129 replies to this topic

[RacingFan10]

I saw this elsewhere and I thought it would be a good idea.

 

What's your tier list

 

You can do your own here: https://tiermaker.co...ier-list-537348

 

And then save it as an image and post it in this thread.

 

Ignore the numbers on the left, you can place as many in each tier as you feel.

 

 

Here's mine

 

[uzsjgb]

https://www.autospor...driver-ratings/

 

There you can see what most people think.

[1player]

Only Albon and Piastri are provisional, and could be upgraded to a higher tier.

[Cliff]

Max

Fernando, Lewis

Charles, Lando, George

Everyone else

Nyck, Logan, Lance

[Anderis]

I tried to make my tier list but it ended up having like 10 tiers because I could always tell better and worse drivers within a tier so I gave up.

[Dennista]

Edited by Dennista, 09 July 2023 - 21:08.

[Marklar]

Piastri is too low probably but I'm unwilling to put him higher yet

I'm not judging the current season here but more like a general feeling based on a prolonged but still recent enough period. A 2023 season only approach would work better as a list rather than tiers IMO.

 

[Erwin123]

 

 

Done

[PlatenGlass]

Alonso is an interesting one. He wasn't as convincing with a slower car at Alpine and with Ocon as his team-mate but now that he's got a quick Aston Martin and Stroll and he's the best thing since sliced bread. I find him difficult to place.

[Heyli]

surprised many of you put Albon so low. I think he's been very strong, but maybe it's due to him not really having a proper benchmark?

[Risil]

Did I tell you all about the very detailed letters page argument I found in Motor Sport magazine about what tiers the drivers of 1954 fell into?

[PlatenGlass]

Did I tell you all about the very detailed letters page argument I found in Motor Sport magazine about what tiers the drivers of 1954 fell into?

It rings a bell. What's the summary?

[uzsjgb]

Interesting how this diverges from the driver rankings taken over the season. Everybody here has Stroll right at the bottom, Autosport has him at 7 with the same score as Norris and Tsunoda. The readers have Stroll at 12, Tsunoda at 9. I think the accumulated scores over a season are much more accurate, because people will remember a driver's performance in the race when voting on Monday. In the Austrian Driver Ratings over 350 people voted, that is a good data basis.

 

I think it is difficult for people to judge how good a driver is. It was interesting for me to recently learn that a lot of people just look at the points. For them Russell is better than Hamilton, Ocon better than Alonso. People also tend to rate a car's performance, instead of a driver's, see Tsunoda's low ranking here. Stroll rankings can't be taken seriously, because people hate him, that plays a big role. 

 

If I am informed correctly, then only Autosport Plus members can vote in the driver rankings. Which leads to the interesting question, why these are so different. Is it because Autosport Plus members are more educated by the Autosport Plus articles, or is it just that people with a deeper interest and understanding of the sport become Autosport Plus members?

[Risil]

It rings a bell. What's the summary?

Away from my computer but believe it or not Fangio and Ascari were in everyone's Tier 1

[RacingFan10]

Interesting how this diverges from the driver rankings taken over the season. Everybody here has Stroll right at the bottom, Autosport has him at 7 with the same score as Norris and Tsunoda. The readers have Stroll at 12, Tsunoda at 9. I think the accumulated scores over a season are much more accurate, because people will remember a driver's performance in the race when voting on Monday. In the Austrian Driver Ratings over 350 people voted, that is a good data basis.

 

I think it is difficult for people to judge how good a driver is. It was interesting for me to recently learn that a lot of people just look at the points. For them Russell is better than Hamilton, Ocon better than Alonso. People also tend to rate a car's performance, instead of a driver's, see Tsunoda's low ranking here. Stroll rankings can't be taken seriously, because people hate him, that plays a big role. 

 

If I am informed correctly, then only Autosport Plus members can vote in the driver rankings. Which leads to the interesting question, why these are so different. Is it because Autosport Plus members are more educated by the Autosport Plus articles, or is it just that people with a deeper interest and understanding of the sport become Autosport Plus members?

 

Yes because its about rating/ranking drivers overall on how good they are and not just for one season.
Different circumstances can make drivers have ups and downs, look at Alonso for example, last season and this season what a difference a team change can do
 

 

Away from my computer but believe it or not Fangio and Ascari were in everyone's Tier 1

 

This makes sense to me

Edited by RacingFan10, 09 July 2023 - 21:54.

[noikeee]

[Ruusperi]

Piastri is too low probably but I'm unwilling to put him higher yet

I'm not judging the current season here but more like a general feeling based on a prolonged but still recent enough period. A 2023 season only approach would work better as a list rather than tiers IMO.

 

I don't have to do it myself, you did it for me.

[KWSN - DSM]

[Button4life]

Crazy to see Stroll and Leclerc in the same tier.

[Alfisti]

Gee i struggle to put Sainz a tier up on Ocon. I reakon it'd be really close between those two over a season. 

[SenorSjon]

Alonso is an interesting one. He wasn't as convincing with a slower car at Alpine and with Ocon as his team-mate but now that he's got a quick Aston Martin and Stroll and he's the best thing since sliced bread. I find him difficult to place.

 

The Alpine usually broke down last year, especially the Alonso one.

[Taxi]

[Hrco42]

I know this is off topic, but seeing how many people put Leclerc in elite or almost elite tier, I gotta say I think he is the most overrated driver on the current grid. What the hell has he done in F1 so far? Beat the mentally tired Vettel and is similar to Sainz. He has 5 wins in 4.5 seasons in a Ferrari. Elite driver would have had more wins than that and would probably challenge for the title last year, I think we would get the repeat of 2010.

Take Perez out of RB and put Leclerc in, I think his performances would be closer to Perez than to Verstappen.

But, he drives a mega lap in qualy once or twice a year and for everyone he is elite...

[Boxerevo]

[Boxerevo]

I know this is off topic, but seeing how many people put Leclerc in elite or almost elite tier, I gotta say I think he is the most overrated driver on the current grid. What the hell has he done in F1 so far? Beat the mentally tired Vettel and is similar to Sainz. He has 5 wins in 4.5 seasons in a Ferrari. Elite driver would have had more wins than that and would probably challenge for the title last year, I think we would get the repeat of 2010.

Take Perez out of RB and put Leclerc in, I think his performances would be closer to Perez than to Verstappen.

But, he drives a mega lap in qualy once or twice a year and for everyone he is elite...

Short answer: Ferrari.

 

But everytime the car was really good and the team didn't screw, he was there to fight for the win.

Edited by Boxerevo, 10 July 2023 - 09:28.

[engineblock1]

I know this is off topic, but seeing how many people put Leclerc in elite or almost elite tier, I gotta say I think he is the most overrated driver on the current grid. What the hell has he done in F1 so far? Beat the mentally tired Vettel and is similar to Sainz. He has 5 wins in 4.5 seasons in a Ferrari. Elite driver would have had more wins than that and would probably challenge for the title last year, I think we would get the repeat of 2010.

Take Perez out of RB and put Leclerc in, I think his performances would be closer to Perez than to Verstappen.

But, he drives a mega lap in qualy once or twice a year and for everyone he is elite...

 

While Leclerc has made mistakes, i would say his team has a fair share in some of lost opportunities this and last season.

I wouldnt put him in 1st row but he surely is doing job enough to stay in 2nd.

Being a Ferrari driver has only become harder ever since MSC left. Ask Massa, Alonso, Vettel and now Sainz too.

[Colbul1]

Charles Leclerc has 19 pole positions, I think his team mates have managed 1 a piece in that time.  On pure pace he is the fastest driver on the grid.  Come the race, he is prone to errors and needs to stand up to Ferrari strategy more, but his speed cannot be denied in my opinion.

[RacingFan10]

Charles Leclerc has 19 pole positions, I think his team mates have managed 1 a piece in that time.  On pure pace he is the fastest driver on the grid.  Come the race, he is prone to errors and needs to stand up to Ferrari strategy more, but his speed cannot be denied in my opinion.

 

Trulli also used to be a hell of a driver on one lap pace

[Beamer]

Charles Leclerc has 19 pole positions, I think his team mates have managed 1 a piece in that time.  On pure pace he is the fastest driver on the grid.  Come the race, he is prone to errors and needs to stand up to Ferrari strategy more, but his speed cannot be denied in my opinion.

 

Kinda Trulli like you mean? 

[Beamer]

[Gareth]

[Marklar]

I know this is off topic, but seeing how many people put Leclerc in elite or almost elite tier, I gotta say I think he is the most overrated driver on the current grid. What the hell has he done in F1 so far? Beat the mentally tired Vettel and is similar to Sainz. He has 5 wins in 4.5 seasons in a Ferrari. Elite driver would have had more wins than that and would probably challenge for the title last year, I think we would get the repeat of 2010.

Take Perez out of RB and put Leclerc in, I think his performances would be closer to Perez than to Verstappen.

But, he drives a mega lap in qualy once or twice a year and for everyone he is elite...

The fact that you think he and Sainz are similar or that people compare him to Trulli when he is perfectly quick in races too shows the issue

Though he is a touch meh this year, but still.

[Clrnc]

 

Felt like I need one more tier to make it fairer, but this is my ranking. Sargeant has the potential to move up one tier as this is his first season. I believe Tsunoda and Piastri has the talent to move up another tier too. 

 

The rest more or less should be fixed in their career. 

[Bleu]

Great tier names, Gareth.

[jcbc3]

I have a hard time seeing Bottas as better than Albon this year like some posters.

 

I am making the distinction since it's in the thread head line that we are talking 2023 and not life time achievement.

[SenorSjon]

 

Well, we've seen Leclerc implode on WDC-stress last year with at least two high profile mistakes (Imola, France) when the car was still capable of winning on merit.

[Sterzo]

Did I tell you all about the very detailed letters page argument I found in Motor Sport magazine about what tiers the drivers of 1954 fell into?

Which month's edition is that in? I might write them an indignant letter of protest if I disagree with it.

[Alfisti]

To be clear, this is on CURRENT form. I'd have Alonso and Lewis with Max if they were younger.

 

[KWSN - DSM]

I have a hard time seeing Bottas as better than Albon this year like some posters.

 

I am making the distinction since it's in the thread head line that we are talking 2023 and not life time achievement.

 

Mine is based on how I see this season, and this season only.

[ANF]

[Rumblestrip]

 

I think that's a good way of splitting them up 

[noikeee]

I have a hard time seeing Bottas as better than Albon this year like some posters.

I am making the distinction since it's in the thread head line that we are talking 2023 and not life time achievement.

Bottas right now reminds me of Trulli cruising around for Caterham. Nice pre retirement gig. Low stress, high pay, travel around the world.. why bother going for those last 2 tenths anymore

The only difference is he shows his ass on Instagram.

[SenorSjon]

In Trulli's defence, there was no DtS or Instagram back then. 

[noikeee]

In Trulli's defence, there was no DtS or Instagram back then.

You're defending Trulli's controversial decision not to show his bottom?

[F1matt]

Question time: 

 

People who have put Max, Fernando, and Lewis in the same tier, does that mean you expect Fernando or Lewis to beat Max in a Red Bull if they were team mates, maybe not every week but on a regular basis? 

 

I am not questioning judgement I am trying to gauge thought process!

[PlatenGlass]

I think that's a good way of splitting them up

I'm not sure. Some world champions can be much better than others, and non-champions better than champions. Plus some drivers stay past their peak and wouldn't really be top tier any more.

[mclarensmps]

sigh... I can't even begin to describe how much I hate these things. 

[SenorSjon]

You're defending Trulli's controversial decision not to show his bottom?

 

Many have seen his rear while waiting for his pace to pick up. 

[Gareth]

Question time: 

 

People who have put Max, Fernando, and Lewis in the same tier, does that mean you expect Fernando or Lewis to beat Max in a Red Bull if they were team mates, maybe not every week but on a regular basis? 

 

I am not questioning judgement I am trying to gauge thought process!

Put them in equal machinery (that is not their current teams), and I think you have a close season between them.

 

I also considered the "2023" in the thread title differently to jcbc3, and did my tiers based on where I think drivers are at as at 2023 overall (rather than confined to 2023 only), hence the tier naming.

[Alfisti]

I really think max has them covered. Alonso especially is getting up there age wise and no man is immune, I don't see for example how Alonso qualifies in front of Max pretty much ever.