25 replies to this topic

[TerryS]

The Pantera Ford V 8 that dominated the 1985 Australian GT championship is now for sale.

 

There are ads on both UK and Aussie sites for it.

 

Racecarsdirect.com - Detomaso Pantera Group4 Sports Race Car

 

1985 De Tomaso Pantera Group 4 - Australia's Number 1 Motorsport Marketplace - my105.com

 

There is a slight difference in price between the two ads:

 

On the UK site it is GBP 250,000 which translates to AUD as AUD 497,000.

 

On the Aussie site it is AUD 269,000.

 

So which site would you buy from?

 

 

[E1pix]

The one offering it for 50. ;-)

I got a ride in one once, and have to say the thing was *awesome*.

[Lee Nicolle]

There is Amaroo footage on You Tube with KB driving and it did not win. From my vague recollection it had the potential to be quick but was not. Anybody else with better memories of the car. One presumes it should race as a Sports Car,, what category though I do not know. Sports Sedan? No. Though it did race with them in period

[GazChed]

The Pantera Ford V 8 that dominated the 1985 Australian GT championship is now for sale.

There are ads on both UK and Aussie sites for it.

Racecarsdirect.com - Detomaso Pantera Group4 Sports Race Car

1985 De Tomaso Pantera Group 4 - Australia's Number 1 Motorsport Marketplace - my105.com

There is a slight difference in price between the two ads:

On the UK site it is GBP 250,000 which translates to AUD as AUD 497,000.

On the Aussie site it is AUD 269,000.

So which site would you buy from?

Just had a look at the racecarsdirect advert and it is in Euros albeit still listed as €250,000 which in Australian Dollars is just over AUS$408,000, still a lot more than the my105.com advert.

[TerryS]

There is Amaroo footage on You Tube with KB driving and it did not win. From my vague recollection it had the potential to be quick but was not. Anybody else with better memories of the car. One presumes it should race as a Sports Car,, what category though I do not know. Sports Sedan? No. Though it did race with them in period

 

I agree Lee it is ludicrous. for this car to run as a Sports Sedan now.

 

There used to be a Sports Sedan regulation that a rear engined sports sedan had to have been log booked before a certain date.

Unfortunately I can't find this regulation now.

[Lee Nicolle]

It was raced and I presume built for GT category that lasted 2 years and were always padded out by Sports Sedans. To me the end of GTs was the shunt at AIR when Brock turned left off the start in the Jane Monza and unloaded the top third of the field. Especially Tony Hubbards Falcon coupe that got very high in the air and the lift off front ended behind the stands.

As for the Pantera,, the history given sounds suspect to me.

[TerryS]

 

As for the Pantera,, the history given sounds suspect to me.

 

Lee, I agree with your suspicions about this car’s advertised 1985 race form.

 

In both the Aussie and UK ads it states in 1985 the car easily won ALL races.

This is COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

 

Have a look at this site on the 1985 Championship. It shows a rather different scene to the ad.

1985 Australian GT Championship - Wikipedia    

[ellrosso]

Yes, I was looking forward to finally seeing the car in the flesh at the AIR round in 1985 but it didn't show. 

Edited by ellrosso, 31 July 2023 - 03:30.

[Librules]

Just to muddy the waters even further,  the '85 championship was two categories in the one race.  It combined the GT's as above but also a separate class for sports cars such as the Clearihan and Romano Kaditchas and Terry Hook's Lola etc.     As a result,  KB did win the GT class in the 2nd heat at Oran Park but was 2nd outright to Chris Clearihan..   Similarly at Winton, he won the GT class in both heats but was only 3rd in the first heat behind Terry Hook and Ray Hanger (He did win the 2nd outright).    At Calder he was again third outright behind John Bowe in the newish Veskanda and Terry Hook.

 

Despite all this, it's still an iconic racing car and I'd love to see it run again even if only as a demonstration car.  It certainly generated a lot of interest when Larry Perkins ran it at the AGP and Phlliip Island historics in 2013.

[lyntonh]

Just to muddy the waters even further,  the '85 championship was two categories in the one race.  It combined the GT's as above but also a separate class for sports cars such as the Clearihan and Romano Kaditchas and Terry Hook's Lola etc.     As a result,  KB did win the GT class in the 2nd heat at Oran Park but was 2nd outright to Chris Clearihan..   Similarly at Winton, he won the GT class in both heats but was only 3rd in the first heat behind Terry Hook and Ray Hanger (He did win the 2nd outright).    At Calder he was again third outright behind John Bowe in the newish Veskanda and Terry Hook.

 

Despite all this, it's still an iconic racing car and I'd love to see it run again even if only as a demonstration car.  It certainly generated a lot of interest when Larry Perkins ran it at the AGP and Phlliip Island historics in 2013.

Using the link posted with indignation above, the pointscoring system was confusing....

 

Firstly, there were different numbers of races at different rounds, with aggregate points being halved at Oran Park.

 

The car appears to have won every GT Championship race it ran in that year, so the 'ALL' races may refer to that.

[TerryS]

Using the link posted with indignation above, the pointscoring system was confusing....

 

 

Why with "indignation"?

[Ray Bell]

Indignation: "Anger or annoyance provoked by what is perceived as unfair treatment."

 

Yes, I can see what he's saying there, Terry. No matter how justified you feel you are, that's the way it is seen by others.

[Doug Nye]

Good Lord...  "A famous Pantera".  

 

I never realised there was such a thing.   

 

DCN

[lyntonh]

I do a lot of 'indignation' myself, so I can spot it immediately, because it's usually unnecessary, 

which once I settle down, can prove embarassing.

 

 

A cock of the eyebrow says....'That doesn't seem right....I'll check the records'....

 

Indignation....especially 'righteous indignation', which I'm also known for at times, shouts.......

'This is COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.'

Edited by lyntonh, 01 August 2023 - 05:30.

[TerryS]

Now had a chance to dig out old records and see the real story.

 

The claims in ads "easily won all four races" and "won every race" are incorrect.

 

At Oran Park for second round of GT Championship there were two races for the round. IN the first race the Pantera was 4th on grid,and maintained 4th until halfway through the race when it retired with fuel pick up problems.

 

So, it did NOT win all races.

[lyntonh]

Now had a chance to dig out old records and see the real story.

 

The claims in ads "easily won all four races" and "won every race" are incorrect.

 

At Oran Park for second round of GT Championship there were two races for the round. IN the first race the Pantera was 4th on grid,and maintained 4th until halfway through the race when it retired with fuel pick up problems.

 

So, it did NOT win all races.

They need to alter the advert to say 'won all races that it finished.'

 

Well spotted.

 

I suspect that the person who eventually forks out the money will realise that the car had a very brief and dominant career,

So dominant that the category rules were changed to drag it back to the pace of the rest of the field.

 

The new owner will obviously need to find that appealing.

Edited by lyntonh, 02 August 2023 - 02:22.

[MarkBisset]

Rusty French is probably kicking the tyres as we speak Lynton.

 

He has two Panteras at least already - one the factory racer we all saw him run in the day, the other the historic one garaged alongside 'my' Ace at the AGP - all he needs to do is push a couple of extra trucks of sand out the door down Franger way and pocket the loose change on the deal. I know another bloke who'd love to have it too, and could probably afford it.

 

Fancy the vendor of a 'racecar' (hate that word, what happened to the far more civilised 'racing car'?) not telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? A novel concept. Not that Halstead seems to have got it too far wrong.

 

I've always loved Barry Lock's work - re-engineering of the Kaditcha DFL (aka Romano) by Wayne Eckersley duly noted - and always thought it a shame one of his F Pac g/e cars never found its way into a really gifted pair of hands.

 

I had a good look at the Pantera at MotorClassica last year, it certainly moved the boy-juices for me, quite a jigger and Freddy Fuddpucka up the road doesn't have one, them Lambos are a dime a dozen matey...

Edited by MarkBisset, 02 August 2023 - 05:57.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Rather O/T but it does concern a Pantera...

 

Back in the mid to late 1970's when I ran my Crossle 30 out of the late Ron Stott's Cherokee Industries shop in Toronto, one of the other shop customers...name of Dennis, I seem to recall...owned a road-going Pantera.  I don't remember whether he ever brought it into the shop as I don't seem to have a recollection of seeing it in the flesh.  What I do recall quite distinctly was that he had serious troubles with the transaxle.  The input shaft was toast and a replacement part seemed either hard to come by or very expensive.  Apparently, he found that an input shaft for a Chevy Corvair would fit and in trying a couple in the transaxle, they promptly sheared not expecting the torque load.

[MarkBisset]

Cheers Manfred,

 

A mate of mine, Ross Jackson has raced one in our historic Group S for 25 years or so and I know the driveline, inclusive of ZF 'box, requires skilled, regular maintenance but the power/torque of that thing would be far greater than the standard car. I would have thought in 'stockish' form that tranny would have been man enough for the job.

 

I'm not so sure you could ever buy a Pantera new over-the-counter here? but quite a few ex-US cars were imported from the States when the Pacific-Peso (Oz $) was beefy against the US$ 20 or so years ago. Never driven one, would love to tho...

 

m

[Emery0323]

Good Lord...  "A famous Pantera".  

 

I never realised there was such a thing.   

 

DCN

My thoughts exactly!   

The world's  most famous Pantera is the one that Elvis Presley shot in a fit of rage. It would not start, and he'd just had an argument with a girlfriend.

I saw it in the Peterson Museum in Los Angeles years ago, the bullet hole in the steering wheel is dimly visible in the all-black interior.

[TerryS]

As the last four posts are O/T it would seem this thread has run its course.

[E1pix]

All posts above use the word “Pantera...” regardless, posters sometimes reminisce how they damned-well please. You can ignore if not interesting enough.

Some here will recall the Pantera that Warren Tope ran here in Trans-Am as pretty darned famous; well-prepared, well-driven, but short of enough time to be reliable. Hugh Kleinpeter ran one in IMSA, and to better effect if I recall.

[lyntonh]

As the last four posts are O/T it would seem this thread has run its course.

You really know how to make people welcome in your threads, dont you.

And that pompous petulant comment has finally convinced me to NEVER involve myself in a future discussion in which you participate.

Edited by lyntonh, 03 August 2023 - 04:24.

[Balltom]

Chris Meek had a famous Pantera around 1973/74

 

photo upload
 

As the last four posts are O/T it would seem this thread has run its course.

   
The thread never had a ‘course’……

[John Ginger]

I had forgotten the Chris Meek car, Pantera has always been a favourite and I too would love to drive one (Sorry, I am not famous though  )

[Lee Nicolle]

They need to alter the advert to say 'won all races that it finished.'

 

Well spotted.

 

I suspect that the person who eventually forks out the money will realise that the car had a very brief and dominant career,

So dominant that the category rules were changed to drag it back to the pace of the rest of the field.

 

The new owner will obviously need to find that appealing.

A very brief and NOT dominant career.

As for GT cars? Take away the 935s and the Jane Monza good sports sedans were faster anyway.

The race I saw on You Tube recently had the Pantera trailing sports sedans and understeering like a pig. At Amaroo. A 'Super 100mph ' clip.