81 replies to this topic

[1player]

This week F1TV has decided to stop all paying users that were connecting through a VPN instead of giving their hard earned money to Sky or your local monopoly equivalent.

 

I am furious. I'm in Britain, not interested paying for Sky just to watch F1, so I used a VPN and paid F1TV directly. Apparently Domenicali & co. don't like my money anymore, so it's back to the shady streams. And back to Crofty

 

Sky is a scourge, and F1TV prefers to lose money, instead of just closing an eye and getting the money directly. Shame on them.

[SenorSjon]

In Britian you aren't allowed to use F1TV. Sky bought that off.

[1player]

In Britian you aren't allowed to use F1TV. Sky bought that off.

I know, that's the point.

 

VPNs were a way to avoid giving money to Sky, but F1TV decided they'd rather lose me (and many others) as customers instead.

[goldenboy]

I know, that's the point.

 

VPNs were a way to avoid giving money to Sky, but F1TV decided they'd rather lose me (and many others) as customers instead.

Must have been brought about by Sky wanting it enforced.

[1player]

McLaren is sooo quick sector 2

You're in the wrong thread mate

[xstatic345]

If someone is going to the extent of getting a vpn subscription and then paying F1TV then it is fair to assume they are a committed fan. If I were still in the UK I wouldn't be going out and subscribing to Sky, the last race I watched with their commentary was Belgium last year and I ended up skipping through to the end, total rubbish.

Luckily for me I can continue watching on Dazn, I will miss the onboards but at least this will force me to learn more Spanish.

[pdac]

I know, that's the point.

 

VPNs were a way to avoid giving money to Sky, but F1TV decided they'd rather lose me (and many others) as customers instead.

 

I guess there are a bunch of others like you, who were using a VPN to get access to F1TV. Maybe some of those will now go to Sky. They may lose your money, but they might get someone else's.

 

Plus, accessing F1 via an out-of-country VPN will skew the market share figures.

Edited by pdac, 28 July 2023 - 15:58.

[Laster]

Yeah I was using the VPN too to watch driver onboards a couple days after the race and catching up on all the wonderful overtakes that the coverage ignores. I hate that Sky effectively cut me off from that and denied me being able to see all that F1 has to offer. Now I’m denied it once more it’s very frustrating. I can only hope the VPN companies are able to find further ways around it.

[PlatenGlass]

How do they stop them? I thought VPNs were supposed to be a sneaky way around geographical-based blocking and if they're working, you shouldn't be able to tell.

[Bendo]

I guess there are a bunch of others like you, who were using a VPN to get access to F1TV. Maybe some of those will now go to Sky. They may lose your money, but they might get someone else's.

Plus, accessing F1 via an out-of-country VPN will skew the market share figures.

People who were using a VPN to access the service clearly have a level of technical knowledge. I'd have thought they would be more likely to use an illegal IPTV service instead. Seems a short sighted decision.

[goldenboy]

How do they stop them? I thought VPNs were supposed to be a sneaky way around geographical-based blocking and if they're working, you shouldn't be able to tell.

They get beaten all the time now. 

[PayasYouRace]

This week F1TV has decided to stop all paying users that were connecting through a VPN instead of giving their hard earned money to Sky or your local monopoly equivalent.

 

I am furious. I'm in Britain, not interested paying for Sky just to watch F1, so I used a VPN and paid F1TV directly. Apparently Domenicali & co. don't like my money anymore, so it's back to the shady streams. And back to Crofty

 

Sky is a scourge, and F1TV prefers to lose money, instead of just closing an eye and getting the money directly. Shame on them.

You can access Sky with NowTV without paying extortionate rates for a Sky package. And you can dip in and out as you need to.

[flatlandsman]

I suppose you can watch it in other ways should you wish, but there is the downside of quality and worry.

 

For me I cannot really understand the desperation to watch it anyway, but I seem to be int he vast minority with that.

[1player]

You can access Sky with NowTV without paying extortionate rates for a Sky package. And you can dip in and out as you need to.

It's ₤34.99 a month, F1TV is about $80 a YEAR. It's extortionate.

 

Work hasn't been great, I'm not keen on paying ₤420 a year to watch F1.

[1player]

How do they stop them? I thought VPNs were supposed to be a sneaky way around geographical-based blocking and if they're working, you shouldn't be able to tell.

They are able to see the IP address you're coming from, and who owns it. Then it's just a matter of blocking the IP blocks of known VPN companies.

 

I could get a server to bypass this naive block, but it's the principle of geoblocking that irritates me to no end. Piracy exists because companies are too stupid and short-sighted. Piracy, as Gabe Newell says, is a service problem.

[mmmcurry]

Just cancelled my Sky as it wasn't worth the cost for what we used it for. I'll be mixing Channel 4 highlights with BT 24hr access if Liverpool play a match they cover over a GP weekend and split the cost with my father in law. The other option is watch it at the local pub, but that could cost a bit in beer.

[PayasYouRace]

It's ₤34.99 a month, F1TV is about $80 a YEAR. It's extortionate.

 

Work hasn't been great, I'm not keen on paying ₤420 a year to watch F1.

It’s always cheaper to watch it illegally. Tough cookies if your little trick has been closed.

[cjm321190]

You can access Sky with NowTV without paying extortionate rates for a Sky package. And you can dip in and out as you need to.

I pay now tv £20 a month for all sky sports so i get the cricket ashes indycar and F1 .

Give them a call and ask for their best deal. The £34.99 price is for the lazy via web, discounts in second year anyways as it goes to £20 when you try and quit.

Edited by cjm321190, 28 July 2023 - 18:01.

[Red5ive]

This week F1TV has decided to stop all paying users that were connecting through a VPN instead of giving their hard earned money to Sky or your local monopoly equivalent.

 

I am furious. I'm in Britain, not interested paying for Sky just to watch F1, so I used a VPN and paid F1TV directly. Apparently Domenicali & co. don't like my money anymore, so it's back to the shady streams. And back to Crofty

 

Sky is a scourge, and F1TV prefers to lose money, instead of just closing an eye and getting the money directly. Shame on them.

 

You seem to be overlooking the small fact that what you are doing is illegal - oh the outrage !

 

Anyway just try a different (less well known) VPN or just keep reconnecting with the bigger ones who use multiple ips - you should find a lower traffic server that isnt flagged eventually.

Edited by Red5ive, 28 July 2023 - 18:03.

[loki]

It’s always been in the terms and conditions for using F1TV that using a VPN wasn’t allowed.  

[Primo]

This week F1TV has decided to stop all paying users that were connecting through a VPN instead of giving their hard earned money to Sky or your local monopoly equivalent.

 

I am furious. I'm in Britain, not interested paying for Sky just to watch F1, so I used a VPN and paid F1TV directly. Apparently Domenicali & co. don't like my money anymore, so it's back to the shady streams. And back to Crofty

 

Sky is a scourge, and F1TV prefers to lose money, instead of just closing an eye and getting the money directly. Shame on them.

Did some shopping today. Wanted to make sume burrata with tomatoes and basil as entree, then pasta salsiccia-aubergine-zuccini followed by grilled gilt-head bream and finish it with yorkshire pudding filled with raspberry icecream (delicios, try it). I thought to pair it with a Nivvro from Puglia, a dry primitivo, and a portwine for the dessert.

So I went to Modern Shop to buy what I needed. In the box with pasta there was also oatmeal, shoe cream, a clothes hanger and some cheewing gum, I guess I can use that later one day. The vegetable box had tomatoes, zuccini, onions and a toilet brush (I felt that was a bit odd), but no aubergines. Luckily I found aubergines in a wine box, wich also contained a one year subscription for House & Lobotomy, so I picked that one up. Unfortunately, the wine was a Rioja that I did not like and the Nivvro box did not have aubergines, so in that box I also got a chainsaw, half a liter of milk and a dentist appointment. I was almost set, just needed the raspberries, the bream and the portwine, all of which I knew I could find at  the black market near the harbour.

I wish we did not have to buy FE, F1, Norsemen, PGA etcetera in boxes. It is okay that we can, but it sucks when that is the only way to buy them.

[Jellyfishcake]

For those who are stuck with Sky for the visuals, I highly recommend syncing up and using BBC radio as the commentary if you are able to do so.

 

Have been doing it for about 4 or so years now, vastly improved enjoyment 

[F1 Mike]

Frustrating thing for me is I actually pay for NowTV to watch Sky Sports but they don't supply the additional onboards on that service so I have F1TV as for the additional streams.
Investigating alternative plans

[Bendo]

You seem to be overlooking the small fact that what you are doing is illegal - oh the outrage !

It's against the terms and conditions of the service but it isn't illegal. Ironically those that were accessing it that way probably will just be driven to illegal services that are cheaper.

[pdac]

It's against the terms and conditions of the service but it isn't illegal. Ironically those that were accessing it that way probably will just be driven to illegal services that are cheaper.

 

It's a violation of the contract between you and them. In theory, I guess they could sue you. But that would be impractical for many reasons. But I think they could remove your service without refunding or compensating you in any way, should they wish to.

[1player]

It's against the terms and conditions of the service but it isn't illegal. Ironically those that were accessing it that way probably will just be driven to illegal services that are cheaper.

Exactly. I pay for the things I use, except if the price is unreasonable. I do not watch other sports and do not care for the full Sky package. F1TV was a gray area (but I was a paying customer), so I was not stealing from "anybody". F1TV decided they don't like my money anymore, and it's not going to Sky. I'd rather spend it on whiskey and to pirate.

 

And I don't understand people that takes the defense of corporations. Oh, should I feel sorry for Domenicali and co.? There would be more F1 fans worldwide if they didn't care about money over accessibility, and didn't sell out to Sky. I put my money where my mouth is, and avoid paying companies with silly restrictions.

 

The only thing that truly irritates me is that all streams are with Crofty and co. F1 without Palmer, Jacques, Collins is not as good, in my opinion.

[Bendo]

Yep. All they have done is reduced their own income. Technically it's probably part of their agreement with the exclusive broadcasters to take steps to block it but anyone with sufficient knowledge of VPNs can probably work out IPTV where pretty much every channel you can imagine is available including all the F1TV streams.

[1player]

From what I'm reading on Reddit, they've done such a cracking job with the VPN block, there's legit people from the USA and India, without a VPN, that have been blocked and couldn't watch quali.

[TomNokoe]

I understand why they've done it but it's still a shame.

Not only is Sky really expensive - at least £20pm on NowTV, upwards of £50pm with a proper TV package, versus only £7pm for F1TV, the product is worse.

F1TV has zero ads, lets you choose an alternate English commentary team (or you can remove commentary altogether if you wish), has instant and unlimited onboard cameras, reliable F2/F3 streams (Sky sometimes miss these).

Also, many UK viewers use NowTV or Sky Go, which has no record function and very limited catch-up or on-demand features, so if you miss a session, you have to wait until it's being re-run to watch, whereas F1TV lets you replay sessions as soon as they finish, or if you join halfway through watch from the start.

Edited by TomNokoe, 28 July 2023 - 19:18.

[pdac]

I understand why they've done it but it's still a shame.

Not only is Sky really expensive - at least £20pm on NowTV, upwards of £50pm with a proper TV package, versus only £7pm for F1TV, the product is worse.

F1TV has zero ads, lets you choose an alternate English commentary team (or you can remove commentary altogether if you wish), has instant and unlimited onboard cameras, reliable F2/F3 streams (Sky sometimes miss these).

Also, many UK viewers use NowTV or Sky Go, which has no record function and very limited catch-up or on-demand features, so if you miss a session, you have to wait until it's being re-run to watch, whereas F1TV lets you replay sessions as soon as they finish, or if you join halfway through watch from the start.

 

Yes, it's very odd that what made (makes) Sky's satellite broadcast system superior to other services is their record and live pause/rewind features. They are trying to switch over to internet broadcasting, but they're not offering the features that differentiate them (favourably) from the rest in their services on that platform.

Edited by pdac, 28 July 2023 - 19:24.

[loki]

Yep. All they have done is reduced their own income. Technically it's probably part of their agreement with the exclusive broadcasters to take steps to block it but anyone with sufficient knowledge of VPNs can probably work out IPTV where pretty much every channel you can imagine is available including all the F1TV streams.

Unless a new VPN protocol is developed it won't be able to dodge deep packet inspection.   Possible but I don’t know how likely it would be.

 

Economics of F1 streaming vs. Sky from the rights holder view.

 

Sky deal reportedly worth GBP 1 bil for 5 years = 250 mil/yr.

 

US cost for season of F1 Pro is = GBP 62.

 

Average UK viewers 2 mil/race

 

Number of subscribers required for F1 to make what they make from Sky not counting infrasturcture and distribution = 4 mil unique subscribers per race.  For every race for 5 years.

 

It’s as simple as that.

[MikeTekRacing]

it's probably the entities that bought the rights in various geos pushing F1 so they are able to make their profits.

Unfortunate but I think it can be worked around but harder...

[flatlandsman]

There is a choice

 

But you will not like it, if enough people cancel and stop they will have to change. 

[Bendo]

Unless a new VPN protocol is developed it won't be able to dodge deep packet inspection. Possible but I don’t know how likely it would be.

The block will be based on commercially available databases of known VPN ips. There is no way to identify the traffic has gone via a VPN other than that.

[MikeTekRacing]

they probably just blacklisted the IPs used by most VPN sites...not hard to do

[BoDarvelle]

F1TV has zero ads, lets you choose an alternate English commentary team (or you can remove commentary altogether if you wish), has instant and unlimited onboard cameras, reliable F2/F3 streams (Sky sometimes miss these).

 

And you can do this;

[pdac]

The block will be based on commercially available databases of known VPN ips. There is no way to identify the traffic has gone via a VPN other than that.

 

I would guess that it can be identified - it's only private whilst it's in transit. However, I agree that they are probably just blocking based on known IPs.

[Timorous]

It’s always cheaper to watch it illegally. Tough cookies if your little trick has been closed.

Nothing illegal about it. Not in the UK atleast.

What it will be is a contract issue between FOM and the broadcasters like sky who probably have clauses around blocking vpns and other ways to spoof your location.

Netflix and other steaming platforms have the same agreements and periodically VPNs will stop working on Netflix, then the VPN provider refreshes all of its IPs and it works again until that list gets blocked and the merry go round keeps on spinning.

I suppose F1TV blocking all of them in one go probably creates a big splash so if it gets questioned by a broadcaster they have something concrete to point to.

Edited by Timorous, 28 July 2023 - 21:24.

[MikeTekRacing]

it's not per-se ilegal, but it's against the spirit of the law . That doesn't mean you should not do it, just don't be too surprised when it doesn't work...

[chhatra]

Just lost access today too. Sucks but I knew there was always a chance when I signed up.

Would probably pay full Sky if there were more teams winning(especially McLaren), but I’ll stick to highlights.

Hoping F1 come to their senses and open up F1 TV to all. I’m sure they would make more money and reach a bigger audience.

[MikeTekRacing]

I don't know if they can open up F1tv - depends when the Sky contract runs out

[Timorous]

it's not per-se ilegal, but it's against the spirit of the law . That doesn't mean you should not do it, just don't be too surprised when it doesn't work...

Not in the UK. Maybe in China or other states where VPNs themselves are illegal.

It is perfectly legal to do that, especially if you are paying for access with an F1TV pro subscription. It is also legal for providers to block VPN IP blocks so meh it is what it is.

OTOH I can watch it via RTBF Auvio but I need to sync up the BBC radio Comms to get it in English and that is too much hassle at nearly 11 so shall have a busy day watching quali, sprint quali and the sprint race tomorrow while waiting for express VPN to update some of their servers to use different IPs.

[F1Gui]

I found a site that streams F1 and all other sports for free in HD. Occasionally a bit of buffering but only for a couple of seconds at a time. Sometimes no buffering at all. I watch via my PC hooked up to my tv.

 

My dad set up his firestick with various apps and also watches the F1 in HD on that for free also.

 

I was a Sky customer for 8 years but their pricing is ridiculous and the way they package their channels is crap. Originally back in 2013 when I joined I was paying £18.25 per month. This was the entertainment pack + kids + HD pack which included the F1 channel. Their prices have went up massively since then and I left in early 2021.

[GuilhermeMach]

You can access Sky with NowTV without paying extortionate rates for a Sky package. And you can dip in and out as you need to.

 

 

You seem to be overlooking the small fact that what you are doing is illegal - oh the outrage !

 

Anyway just try a different (less well known) VPN or just keep reconnecting with the bigger ones who use multiple ips - you should find a lower traffic server that isnt flagged eventually.

Won't somebody think of the poor media conglomerates??

 

Question: did F1TV accept British-based payment methods (credit cards for example) or did you have to use a VPN to buy the subscription? Because if they did accept them, then THAT should be illegal. You can't take someone's money and then deny the service.

[pdac]

Not in the UK. Maybe in China or other states where VPNs themselves are illegal.

It is perfectly legal to do that, especially if you are paying for access with an F1TV pro subscription. It is also legal for providers to block VPN IP blocks so meh it is what it is.

OTOH I can watch it via RTBF Auvio but I need to sync up the BBC radio Comms to get it in English and that is too much hassle at nearly 11 so shall have a busy day watching quali, sprint quali and the sprint race tomorrow while waiting for express VPN to update some of their servers to use different IPs.

 

It's against the terms and conditions of the service provider (F1TV). F1TV are totally within their right to block anyone who is trying to access their service in contravention to their terms and conditions. If you do not abide by the terms and conditions of the contract, then you are nullifying your contract with F1TV.

[loki]

The block will be based on commercially available databases of known VPN ips. There is no way to identify the traffic has gone via a VPN other than that.

 

It’s possible to detect tunneling at the edge of a network.  Proxies can also be detected.  They can’t see the payload but can tell if it’s tunneled or proxied.  One example is using the application layer of the stack as opposed to using the network layer.  IP pool detection is the most elementary of the methods.  Other methods include port blocking and manipulation app/browser fingerprinting and deep packet inspection.  Your tunnel requires a specific port to acknowledge and open on request.  By using ports specific to the app rather than what’s used for the tunnel a connection can be blocked.  It’s likely a combination of all those technologies are being used.

[loki]

Just lost access today too. Sucks but I knew there was always a chance when I signed up.

Would probably pay full Sky if there were more teams winning(especially McLaren), but I’ll stick to highlights.

Hoping F1 come to their senses and open up F1 TV to all. I’m sure they would make more money and reach a bigger audience.

 

Modern media is about driving revenue rather than number of viewers.  Ad revenue doesn’t scale like subscription revenue.  The Sky audience accounted for about 3% of the total worldwide audience for F1.  Unfortunate for those that don’t have that option but those are the realities of modern media. It’s a culture and expectation issue where government mandated fees for owning a TV have skewed the market to expect content at low or no cost. 

[Bendo]

It’s possible to detect tunneling at the edge of a network. Proxies can also be detected. They can’t see the payload but can tell if it’s tunneled or proxied. One example is using the application layer of the stack as opposed to using the network layer. IP pool detection is the most elementary of the methods. Other methods include port blocking and manipulation app/browser fingerprinting and deep packet inspection. Your tunnel requires a specific port to acknowledge and open on request. By using ports specific to the app rather than what’s used for the tunnel a connection can be blocked. It’s likely a combination of all those technologies are being used.

Having never used F1TV so no idea how it's delivered, I'm going to stick to my original point, there is no way F1TV can tell if a VPN is in use other than byfinger printing (easy enough to fool) or by the IP. They aren't going to be doing anything intrusive on the client, where the VPN may not even be running anyway.

Given F1 is in bed with AWS, I'd imagine like most major streaming services, its hosted on AWS and that they are almost certainly just using the free AWS WAF anonymous IP rule set.

[loki]

Having never used F1TV so no idea how it's delivered, I'm going to stick to my original point, there is no way F1TV can tell if a VPN is in use other than byfinger printing (easy enough to fool) or by the IP. They aren't going to be doing anything intrusive on the client, where the VPN may not even be running anyway.

Given F1 is in bed with AWS, I'd imagine like most major streaming services, its hosted on AWS and that they are almost certainly just using the free AWS WAF anonymous IP rule set.

You would be well served to learn a bit more about how all this works.  

[F1 Mike]

Netflix had a go at blocking use of their overseas subs. It worked for a short time, but ultimately it wasn't successful in stopping those who are determined.

Don't give up ;)