22 replies to this topic

[Dunc]

I haven't seen this discussed elsewhere so thought it was worth a thread - what does TNF think about the latest of Sky's F1 docs about the moustachioed one.

 

I really liked it. It was obviously one-sided but given how much negativity I've read about Mansell over the years it's good to see something more positive. Damon Hill was particularly good on it. Karun Chandhok is the weakest link but even he isn't dreadful.

 

The best moment has to be his reunion with the FW14B, really gave me goosebumps to see him in his old overalls again.

[Collombin]

I was surprised by Nigel commenting that Senna's moves to defend his lead in the last few laps at Monaco 1992 would have earned him a penalty these days: I recalled it as pretty clean defensive driving. Sure, he kept it in the middle of the track at times and used different lines, but I didn't remember any weaving or chopping.

Edited by Collombin, 12 July 2023 - 14:59.

[Cornholio]

I was surprised by Nigel commenting that Senna's moves to defend his lead in the last few laps at Monaco 1992 would have earned him a penalty these days: I recalled it as pretty clean defensive driving. Sure, he kept it in the middle of the track at times and used different lines, but I didn't remember any weaving or chopping.

 

I've heard him mention this a few times down the years, but I'd always (incorrectly?) interpreted it as a criticism of modern over-regulation, than of Senna's driving that day. Especially as in the same documentary he seemed to say that after the "pinning him against the wall" incident, he basically had no problem and plenty of respect from that point onwards. But yeah the more I think about it, I might be wrong, since I don't think F1 has ever had a rule against proactively placing your car like the brief IndyCar one that Castroneves got hosed by 10 or 15 years ago.

 

Loved the documentary as whole, particularly the first half as it had more never before seen (by me) footage, then again I'm kind of unashamedly biased on that one.

[jonpollak]

Thanks for this Dunc.
 
I saw it last night and loved it.
Seeing that 99%of the paddock disliked him it didn't matter because the British public adored him and as soon as he recalled their devotion... He broke into tears.
I was a fan as well. His ballsy moves and penchant for High Drama made me pay attention.
 
The best thing about this doc were the contributions from my pal and mentor Anne Bradshaw.
She let rip with a few 'inside the garage' moments that were pure Nigel. How she kept that side of the garage on an even keel always impressed me.
I loved her articles here on AtlasF1
 
I keep telling her to write that damn book.
She'd always say..."After you my dear."
 

 
Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 13 July 2023 - 23:17.

[john aston]

Because I'm an ocean going snob I never warmed to Mansell .  I saw him win his first GP , was at Stowe in 87 and saw his astonishing qualifying lap in 1992 at Silverstone - judged by  the art , he was thrilling. But judging the artist  .....I grew tired of the endless whining, the self mythologising  and the whole 'man of the people' schtick . The podcasts I've heard him do are simply toe curling . 

 

His fanbase included some ghastly people . Whipped up by the Sun into xenophobic fervour , I well recall one flag waving Mansell fan at Silverstone . Every lap - every single lap- this knuckle dragging idiot waved his two fingers at Senna and screamed obscenities at him . Not the sort of  chap Rob Walker would have had much  time for ... 

Edited by john aston, 14 July 2023 - 06:33.

[Dunc]

Because I'm an ocean going snob I never warmed to Mansell .  I saw him win his first GP , was at Stowe in 87 and saw his astonishing qualifying lap in 1992 at Silverstone - judged by  the art , he was thrilling. But judging the artist  .....I grew tired of the endless whining, the self mythologising  and the whole 'man of the people' schtick . The podcasts I've heard him do are simply toe curling . 

 

His fanbase included some ghastly people . Whipped up by the Sun into xenophobic fervour , I well recall one flag waving Mansell fan at Silverstone . Every lap - every single lap- this knuckle dragging idiot waved his two fingers at Senna and screamed obscenities at him . Not the sort of  chap Rob Walker would have had much  time for ... 

 

OT and not trying to troll with this question, just playing Devil's advocate.

 

Mansell had a deserved reputation for complaining but so did Ayrton Senna. A lot of archive footage of AS features him railing against the then F1 establishment and pitting himself as the victim in the situation, yet he never seemed to get portrayed as a whinger. Was it just that he said in an exotic accent rather than a Brummie drawl? Maybe I'm misreading history but it does seem like he had a lot in common with Mansell when it came to his perception of himself.

Edited by Dunc, 14 September 2023 - 13:38.

[Bloggsworth]

Because I'm an ocean going snob I never warmed to Mansell .  I saw him win his first GP , was at Stowe in 87 and saw his astonishing qualifying lap in 1992 at Silverstone - judged by  the art , he was thrilling. But judging the artist  .....I grew tired of the endless whining, the self mythologising  and the whole 'man of the people' schtick . The podcasts I've heard him do are simply toe curling . 

 

His fanbase included some ghastly people . Whipped up by the Sun into xenophobic fervour , I well recall one flag waving Mansell fan at Silverstone . Every lap - every single lap- this knuckle dragging idiot waved his two fingers at Senna and screamed obscenities at him . Not the sort of  chap Rob Walker would have had much  time for ... 

Bllody hell, didn't realise that Brooklands was still active - Bet you got all worked up by Ooo Ah Jaguar as well. Can't imagine what you think of Harry Stiles fans... Mansell was what he was, like it or leave it and was unlucky not to win 3 World Championships - I'd rathe him than a driver who would park his car at o corner or deliberately risk the life of another driver by running into him to prevent him winning a championship.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 14 July 2023 - 15:34.

[john aston]

Actually I was at Brooklands earlier this week. With the right crowd , obviously ...

 

I disliked Schumacher and Senna's behaviour , by the way, but I loathed the xenophobia of some Brit fans as much . So not a Ooh Aah Jaguar guy either (is that what owners say when presented  with the Jag dealer's invoices ? ) . . And I am in close enough touch with the 2023 zeitgeist  to know how Harry Styles' name is spelled       

[Gene]

Over here in the states we only got to stream the Mansell doc over the net. While I did enjoy it, it also brought back a great memory, getting to know Anne B. during both our stays at Arrows. Not only smart, highly competent, and lots of fun to just sit and chat. I seem to remember her mentioning after Arrows (TWR) she was marrying an American and moving to Connecticut. But from the net it looks like she's back in the UK. Without getting too personal in somebody else's business is there an up date?

[Bloggsworth]

Actually I was at Brooklands earlier this week. With the right crowd , obviously ...

 

I disliked Schumacher and Senna's behaviour , by the way, but I loathed the xenophobia of some Brit fans as much . So not a Ooh Aah Jaguar guy either (is that what owners say when presented  with the Jag dealer's invoices ? ) . . And I am in close enough touch with the 2023 zeitgeist  to know how Harry Styles' name is spelled       

Shows how much of a Styles fan I am...

[2F-001]

Anne Bradshaw? A 'class act' - a very capable and pleasant person. I only knew her slightly through some other friends; I've no idea what she is doing now, or if still in 'the business' in some way, but would be good to know if she is well and happy.

[LittleChris]

I believe she's just got involved in a new  PR Co with Matt Bishop - Diagonal Comms

[Gary C]

Look her up on Twitter under @AnnieBWansford

[aportinga]

I wonder - any chance of streaming this online?

[F1matt]

On his day Nigel could beat anybody, he was box office; the overtakes, the bravery, the collapsing due to "exhaustion", the heartbreak, if he was driving today he would have his own Netflix series. 

[flatlandsman]

Watched it recently, was not as bad as I thought it was going to be, other than the usual Mansell stuff about Formula Fords doing 140mph, F3 cars doing 160 and F1 cars doing 215 mph in the wet round corners it was pretty good.  I have no idea why he has to over sensationalise his life but it is the feature I loath most about a remarkable man who was able to take on beat all comers routinely.  

 

I suspect Senna truly thought there was only one man quicker and that was Alain. He did give us some insight into their relationship, basically telling him, if you take me off again we are going to come to blows 86/7 (which I think Ayrton respected and leaned back a bit) and then at the end of his career, "you know now why I have to be the way I am"  Which I thought was a nice little insight. 

 

Not really that many snippets, but Nigel in fairness was pretty normal for a change his breaking up over the SPOTY award was touching as were his tributes to Roseanne and the less said about Piquet here the better, the men though a great driver comes across as something of a nasty piece of work at times and I suppose recent history shows us this finally. 

 

92 was a stellar year but again I think people who think it was easy are not really being fair, he was injured with his foot most of the year and I know it's Nigel but watch some stuff, he hobbled a lot! And that car demanded a way of driving that only he could manage, Ricardo certainly could not and he was no mug. 

[Jack-the-Lad]

Unless this documentary is available somewhere on the internet I suppose I’ll miss it here in the ‘States.  I had only two brief encounters with Mansell. The first was at a private Newman-Haas test weekend at Sebring and the other was Andretti’s retirement dinner in Indy before the 1994 500.   At Sebring he was quite personable even though I’m sure he would have been much happier somewhere else.  He didn’t relish being relegated to testing duties while Mario was elsewhere doing something less like work, I suppose.  The article in a recent issue of MotorSport was quite revealing about the team.  Nigel was  very taken with our bulldog, Amos, and readily agreed to a picture, which of course I still have.

 

I recall that during the cocktail reception before the Andretti retirement dinner he was off in a corner with friends but immediately recognized my wife from the Sebring test and greeted her warmly.  I didn’t see him after that and wondered if he stayed for dinner or left early.  Surely he wouldn’t  have.  I found myself seated next to  Parnelli  Jones so I was tied down to a great conversation.  What a dream evening for me.

 

I always admired Mansell for his driving and aggressiveness. It seemed he was always in the attack.  I sometimes thought that casual observers…such as I am…took his demeanor a little too seriously, and frankly I think he didn’t take himself as seriously as some others…his detractors, in particular…did; that he was enjoying being a bit of a self caricature just to wind people up.  I think it’s a bit silly to imply some flaw in his own character based on the attitudes of some of his fans.   Every high profile athlete has fans that might be distasteful for one reason or another.  

 

As  a tifoso I was excited when he joined Ferrari and he produced some thrilling drives for the Scuderia. I wonder if the documentary made much of some interesting trivia:  Nigel was the first Ferrari driver since Mario Andretti (1971) to win his maiden race for the Maranello team.  He was indirectly responsible for Ferrari taking an unlikely and highly emotional 1-2 at the 1988 Italian GP just a few weeks after Enzo Ferrari’s death…..and he wasn’t even there. Adding to the irony is that his signing with Ferrari for 1989 had just been announced.  

[john aston]

If the Schlesser shunt had had tragic consequences, I'm not sure even I would have held our Nigel  responsible. .   

[Jack-the-Lad]

Happy birthday, Nigel, and welcome to Club LXX.  

[PayasYouRace]

If the Schlesser shunt had had tragic consequences, I'm not sure even I would have held our Nigel responsible. .

Are we thinking of the same Schlesser shunt? I’m hard pressed to imagine a tragic outcome from that clumsy tangle.

[Risil]

I'd expect Ron Dennis and Ayrton Senna found the outcome moderately tragic as it was.

[Jack-the-Lad]

For those interested, the documentary DVD and BluRay will be available next month.

[AJCee]

I’m not sure it is clear-cut that it couldn’t be a tragic/severe injury outcome. By the way Verstappen’s car launched over Hamilton’s cockpit at the same place a few years ago it isn’t inconceivable that the Schlesser/Senna shunt could have been worse.