28 replies to this topic

[mariner]

I I have bought my Silverstone Classic tickets online as usual but now have discovered I can't print a ticket but must download the Silverstone app. and enter my personal data again even though I have an account with Silverstone. 

 

https://www.silverst...NE TICKETS APP?

 

What really bothers ,and in fact annoys me , is that Silverstone want my name, phone, address and date of birth before they will even let me have the ticket I have paid for. 

 

By storing that info. my data security is at risk depending on how good, or bad, their data securty is. I fully accept the need to give airlines that level of data they must comply with very strict government security checks and vias etc but my date of birth, address and phone number just to go to a racetrack?

 

In contrast MSV will happily sell you a ticket on the gate on the day at their Brands Hatch events .

 

Also these personal data requirements are not visible during the on line ticket purchasing so, since you have to tick the T and C’s box if you want to buy a ticket then if you decide not to go due to not wanting to, or being unable to use the app. your   bank will not be able to force a merchant refund

[john aston]

You echo , more or less verbatim ,the thoughts  I've posted elsewhere. I found it clumsy , intrusive and irritating . One only hopes it works better than my last two e tickets at the ...err... home of British motor racing . Both entailed  non recognition of downloaded tickets - a problem I have never had  at venues ranging from Royal Festival Hall to Santa Pod  , via every MSV circuit .Grrrrr 

[Doug Nye]

That modern system might seem clumsy, and I do regard it as intrusive, but on the plus side it allows for the cancellation of lost tickets and re-issuing to the customers concerned. Previously they would have been sent away.

 

The system - I am told - has reduced fraud, seen off touts, aided with security (Silverstone's people were able to prevent protesters entering the GP) and has vastly speeded up access to site - a very significant factor with 160,000 coming in.

The same app is in use this weekend at The Open - which I believe has something to do with rolling a small ball into a small hole without touching it directly (weird) - this weekend and was also used at Wimbledon (woolly ball).

 

Twickenham, Wembley and Cardiff apparently all run very similar systems. So it is now regarded as being totally normal and accepted in sport. 'Accepted' by whom, its advocates do not specify...

 

Each relevant business does finally obtain data on every individual customer, not just the group booker, and this aspect is regarded as being "hugely important". 

 

As someone who cannot recall when I last bought a ticket for a sporting event (probably costing 7s 6d around 1963) I am otherwise unqualified to comment.

 

DCN

[flatlandsman]

Another issue with this and one I raised personally was that a hell of a lot of people will not or do not want to use a mobile phone at an event. For me it is just something to lose.  And also at times especially busy events I would gladly see the back of the damn things, everyone thinking they are David Bailey holding a damn phone right in front of their faces, it drives me nuts, you have eyes, you are aware of memory yes? even if you record it you are never going to watch it! But that is me being normal!

 

And being honest when I bought one a few months ago there did not seem an option to do it any other way, which is crazy really. 

 

To Doug's point this will be an AWS/Workday type thing, this has obviously been hocked and flogged to all and sundry as a way to reduce costs and increase data coverage so someone somewhere is sitting in a nice bonus after flogging it this well, fair enough. But some people will opt out as a result. Not enough for them to care clearly. 

 

And I might add the second time I used it, the scanner did not recognise the barcode, so clearly not great software. As I say someone somewhere is sitting on a massive amount of money, fair play to them. 

[Ray Bell]

I give my date of birth to nobody I don't have to...

 

I have a false date that I use, I will never forget it because of how I chose it, but if anyone were to ask me for evidence of my date of birth to confirm anything in this realm they'd find out it's different to the actual date.

 

Surely the first thing anyone needs to steal your identity is your date of birth.

[E1pix]

I especially love being asked for my maiden name despite being Male.

[sabrejet]

...everyone thinking they are David Bailey holding a damn phone right in front of their faces, it drives me nuts, you have eyes, you are aware of memory yes? 

 

In my case it's a "not really" to that one. Plus I do a lot of race car modelling and I've lost track of the amount of times I have used my photos for reference. However I use a camera, so I guess that I'm in the minority of people who hold things up to their eye. In any case that seems less obtrusive than holding a phone (or sometimes a tablet!!!!) at arm's length.

 

Haven't encountered the Silverstone ticket challenge yet but it won't be long. 

[F1matt]

Paying on the gate for any event, be it sport, music, or theatre is sadly becoming a thing of the past. Everything has to be so organised now, difficult to do anything on the spur of the moment. 

[2F-001]

Booking details for numerous events I've been to, or looked at attending, recently where purchasing tickets online is available (or mandatory) have said that the quickest and most efficient way to gain entry is to print out the tickets...

[flatlandsman]

I think it is all to do with saving money, your outlay on the app development and introduction is a burden, but then you need less people taking money at the event costing a tenner an hour for maybe 8 hours for sometimes tree days, you can make do with one guy or two holding a phone. No admin clicking boxes in an office or perhaps posting tickets, saving also on post. Kind of sad when that venue makes over 120 million a year (rough estimate based on prices and no outlay)  from F1, but hey, it's business. Think of the staff outlay you could save at an f1 weekend with this app, huge.

 

Oddly at the same gate there are about 4 blokes sitting in an office doing very little but checking cars in and out, guess that's fine lol!  Silverstone is really only about one event a year now, everything else is just waiting for F1 every year. I get it, it is a pay day that covers them for the year. 

 

Regarding pictures, I have no issue with snappers taking shots in public areas, I am talking about people with phones that are next to useless 100 yards away from an event holding them up in unison to video a car going past, I am lucky, I am tall, but a lot of people are not and this must make it very annoying at big events Hence why a few types of event have asked fans to either not bring phones or even asked them to be removed before entering a venue!

[bsc]

Kind of sad when that venue makes over 120 million a year (rough estimate based on prices and no outlay

I think Silverstone's profits are far below this figure.

[sabrejet]

I think a point has been missed here: this isn't about pre-paid tickets. It's about the information that's taken in this instance. I am all for pre-paid tickets and usually all it takes is a payment to do so. I'm not being asked for personal details and why should I? Mariner's example above is indeed a step too far.

[Vitesse2]

I think Silverstone's profits are far below this figure.

Latest accounts filed at Companies House show a trading loss of £246000 for FY 2021. Covid affected, obviously, as were 2020, when they made £2.679 million, and 2019 - £876000, a figure severely distorted by the startup costs for Silverstone Heritage's Silverstone Experience museum and its subsequent mothballing until mid-2020.

[Lee Nicolle]

I give my date of birth to nobody I don't have to...

 

I have a false date that I use, I will never forget it because of how I chose it, but if anyone were to ask me for evidence of my date of birth to confirm anything in this realm they'd find out it's different to the actual date.

 

Surely the first thing anyone needs to steal your identity is your date of birth.

I get every business and their brother wanting my name adress, DOB etc. Claiming it is for identity. Worse this when they call me! And I always answer with my name.

That and websites that do not work,, tried to enter the Bay  to Birdwood recently and had all sorts of hassles. Had to call them to enter,, $75 double the last time so possibly my last time as well.

Though trying to buy stuff online as well,, one largish seller I have tried several times to buy goods and it will not accept my payment. Worse they have no contact of any sort. So maybe better not buying from them. Though they have some machine tools noone else has. Meanwhile I get fresh adds from them near daily!

As for DOB, unfortunatly mine and many can be found online. And all my business details as well. Simply search your own name, it may scare you.

[Gary Davies]

Lee, very much agree. But on top of that, I came to the conclusion years ago that the Bay to Birdwood is a great way of wearing your clutch out.

[flatlandsman]

I have no real idea about the tracks finances, my point was that they sold 450k tickets for the event, even if they were all 300 quid each that is over 120 million, for one event, costs 25 mill to host, still a tidy sim!  Plus turf income from stalls, merch.

 

Obviously there is vast expenditure on hire, staff, music, stands etc etc.  But if they are not making a considerable profit when you do the basic maths, before corporate etc etc, then they need shooting!

 

I just wish it was friendlier, more pleasant every time you go there these days there is another place you can't stand, you are sheep herded by fences everywhere. Just not a very friendly place, you always feel like you are annoying them even being there, where at smaller tracks you feel more welcome. 

[chr1s]

 

 

I just wish it was friendlier, more pleasant every time you go there these days there is another place you can't stand, you are sheep herded by fences everywhere. Just not a very friendly place, you always feel like you are annoying them even being there, where at smaller tracks you feel more welcome. 

Couldn't agree more, which is why I don't go anymore!

[john aston]

I can't  get too energised about personal details - the little information about me that Jeff Bezos hasn't already gleaned . the guys at Apple have anyway.

 

And e - tickets are just fine , except when the security guy's  scanner doesn't recognise them (as has only happened at Silverstone) . It is the bloody faff involved in downloading an App , and not being able to access a ticket any other way .

 

And another thing - I get two tickets for the price of one  at Silverstone  Classic as  part of a car club deal. And for years , I have given away my spare ticket , sometimes to  less well off  friends ,and  more often to a stranger,  in return for a charitable contribution . I've been able to email , or post the print of a ticket - and that will now be impossible , as any guest will have to be with me . And as I arrive at 7am and leave late that isn't going to happen. 

 

It's a first world trivial  problem, but  the Classic is one of my favourite events . Despite the spectator viewing of the track being what Ron Dennis would call 'sub optimal'.  Or 'crap ' as we say in Thirsk   

[Stephen W]

Paying on the gate for any event, be it sport, music, or theatre is sadly becoming a thing of the past. Everything has to be so organised now, difficult to do anything on the spur of the moment. 

 

You can still do this at Oulton Park although I suspect you will need Photo ID.

[Lee Nicolle]

Lee, very much agree. But on top of that, I came to the conclusion years ago that the Bay to Birdwood is a great way of wearing your clutch out.

Auto! 71 Ford Galaxie.

[bsc]

I have no real idea about the tracks finances, my point was that they sold 450k tickets for the event, even if they were all 300 quid each that is over 120 million, for one event, costs 25 mill to host, still a tidy sim!  Plus turf income from stalls, merch.

Without wishing to go to far off on a tangent - although 450,000 spectators has been bandied around, it does not equate to 450,000 individuals. This is because the attendance from Thursday (which I find a bit odd given there is no track action); Friday; Saturday; and Sunday are aggregated together to get the figure. Therefore, an individual attending every day will be counted as four spectators, even though it is only a single person. Quite why this is necessary is debatable. 

 

Also, Silverstone only receives the revenue from the ticket sales - everything else (down to, and including, ice creams) goes to F1. 

 

Wouldn't disagree that there are more pleasing venues to attend. 

[flatlandsman]

Interesting. I am tempted to argue!

 

They sell their OWN merch, that is all for them.  All sales pitches will pay them a hefty fee or percentage, they sell their OWN drinks and food.  While I agree the advertising etc is not theirs, they do get a little more income than ONLY gate receipts I think. And I was just doing very basic maths on what is announced as crowd vs the cheapest basic ticketing price roughly for the three days. 

 

the reason it counts as fours speccies is because the ticket covers every day so is four actual sales. it is probably to di with some accounting trickery. 

 

I too also have found the app not being recognised by people on the gate. 

[mariner]

I ahve done some research so I will try to make this my last post here 

 

Neither the Albert Hall nor the Royal Opera House use only digital ticketing, you can print a paper ticket at home and show that  I guess security inside a London theatre is less risky than the open spaces of the Silverstone Classic?

 

For the Beyonce concerts in London recently it was digital only but as far as an attendee I know can recall no date of birth info.  is requested by Ticketmaster. Also their app is seamlessly linked to your purchase account, unlike Silverstone where you must re-enter all your data .into their app.

 

As a practical note for people like me ,using Silverstone digital ticketing for the first time if you bought more than one ticket then  you have "Guest(s") . They will be on your app ok  BUT if you want them to be able to leave/enter etc. without you you must ask them to download the app. and populate it with all the required data. - that is per the Classic FAQ's 

 

I am left thinking any security arguments by Silverstone are invalid as I don't know how a private organisation would be able to identify a protester without access to the police databases?

 

In terms of speed of entry reading a paper ticket QR code is just as quick as reading a phone .

 

So back to the original question I think. If MSV can sell you a Brands Historics ticket on the gate with just card why do Silverstone need such much personal data and multiple  app. data loading for their Classic event 

 

PS for those of you who are web hounds the ticket app owners are based in the British Indian Ocean Territory which as no permanent inhabitants but is famous as the location of the US Diego Garcia strategic military base!!

Edited by mariner, 24 July 2023 - 16:40.

[RCH]

Couple of points:

 

I don't do apps, perhaps I should say I try not to get involved, I don't understand them and my "smart"phone has a habit of rejecting them. How many people are there like me who would love to go to the Silverstone event but cannot be bothered if the ticketing is not straightforward? Are there still people who turn up at the gate expecting to be able to buy a ticket?

 

Back in the days of the Coys Festival we had trade stands. The first couple of years we were there the charge was very reasonable then suddenly out of the blue the cost for the minimum amount of space we needed rocketed by 17 times! Needless to say it was unaffordable. Coys fell apart soon after that. When the Historic event got going again we were sent a brochure of the events for that year. We were interested in the Historic Festival and a sportscar event, WEC or GT can't remember now, The cost for a minimum space, £2,500 each. Out of interest I checked out the British GP, £27,000! Clearly this was all out of the question for a poor, struggling model car retailer. Then nearer the event we were made an offer, the 2 events for £500!  From our point of view neither event lived up to our expectations and we didn't go again. This was back in the "noughties", how much are they trying to con out of people now and are they showing as much incompetence in their planning? 

Edited by RCH, 25 July 2023 - 09:28.

[flatlandsman]

Very interesting from a business viewpoint.  It is the same with the NEC i think, initially when it was new thing and a novelty it was amazing, there were loads of different types of stands you had loads of merch, karting, manufacturers, series etc.  And like most thing it has been dumbed down and price raked so that now it has become a shadow of itself.

 

I find it staggering that for the F1 weekend a merch or anything stand has to fork out 27K, that can't be right lol!! The only people that would pay that are surely manufacturers like big car makers?  The footfall alone means it is a no brainer for a Ford, Toyota etc to have that stand somewhere with massive footfall. 

 

But for merch, you can't seriously sell that much merch to cover that cost?

 

The app thing is surely just cost benefit, less people dealing with tickets, (even tough its all automated must take some admin?)  I can see no other benefit other than what others have said about data, maybe these app manufacturer is wanting the data they get and Silverstone are happy to comply as it gives the cost savings aswell as an easier method for point of sale. 

[Vitesse2]

Some retailers at Silverstone may well be using a system commonly called over-riders, whereby they come to an agreement for a particular event that the manufacturer(s) of some ranges of clothing, models, etc supply them exclusively, at very preferential terms, either by a simple cash payment or by giving an extra discount over and above their normal terms in return for an order of an agreed size. So essentially, the manufacturer is paying for shelf space - and probably a prime selling spot within the stand - in the hope of increased sales through that exclusive outlet, while at the same time subsidising the retailer's costs.

 

This sort of arrangement was rife in the book trade in the 90s and 00s, with publishers paying large amounts to retailers like Dillons, WH Smith, Borders and Waterstones for prime spots, with no regard to the suitability of the book for individual branches; what sells in Canterbury probably won't work in Gateshead - and vice versa. And of course if a book is unreadable and/or gets bad reviews then even pushing it hard won't sell it anywhere. One of the first things James Daunt did when he was brought in to run Waterstones was knock those arrangements on the head and start returning responsibility for buying to branches rather than everything being dictated by head office. That's why your local Waterstones is a better shop now ...

 

Back in the 1970s the small bookseller I worked for - King's of Lymington - was getting payments from the major sailing publishers which more than covered the costs of our stall at Southampton Boat Show. Only Stanfords had their own stand (and even they paid us!), while Adlard Coles, Nautical, Conway, Imray and PSL (who represented several US firms in those days) were all happy to pony up and let us do the donkey work. The orders were fully SOR - although we seldom sent anything back as we were one of the leading specialists in sailing books - and sometimes at extra discounts as well. Reeds just gave us exclusive rights to their nautical almanac, a month before the official publication date, and we'd usually sell 150-200 copies in the week of the show, mainly to foreign buyers. We had one regular Dutch customer who bought a dozen every year!

 

And the data? Well, you may be the customer, but you're also the product ...

[2F-001]

The advance-sales-only ticketing (regardless of method or technology) does have the added advantage for a venue of getting some sure money in regardless of the weather on the day.

[RCH]

 

I find it staggering that for the F1 weekend a merch or anything stand has to fork out 27K, that can't be right lol!! The only people that would pay that are surely manufacturers like big car makers?  The footfall alone means it is a no brainer for a Ford, Toyota etc to have that stand somewhere with massive footfall. 

 

But for merch, you can't seriously sell that much merch to cover that cost?

 

 

I very much doubt that anyone paid that much for the BGP. Probably came down considerably when they realised no one would be that daft and some people knew the right person to talk to. Would have needed to have sold my entire stock at premium prices...

[Gav Astill]

As the operations manager of a major HMG owned company's HR system, I'm trained to the hilt in the whys and wherefores of GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) legislation. Take a gander at https://en.wikipedia...tion_Regulation in particular the sentence;

 

"A data controller may not refuse service to users who decline consent to processing that is not strictly necessary in order to use the service."

 

I've just had to sign up to this app to attend Sunday's British MotoGP and there is no way that it is GDPR compliant (incidentally Brexit has no material affect on GDPR), so in my view Silverstone are breaking the law, either knowingly or through incompetence.

 

You have a legal right to object, without prejudice, and to have your data identified to you and removed.