooooppssss I am way to late to the show.

Edited by KWSN - DSM, 16 June 2023 - 08:47.

[JimmyClark]

It doesn't help that they've removed grass and gravel from most of the circuit in general, when they run off it's a quick return with minimal inconvenience. At least in Melbourne when you run off, you pay the price.

Also as half of the calendar is street circuits now, the cars are kind of hyper optimized for these anyway...

And the DRS is overpowered here too

Well indeed, part of what made the last chicane challenging was the dust if you cut it. Now it's just a sea of asphalt so it's relatively straightforward (and the kerbs were lowered too I think).

[Goron3]

Have they created an incident wall? Will we have a car bounce of and back out blocking the whole corner? Or is it just the angles on the picture making me think that?

 

Edit: Ooooppssss I am way to late to the show.

The tarmac run off is still there. If an out of control car went off the track and into the wall, it will stay in the tarmac area instead of hurtling across the exit of turn 2.

[ANF]

Doesn't seem like the safest place to put a wall, but what do I know.

I'd say it's safer to hit a tyre barrier than cars that are exiting T2.

[d246]

I'd say it's safer to hit a tyre barrier than cars that are exiting T2.

I'd been wondering if they were going to try and build something in there. Corner 3 at the top of the hill at the Red Bull circuit is another example, albeit trickier to impliment.

[LegendInTheMaking]

Montreal has been hosting the Canadian GP since 1978, meaning they have their 45th anniversary this year. Over the course of these years, there have been a lot of rememberable moments.

 

In 1978, Gilles Villeneuve won his first GP

 

Alan Jones took the WDC in 1980, the only driver to do so in Montreal.

 

Jacques Laffite en route to win the 1981 GP. His last win, Talbot's last win and Ligier's last win until the 1996 Monaco GP.

 

A very unconventional podium photo, with rather strange trophies for Prost and Lauda and Piquet wearing only one shoe as he burned he foot due to extreme heat from a new cooling configuration in his Brabham.

 

In 1989, we saw the dawn of a new era for Williams. Thierry Boutsen took his first win, but historically more imporant: this was the first win for the Williams - Renault combination, which would be a dominant force in the 90's.

 

Speaking of Williams dominance: 1991 should have been another victory for them. However, Mansell started waiving to fans and dropped the revs too low had an electrical problem, causing him to stall on the last lap, allowing Piquet to take his final victory.

 

You can't make a list of Canada memories and not include Jean Alesi's sole win in 1995. The crowd loved it.

 

1999 was the year of the "wall of champions", as Schumacher, Hill and Villeneuve all crashed out in the final corner. 

 

2007 was an eventful race: 4 safety cars, Kubica's huge crash and DSQ's for Massa and Fisichella. Hamilton took his first win in Canada out of many, as he shares the most wins record with Michael Schumacher at 7 wins.

As a gift from 2007: Sutil is flying in practice.

 

In 2008 Kubica bounced back to take the only win of his career and BMW's last victory to date. This is arguably the least-ugly angle to view that year's cars. 

 

2011 gave us probably the greatest zero-to-hero drive. Button drove teammate Hamilton into the pitwall, later on also collided with Alonso, got a drive-through penalty for speeding and suffered a puncture to find himself dead-last. From there on, he fought his way back to the front and overtook Vettel on the last lap to take the win.

 

Daniel Ricciardo on his way to win his first GP in 2014.

 

In 2019, Hamilton won as Vettel got a penalty for re-entering the track unsafely and forcing another driver off the track, when he went off under pressure from Hamilton. As you can see, Vettel did not quite agree with the 5-second punishment that put him back into 2nd place, despite being ahead of Hamilton on track.

 

Last year's race had a late safety car that essentially turned the race into a 16-laps sprint race between Verstappen and Sainz. Verstappen couldn't get Sainz out of DRS-range, but Sainz couldn't get close enough to pass as well, so they finished in the same order as they began. 

[jonpollak]

Lovely recollection there LITM.
Thank you.
Jp

[aray]

Seems like wet quali and dry race. I always like it other way around.

[SilverArrow31]

My favourite track and race of the year!!!!!!

[jjcale]

Theme of the weekend .... can Merc get within 10 seconds of Max over a race distance here .... rest of the season might be a lot more fun if they can.

[KWSN - DSM]

 

Alan Jones took the WDC in 1980, the only driver to do so in Montreal.

 

 

A very unconventional podium photo, with rather strange trophies for Prost and Lauda and Piquet wearing only one shoe as he burned he foot due to extreme heat from a new cooling configuration in his Brabham.

 

We need those derby Winner wreaths back, and we need trophies like those back.

Edited by KWSN - DSM, 16 June 2023 - 12:02.

[KWSN - DSM]

Seems like wet quali and dry race. I always like it other way around.

 

Both days little bit of Country, little bit of Rocking Roll please...

 

[IrvTheSwerve]

Really happy to see that new wall at T1/T2. I’ve seen a lot of people on social media criticising it as if it’s a huge danger, but it’s totally out of the firing line of the T1 braking zone and if a car were to end up sliding over there from the T1 braking zone it’s far better to hit that wall than T-bone another car.

 

Since they’ve got rid of the gravel at T1, drivers have been taking the mick there for decades in terms of pushing too hard and cutting the corner. This year, we will magically see drivers no longer overcooking it.

[vlado]

I’ll be surprised if Mercedes are ahead of AMR here

[jcbc3]

Will someone Chastain that wall?

[Claudius]

So Montreal is the circuit where Gilles, Boutsen, Alesi, Hamilton, Kubica and Ricc got their first win.

Interesting.

[Bloggsworth]

It seems that there may not be a lot of dry running before Q1 - Sunny on Sunday though. My 80 year old brother is racing his Lotus 7 at Mosport this weekend, which should be dry.

[aportinga]

Hoping Hamilton wins this!

 

Ferrari are done for the season IMO and AS seem to not be able to find any consistency - in fact Alpine seem to be catching them rapidly.

 

Merc seems the only team moving forward and I think we all agree that Merc can be consistent - not a clown show like Ferrari for example.

 

That said a win for Hamilton could really motivate the team to move even further! I don't think they have a shot at the WDC/WCC but it would set the stage for a great 2024!

[PayasYouRace]

We need those derby Winner wreaths back, and we need trophies like those back.

Somehow third place got a bigger ship than second place.

[Ali623]

Hoping Hamilton wins this!

 

Ferrari are done for the season IMO and AS seem to not be able to find any consistency - in fact Alpine seem to be catching them rapidly.

 

Merc seems the only team moving forward and I think we all agree that Merc can be consistent - not a clown show like Ferrari for example.

 

That said a win for Hamilton could really motivate the team to move even further! I don't think they have a shot at the WDC/WCC but it would set the stage for a great 2024!

 

I think it's too early to say whether Mercedes are moving forward, unless they can repeat their Spain performance over the next several Grand Prix. Aston Martin are the team I'm interested in this weekend, they've brought their first big upgrade package of the season and it's a clear refinement of their current design unlike the concept change that Merc/Ferrari brought. So far I'd say they've been the most consistently strong team behind RB

[Pingu Pi]

Don't see anything but a Max win unless they have issues.

However I'm very interested in the potential battle between Merc and Alonso. Things could be spicy for P2/3 for the rest of the year and i'm excited to see how Hamilton going to toe to toe with Alonso will go again and George sticking his elbows in. 

[Clatter]

Hoping Hamilton wins this!

Ferrari are done for the season IMO and AS seem to not be able to find any consistency - in fact Alpine seem to be catching them rapidly.

Merc seems the only team moving forward and I think we all agree that Merc can be consistent - not a clown show like Ferrari for example.

That said a win for Hamilton could really motivate the team to move even further! I don't think they have a shot at the WDC/WCC but it would set the stage for a great 2024!

Would a win for Russell not motivate them?

[thefinalapex]

Would a win for Russell not motivate them?

Apparently not.