282 replies to this topic

[JHSingo]

Will definitely take some adjusting to seeing a grid that relatively small. Despite Gow's defense that this is actually a good thing and what he always wanted, it's hard to view significantly fewer entries than just a few years ago as being a sign of a healthy series. And it means it's even more reliant on the bigger teams to remain financially secure. 

 

Not sure how much of it I'll watch this year, but I might be able to catch the odd race here and there. 

[WonderWoman61]

I count 20 entries for the first rounds of the 2009 and 2010 seasons, a small dip from 2007-08, no doubt due to the economic crisis at that time. A ~30 car grid in modern times has only been a feature of the NGTC era.

We've been spoiled in that respect then.

[WonderWoman61]

https://btcc.net/202...r-for-the-btcc/

[F1matt]

"About Global Media Properties (GMP): Global Media Properties is an integrated agency providing innovative commercial solutions in the realm of sports, arts and culture, entertainment, and tourism. Utilising its four core verticals of sales, content creation, data/insights, and asset development, GMP strives to unlock new opportunities and enhance experiences for partners and audiences worldwide."

 

 

 

 

 

What does any of that even mean? Are they managing BTCC social media campaigns? Producing content for ITV or selling the series to other countries? 

[WonderWoman61]

"About Global Media Properties (GMP): Global Media Properties is an integrated agency providing innovative commercial solutions in the realm of sports, arts and culture, entertainment, and tourism. Utilising its four core verticals of sales, content creation, data/insights, and asset development, GMP strives to unlock new opportunities and enhance experiences for partners and audiences worldwide."[/size]
 
 
 
 
 
What does any of that even mean? Are they managing BTCC social media campaigns? Producing content for ITV or selling the series to other countries?

Who knows?

[PayasYouRace]

That's a lot of words to say nothing at all.

[Burtros]

I’d be interested to see a list of drivers who are not returning which is perhaps the best way to asses the impact of less cars. How many of them will we miss?

I can see we’ve lost Collard and Butcher who were both handy, gained Rob Huff back instead though. Thompson doesn’t have a seat yet but was in and out last year. Who else is decent and not racing in 2024 from last years crop?

[midgrid]

Rory Butcher, Stephen Jelley, George Gamble, Dan Lloyd, Jack Butel, Jade Edwards, Dexter Patterson, Michael Crees, Nic Hamilton, Will Powell and James Gornall will not be returning, barring last-minute surprises, plus Bobby Thompson if he doesn't get the WSR seat.

[JHSingo]

 

"About Global Media Properties (GMP): Global Media Properties is an integrated agency providing innovative commercial solutions in the realm of sports, arts and culture, entertainment, and tourism. Utilising its four core verticals of sales, content creation, data/insights, and asset development, GMP strives to unlock new opportunities and enhance experiences for partners and audiences worldwide."

 

 

 

 

 

What does any of that even mean? Are they managing BTCC social media campaigns? Producing content for ITV or selling the series to other countries? 

 

 

I'm a copywriter by trade, and one of the best known copywriting tips is to write about your business as if you were explaining it to a friend. In contrast, sentences like that are regularly cited as particularly bad examples of copywriting - it's just a load of gobbledygook and waffle that is as clear as mud. 

Whatever it is they do, one thing is definitely clear. They badly need a (better) copywriter. 

[Burtros]

Rory Butcher, Stephen Jelley, George Gamble, Dan Lloyd, Jack Butel, Jade Edwards, Dexter Patterson, Michael Crees, Nic Hamilton, Will Powell and James Gornall will not be returning, barring last-minute surprises, plus Bobby Thompson if he doesn't get the WSR seat.

Ahh yes Lloyd and Watson. Lloyd only just scraped the fund together last year in the end.

It’s a long list but a lot of that is filler too, in my opinion.

[WonderWoman61]

Ahh yes Lloyd and Watson. Lloyd only just scraped the fund together last year in the end.
It’s a long list but a lot of that is filler too, in my opinion.

Watson's still here, he's moved to Toyota.

[WonderWoman61]

https://www.touringc...ing-2024-drive/

At least she won't have to worry about having another season of bad luck or no luck.

[andysaint]

https://www.touringc...ing-2024-drive/

At least she won't have to worry about having another season of bad luck or no luck.

Sadly the results probably didn’t merit another season in any event. Shame really I hoped that she would pick up better results than she did.

[andysaint]

Ahh yes Lloyd and Watson. Lloyd only just scraped the fund together last year in the end.

It’s a long list but a lot of that is filler too, in my opinion.

Agree with that last comment. I was expecting much better from Butcher at Toyota tbh and Lloyd proved fast on occasion but apart from that, yea, filler.

[BRG]

https://www.touringc...ing-2024-drive/

At least she won't have to worry about having another season of bad luck or no luck.

So much for BTCC's diversity factor.  They already lost the disabled black guy, now the female, both probably victims of the Team Hard nonsense.  

[Jops14]

Was there ever a reason for Hamilton stopping midway through last season

[PayasYouRace]

Was there ever a reason for Hamilton stopping midway through last season

 

 

I thought it was because it was getting physically too hard for him. It's great that he had so long in the series but the cars are quite physical. Maybe not to the average able-bodied racing driver but to someone with cerebral palsy, very much so. When my friend showed me round Team Hard a couple of years ago, he mentioned it was getting to the limit of the braking force Nic could apply.

[Jops14]

Ahh if thats thr case its a shame. What he achieved was outstanding, the 6th in the wet was brilliant, also remember his 15th at Brands in the wet

[Disgrace]

Wasn't it budget? It's Team HARD we're talking about.

[WonderWoman61]

Ahh if thats thr case its a shame. What he achieved was outstanding, the 6th in the wet was brilliant, also remember his 15th at Brands in the wet

His 15th came mainly because of several late-race tyre failures/going off.

[Myrvold]

Rory Butcher, Stephen Jelley, George Gamble, Dan Lloyd, Jack Butel, Jade Edwards, Dexter Patterson, Michael Crees, Nic Hamilton, Will Powell and James Gornall will not be returning, barring last-minute surprises, plus Bobby Thompson if he doesn't get the WSR seat.

Dexter Patterson.

I might be mixing him with some other kid, but wasn't he seen as a fairly good talent when he did karting?

[F1matt]

I have said this before in another thread but having seen Nic Hamilton a few years ago in the paddock at Croft he really struggles to get around and has very limited mobility, the disadvantages he has compared to other drivers should not be underestimated and his multiple champion big brother must be proud of him.

 

 

As for Jade Edwards I expected a lot but sadly she just hasn’t delivered despite driving for a few different teams in different cars, I hope we do get a female driver who can be at the sharp end of the grid soon.

[BRG]

I agree that Nic was dealing with severe physical issues, and as PAYR mentioned there was a braking problem. 

 

But the WTCC permitted hand controls for Zanardi which allowed him to even win a race, why couldn't the BTCC do the same for Nic?  Maybe he is no Alex Zanardi talent-wise, but you might imagine the good PR  for BTCC from having a disabled guy, and one who just happens to be Sir Lewis's little brother, might persuade Gow & Co to go the extra mile.  But maybe we just don't know the full story.

[PayasYouRace]

I agree that Nic was dealing with severe physical issues, and as PAYR mentioned there was a braking problem.

But the WTCC permitted hand controls for Zanardi which allowed him to even win a race, why couldn't the BTCC do the same for Nic? Maybe he is no Alex Zanardi talent-wise, but you might imagine the good PR for BTCC from having a disabled guy, and one who just happens to be Sir Lewis's little brother, might persuade Gow & Co to go the extra mile. But maybe we just don't know the full story.

Zanardi still used his legs for braking. He used a hand throttle.

Nic’s condition means he lacks strength and control in his whole body. Putting more to do with his arms and hands isn’t likely to help him. His car had a chunky twin pedal setup, so his feet would stay on each pedal and all he had to do was push. That is, he didn’t have to position his legs, just focus on applying the correct force.

[WonderWoman61]

No 4th WSR Beemer for Donington Park.

[Pete_f1]

It's this weekend peeps!

[Burtros]

It's this weekend peeps!

Looks like it’s gonna be a wet one!!

[chdphd]

As per https://btcc.net/tv/
 

ITV4 & ITV4 HD’s LIVE broadcast times for all ten 2024 Kwik Fit British Touring Car Championship events are as follows: 
 

1. Donington Park: Sunday 28 April: 1040-1845
2. Brands Hatch Indy: TBC
3. Snetterton: TBC
4. Thruxton: TBC
5. Oulton Park: TBC
6. Croft: TBC
7. Knockhill: TBC
8. Donington Park GP: TBC
9. Silverstone National: TBC
10. Brands Hatch GP: TBC

 

 

 

I hope they don't tit around with that too much. It got a wee bit confusing last year IIRC.

[F1Frog]

The Autosport podcast and Kevin Turner have recently been doing a series of top tens related to the BTCC which I found really interesting and worth a discussion.
 
The first one was the top ten BTCC champions, effectively the GOAT debate for BTCC, and this was the list:
 
10. Matt Neal
9. Fabrizio Giovanardi
8. Yvan Muller
7. Jim Clark
6. Frank Gardner
5. Alain Menu
4. Jason Plato
3. Colin Turkington
2. Ash Sutton
1. Andy Rouse
 
In this episode, the guests Marcus Simmons and David Addison both suggested that Alain Menu should be top of the list and I can see an argument for this. I would certainly have him above Plato and Turkington and although my knowledge of pre-1991 BTCC is not fantastic, I also think Rouse should drop a few places. But I really think Ash Sutton is something special and even though he is early in his career, I think I would put him at the top of the list of greatest BTCC drivers. I said he should be close to it in 2021 and was sure that he would eventually find his way to the top, and by now I think that has happened. So I would have Sutton top and Menu second. The glaring absence from the list, in my opinion, is Rickard Rydell who I would probably rate as the fastest BTCC driver over one lap, certainly since 1991 (I have watched every BTCC race since 1991 but not many beforehand). He wasn't as complete as Menu but I think I would have him in the top five. I would also have Giovanardi a bit higher and would leave Neal off the list.
 
There was also a top ten drivers from the super touring era:
 
10. Steve Soper
9. Tim Harvey
8. James Thompson
7. Gabriele Tarquini
6. Joachim Winkelhock
5. Frank Biela
4. Laurent Aiello
3. John Cleland
2. Rickard Rydell
1. Alain Menu
 
For this ranking, I agree that Menu and Rydell should be the top two, and think they were a step ahead of the rest in this era. Arguably, the 2000 season in the Fords was a shoot-out between the two top drivers and while Rydell was generally faster in qualifying, Menu won the championship, and so I would have Menu ahead as the more complete driver but with Rydell the fastest and definitely deserving of second spot. But my main disagreement with this ranking is their decision to leave Anthony Reid in the 'honourable mentions.' I believe that Ford didn't just have the two best drivers of the era in their 2000 super-team, they had all three of them with Anthony Reid as well and I would place him third on this list. I think Reid measured up similarly against David Leslie in 1998 as Aiello did in 1999, and Aiello is near the top despite just one season. Then in 2000 he beat Rydell in the championship. I think Reid was super quick and consistent and would have him at number three after Menu and Rydell. Cleland is a bit too high, in my opinion, although he was the best driver of the start of the era, and I would drop Frank Biela down as he wasn't as clear of John Bintcliffe as Yvan Muller was in 1998. And Steve Soper at his best was the super touring era's greatest driver, with his drive at Silverstone in 1992 the most impressive that I think has been seen in the championship right up until he took out Cleland, but he only did one full season in the era, which was a disappointment as he was beaten by Winkelhock, so I am not sure I would include him. For what it's worth, my top ten would be Menu, Rydell, Reid, Aiello, Cleland, Winkelhock, Thompson, Tarquini, Muller, Biela.
 
And the third that I have listened to would be the top ten title deciders:
 
10. Brands Hatch 1958
9. Brands Hatch 2013
8. Brands Hatch 1977
7. Brands Hatch 1966
6. Silverstone 2000
5. Brands Hatch 2015
4. Brands Hatch 2019
3. Donington Park 2004
2. Brands Hatch 2009
1. Silverstone 1992
 
I think this was a nice podcast to listen to and would disagree with very little of the order. The only change I would make would be to remove 2013 which I don't think was a classic because it was clear early in the race that Jordan would win it, and so I would replace it with 2016 where Shedden had to pass Tordoff on track to take the title. 1958 is such an interesting and unique story that it has to make the list, but I had never heard of the 1966 or 1977 races but were very glad that I now have done because they were fascinating stories. I would suggest that 1977 sounded the better of the two but would elevate both above 2000. The top five were all great and I would probably have them in that exact order, except maybe demoting 2004 a bit because I didn't find it as memorable as the others. 2009 was perhaps my favourite ever season and had an incredible final day and final race in particular, but there is no way that 1992 can not be top of the list, that was one of the absolute best races in the history of any motorsport for so many reasons.
 
There are also rankings for the top ten BTCC cars, non-champions and liveries which I am yet to listen to, but so far I have really enjoyed this series and would recommend it to other BTCC fans. I would be interested to know how other people would shuffle these lists around.

[F1matt]

I guess Matt Neal is in the top 10 for sentimental reasons, I would never class him as a top driver, if there was an aggressive top 10 list he would be right up there. I would put Yvan Mueller and Alain Menu much higher up the list, As good as Andy Rouse was as a driver he was an even better engineer. If we could put that top 10 in equal machinery in their prime I am not suture Rouse would come out on top. 

[chdphd]

I enjoyed the top 10 champions one, but the livery one doesn't work as a podcast. I can visualise most of them, but I have no idea what some of the older ones looked like.

 

I've got the others lined up for my next road trip.

[WonderWoman61]

Rest in Peace Alan Minshaw 1935-2024

1983 Class C Champion and outright Runner-up.

Also famous for his BMW launching over the tyre barrier at Oulton Park in 1988 after a collision with Frank Sytner.

[Burtros]

Tom Ingram fastest this morning with a 1m08.1