137 replies to this topic

[IrvTheSwerve]

It feels as if we’re increasingly having drivers race into their 40s…and with modern sports science these guys are still extremely fit and competitive. Alonso is 42 so still has a way to go, but you wouldn’t be shocked if he was still around at 45, for example. Kimi is currently 43 and retired at 41.

 

Not sure when this last happened, but it was probably in the 1950s?

[AncientLurker]

I am ready to go!

[Muppetmad]

I could only ever see it as a one-off in very unique circumstances - circumstances so unlikely that my answer is, in effect, "no".

[Glengavel]

Louis Rosier, Germany 1956.

 

Luigi Fagioli, France 1951, is the only 50+ winner (he was 53). Next oldest is 46 (Farina and Fangio).

Edited by Glengavel, 31 July 2023 - 15:23.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I could only ever see it as a one-off in very unique circumstances - circumstances so unlikely that my answer is, in effect, "no".

That’s my thought too. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alonso filled in for someone as a one-off, for example.

[monolulu]

Sonny Hayes?

[Button4life]

Alonso is a young driver. He should be able to do at least 8 more years

[messy]

Nah, 50 is pushing it. In reality, I think it would only ever happen where a driver was over 41/42 if they were a) an absolute legend of the sport, and b) had returned from a break in competition that had reignited their fire. That accounts for Alonso and Schumacher. Kimi Raikkonen was just a very unusual case, and of course he’d had a couple of years out too albeit much earlier in his career.

Say Nico Rosberg wakes up tomorrow, thinks “I’m still fit enough, I want to come back” and is back on the grid in 2024. He’d be what, 39? And I bet he’d completely suck. You have to be an Alonso or a Schumacher, 98% of even the elite couldn’t pull off being competitive as the age creeps up. I think Lewis could do it, but having raced in F1 continuously since 2007 I’m really not expecting him to be around in four years time when he’s Fernando’s age.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Another poll that unites the forum, it seems. 

 

I voted 'no', but I think it's an outside possibility. We have drivers starting so early in their life now...Max would have been racing in F1 for 33 years if he raced at 50. 

[PayasYouRace]

Genuinely thought I’d not be the only one voting yes.

I think teams, lately, have been less bothered about age when a good experienced driver is about. Despite the lack of seats in F1, it appears if someone like Alonso wants to keep going and is still quick, it’s possible.

When I think about the single seater careers of the likes of AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti, a 30+ year career isn’t beyond the realms of possibility.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Genuinely thought I’d not be the only one voting yes.

I think teams, lately, have been less bothered about age when a good experienced driver is about. Despite the lack of seats in F1, it appears if someone like Alonso wants to keep going and is still quick, it’s possible.

When I think about the single seater careers of the likes of AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti, a 30+ year career isn’t beyond the realms of possibility.

 

I always avoid a 'maybe' option as I feel it's a bit of a cop out - but that is probably where I am. I think it's a distinct possibility (hence the thread) - but would Fernando (for example) be racing for another 8 years? It's not miles away, that's for sure...but who knows? If Aston Martin suddenly build a world-beating car and Fernando is racking up the championships, who's to say he won't stick around?

[IrvTheSwerve]

Maybe sabbaticals are the key to this...

[kumo7]

Alonso can, but teams will not take his service.

[Ruusperi]

Ever? Maybe in 2350 when Sainz Jr⁹ (born 2299) is still racing.

 

There's been many 50+ drivers in Indycar (especially in Indy500), so if there's a will, there's a way.

Perhaps in the future Drive to Surive will dictate what's going to happen in F1. Maybe they will have a "reunion episode" where old stars are paid 10 million per one race appearance. Might happen in a non-championship race, like Ross Brawn has suggested.

[Muppetmad]

The person to look at here, I think, is Hélio Castroneves: he finished 4th in IndyCar in 2017 at 42, and won the Indy 500 at 46 in 2021, but since then, he's had basically no form. Granted, he's not in the best team, but even so, he's looked more and more off the pace as time has gone by. He's now 48. Not even Alonso is immune to the effects of time.

[AlexPrime]

I doubt it, although it isn't completely impossible.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Alonso can, but teams will not take his service.

 

I think that depends on what his ambitions/intentions are at that age...if, for example, he's willing to drive a Williams or Haas when he's 45, he'll get very close. He might accept that the WDC is no longer in reach and that he just wants to race Formula 1 cars. If Alonso said to Williams that he would drive for them, I'm not sure they would turn him down, even at 45.

[PlatenGlass]

It seems unlikely but not necessarily because a driver that age couldn't be competitive. Other than WDC drivers, F1 most drivers will eventually get retired by F1 rather than actively retire. A driver in their late 30s is unlikely to be picked over a new talent. Barrichello seemed not to have lost anything much but was ultimately forced out, for example.

And as for the WDC drivers, most or all of them would choose to go by then. Alonso would probably not be here now if he'd won a third title at some point and he still is a way off 50. Hamilton has seven and will certainly want to move on at some point before then. It's difficult to see drivers wanting to keep up the intensity for that long.

[flatlandsman]

In F1 no but in certain others sport no problem at all. I could see a 50 year old Kristensen driving at Le Mans for instance or McNich.  Marcus Gronholm, Markku Alen and Juha kankkunen have driven in rallies at this age.  f1 is not that place. It is too competitive.  It is possible for a driver to still be good enough at that age but to last that long in f1 would be fairly ridiculous, I feel a driver would walk away for far more reasons than driving abliity. 

[noriaki]

Drivers usually hit a sharp decline at around 45-50 so it would take a freak like Mario Andretti to stay competitive in a single seater beyond 50. Alonso might be that freak, he seems to love being an F1 driver enough to possibly try and even succeed, but I don't see anybody else doing that unless the nature of the sport changes dramatically. 

Edited by noriaki, 31 July 2023 - 16:24.

[IrvTheSwerve]

The ever-expanding calendar may put older drivers off, for sure.

[Boxerevo]

[flatlandsman]

I can see Nando carrying on in the States for a few years after lacking in f1, I think Brown would welcome him back

[RacingFan10]

Seems like Fernando will hit 50 and still be competitive enough to beat Stroll

Edited by RacingFan10, 01 August 2023 - 18:40.

[BertoC]

Maybe sabbaticals are the key to this...

Yep, Mika is 54 and still on his sabbatical.

[AustinF1]

Maybe sabbaticals are the key to this...

Alonso says his did him a world of good.

[cbo]

Another poll that unites the forum, it seems.

I voted 'no', but I think it's an outside possibility. We have drivers starting so early in their life now...Max would have been racing in F1 for 33 years if he raced at 50.

Verstappen did drive the number 33 car until his first WDC......

Just sayin'......

[Risil]

I think we may see another 50-year-old Indycar driver, or Le Mans winner. F1, that's pushing it.

[Risil]

It seems unlikely but not necessarily because a driver that age couldn't be competitive. Other than WDC drivers, F1 most drivers will eventually get retired by F1 rather than actively retire. A driver in their late 30s is unlikely to be picked over a new talent. Barrichello seemed not to have lost anything much but was ultimately forced out, for example.

And as for the WDC drivers, most or all of them would choose to go by then. Alonso would probably not be here now if he'd won a third title at some point and he still is a way off 50. Hamilton has seven and will certainly want to move on at some point before then. It's difficult to see drivers wanting to keep up the intensity for that long.

I often think of something somebody here (P123 I think) said long ago when I pontificated about whether and why a particular driver had lost his early career speed with age, and he replied by saying that he'd been fortunate with cars early on and teams had probably just sussed out their level.

I do sort of wonder if that's what a lot of this is. That there are three or four drivers who are golden, and they keep getting results into their late thirties and forties because they truly had the speed to begin with. Maybe there really are a small handful of golden talents and the rest are have got to the top on a mixture of circumstances and faith in their own ability.

[goldenboy]

Brad Pitt says yes.

[Shambolic]

It all depends on if F1 can buck the global trend to worship the cult of youth, the pursuit of the next young prospect.

 

Inexperienced drivers getting a seat used to be a rarity brought about by obvious one in a million talent. Now if you've not won a race by the time you're 25 you're a journeyman on borrowed time.

 

The fans don't help, how many almost demand Alonso retire so some up coming name can get a shot, regardless of Alonso obviously still having the talent needed to earn a drive.

 

I want to see the best possible drivers filling the far too few spaces on the grid. If that means 50 year olds racing against 20 year olds, even better. Let the fastest driver win.

[MKSixer]

If not they can be 50-50-50* and still drive in NASCAR.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*50 years old, 50 lbs overweight and a 50 inch waist.**

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

**I'll show myself out as soon as I get my hat.

Edited by MKSixer, 31 July 2023 - 22:16.

[Leibowitz]

50? Don’t think so in the near future. 45 is likely (Alonso in 2026?).

[ARTGP]

No. 

[eab]

Depends -partly and largely- on whether Stroll Sr. still feels like running an F1 team in a quarter of a century from now.

[tourister46a]

Lawrence Stroll is going to be 89 years old when his son turns 50. With the advances in medicine, there's a more than even chance he is going to make it until then, so I voted yes

[AustinF1]

It all depends on if F1 can buck the global trend to worship the cult of youth, the pursuit of the next young prospect.

 

Inexperienced drivers getting a seat used to be a rarity brought about by obvious one in a million talent. Now if you've not won a race by the time you're 25 you're a journeyman on borrowed time.

 

The fans don't help, how many almost demand Alonso retire so some up coming name can get a shot, regardless of Alonso obviously still having the talent needed to earn a drive.

 

I want to see the best possible drivers filling the far too few spaces on the grid. If that means 50 year olds racing against 20 year olds, even better. Let the fastest driver win.

All. of. this.

[goldenboy]

Lawrence Stroll is going to be 89 years old when his son turns 50. With the advances in medicine, there's a more than even chance he is going to make it until then, so I voted yes

Lance will inherit everything anyway, so he will for sure be the first 50 year old driver    

[Glengavel]

Paul Newman was 47 when he started racing. 2nd at Le Mans in 1975 (age 50). Age 70, he shared the win in the GTS-1 class (and third overall) at the 1995 Daytona 24 Hours. He took part in the 2005 24 Hours, age 80. Hope for us all!

[Anderis]

I remember when I started watching F1 around 2007, it felt like we may never see a 40 years old F1 driver again. Everybody was retiring no later than around 37 or something like that, younger and younger drivers were reaching F1 and becoming good immediately and it seemed that maybe modern F1 is too draining for drivers after 40 to be competitive.

 

And yet a few years later having a driver over 40 on the grid was the norm. We've got de la Rosa, who was never even that good in his prime, yet still able to secure and F1 drive at 41. We've seen Schumacher becoming more competitive at 43 than he was at 41. Recently we've had Raikkonen and Alonso still beating their team mates at 42. Interesting how the trend has reversed.

Edited by Anderis, 01 August 2023 - 08:46.

[Risil]

A lot of the drivers of the nineties didn't stick around all that long. Jacques Villeneuve and Mika Hakkinen were done long before they turned 40. Jean Alesi and Heinz-Harald Frentzen probably could've kept going longer, or at any rate they hadn't lost their speed. There's also the fact that F1 changed enormously between about 1995 and 2005. The only driver who succeeded on both ends of that divide was Michael Schumacher.

I remember somebody saying, possibly David Coulthard, possibly not, that by the time a driver gets into his thirties he has to think about the possibility that this season will be the last and that it's time to think about making some money and setting up a career for after you leave F1. That switch of focus when you fear you're yesterday's news might become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[thegamer23]

Gabriele Tarquini won his last WTCR title at 56 .

I think madlads like Alonso will go on well beyond 50, kicking asses in Le Mans & trying to get the Triple Crown with an Indy500 win. 

But, i think he won't go beyond 45-46 in F1.

Sonny Hayes may still hold his record

[Sterzo]

I voted yes.

 

It won't be common, it may not be Alonso, it may not be a full year's drive, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone did. There have been enough in racing and rallying to make it plausible.

[Ruudbackus]

I don't think so, I think f1 with the current calender of 24 races and all the traveling involved is just to much ar some point for the drivers. 

[Ragamuffin]

Paul Newman was 47 when he started racing. 2nd at Le Mans in 1975 (age 50). Age 70, he shared the win in the GTS-1 class (and third overall) at the 1995 Daytona 24 Hours. He took part in the 2005 24 Hours, age 80. Hope for us all!

I did not know that. I'm not surprised though, guy was good at everything - acting, drinking, salad dressing. And such a handsome mother too.

[noriaki]

Paul Newman was 47 when he started racing. 2nd at Le Mans in 1975 (age 50). Age 70, he shared the win in the GTS-1 class (and third overall) at the 1995 Daytona 24 Hours. He took part in the 2005 24 Hours, age 80. Hope for us all!

 

Aged 79, New Zealand's Ken Smith last entered the NZ GP in 2021 - a covid year, but in the three GP's before that he shared the track with the likes of Robert Shwartzman, Liam Lawson and Yuki Tsunoda in Toyota Racing Series cars.

 

Smith is a three time winner of the event, in 2004, 1990 and 1976. He first entered the NZ GP in 1964, in the inaugural year of the Tasman series, in which he shared the track with the likes of Phil Hill, Lex Davison and Jimmy Clark.

 

American Hershel McGriff raced in various NASCAR series for decades, retiring in 2002 but returned to local NASCAR races for one offs many times after that. For the last time he did that in 2018, aged 91.

 

Returns weren't out of character for McGriff - the first time he retired was in 1954, having won several NASCAR Grand National races that season. His most famous achievement is probably winning the inaugural Carrera Panamericana in 1950.

 

Sobieslaw Zasada competed in the 2021 Safari Rally in a WRC3 and was reasonably competitive, outpacing other drivers in the category, but he did not finish due to an accident few kilometres from the finish.

 

The Pole's international rally career had begun 60 years earlier, aged 31 in 1961 at the Acropolis Rally and he was the winner of the 1966 European Rally Championship. When Hitler died in 1945, Zasada was 15.

Edited by noriaki, 01 August 2023 - 09:56.

[Lennat]

It will be interesting to see when Alonso starts to fade noticeably (if he doesn't retire before that). I still already think he had a tenth or two more ten years ago, but that can't be proven of course. 

 

Who has been the oldest competitive IndyCar driver on the non oval tracks in semi recent times (I'm thinking that might be the best indicator we have other than Alonso/Schumi 2.0)? Helio Castroneves is still taking part in the whole season at 48, but he hasn't looked that good in recent times to be honest.

 

I think it would be absolutely incredible if Fernando stayed competitive for 3-4 more years. But, I also don't want to see him do a Valentino Rossi who stayed too long (was past his prime for quite some time, but looked pretty good until his last two or so seasons). He retired at 42, but remained competitive until about 40 as I see it), on freaking motorbikes. However, he was still able to take part at a sort of reasonable level at 42, and could possibly have given it another year or two if he REALLY wanted to. So 50 years of age in F1 cars? Maybe it's just about doable if we are talking about an all time great driver being able to take part at a reduced sort of lower midfield level. Even if F1 is faster and more competitive than IndyCar, I'd take an Alonso at 50 over a Castroneves at 48.

[noriaki]

 

Who has been the oldest competitive IndyCar driver on the non oval tracks in semi recent times (I'm thinking that might be the best indicator we have other than Alonso/Schumi 2.0)? Helio Castroneves is still taking part in the whole season at 48, but he hasn't looked that good in recent times to be honest.

 

 

Depends on what you call competitive and semi recent. On road courses Castroneves (1975) was a solid lower midfield driver last year and has declined into a backmarker this year. Last full season he had before that was 2017 when he was 42, younger than Dixon now.

 

Sato was 44 in 2021, when he scored six top 10 finishes on RC's. But his best finish was only fourth. 

 

Bobby Rahal finished tenth overall in CART 1998, aged 45.

 

Emmo Fittipaldi still had "it" everywhere in 1994 when he was 2nd overall at age 47, but his road course performances declined sharply in 1995, and of course he got injured in 1996.

 

Then there's obviously Mario Andretti who was probably the best road course driver in his mid 40s, competitive for wins in his late 40s, good in his early 50s and okay in his final season in 1994, aged 54.

 

Take your favourite pick! 

Edited by noriaki, 01 August 2023 - 12:03.

[Lennat]

Depends on what you call competitive and semi recent. On road courses Castroneves (1975) was a solid lower midfield driver last year and has declined into a backmarker this year. Last full season he had before that was 2017 when he was 42, younger than Dixon now.

Sato was 44 in 2021, when he scored six top 10 finishes on RC's. But his best finish was only fourth.

Bobby Rahal finished tenth overall in CART 1998, aged 45.

Emmo Fittipaldi still had "it" everywhere in 1994 when he was 2nd overall at age 47, but his road course performances declined sharply in 1995, and of course he got injured in 1996.

Then there's obviously Mario Andretti who was probably the best road course driver in his mid 40s, competitive for wins in his late 40s, good in his early 50s and okay in his final season in 1994, aged 54.

Take your favourite pick!

Thanks for a great reply. It's pretty amazing Mario was still reasonably competitive at 54.

[B Squared]

Thanks for a great reply. It's pretty amazing Mario was still reasonably competitive at 54.

My first visit to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was in 1965, Mario's rookie year, so I kind of feel like I grew up with him. I got to see him race throughout his career. When I work for CART, it was an honor to be working on the same circuits as him and so many of the other legends of the 1980s to the 1990s time frame. I got to see him in Formula 1 more than a few times too.