70 replies to this topic

[YamahaV10]

https://www.si.com/f...rising-move-sj4

News is doing the rounds that retired Formula 1 driver and Red Bull Legend Sebastian Vettel is all set to return to the world of racing. However, reports suggest that Vettel is not going to join Formula 1 but is most likely to join Formula E.

[ARTGP]

If he did that, I would be tempted to watch a Formula E race or 2. Idle curiosities and all...

Edited by ARTGP, 02 August 2023 - 03:55.

[Ben1445]

I’d be surprised if he did, to be perfectly honest. Especially given the team it is rumoured to be with, who look set to be stuck with a mediocre powertrain for another year.

I’d also be concerned about how competitive he could be, given that previous veteran/star names from other series’s haven’t fared all that well.

But if he did do it and brought some new eyes to the talent on display at the head of the field maybe that would be a good thing overall.

[Beri]

I’d be surprised if he did, to be perfectly honest. Especially given the team it is rumoured to be with, who look set to be stuck with a mediocre powertrain for another year.

I’d also be concerned about how competitive he could be, given that previous veteran/star names from other series’s haven’t fared all that well.

But if he did do it and brought some new eyes to the talent on display at the head of the field maybe that would be a good thing overall.

 

For the series itself and for the world of electric propulsion as well.

[RedRabbit]

Vettel in Formula E would really boost its audience.

[Ben1445]

Thing is, Felipe Massa leaving F1 for FE brought similar expectations of boosting the audience, only for his results to be lacklustre and him quitting before his contract was out. Not sure it did much other than reinforce the idea for some people that FE is where aging F1 has-beens go for something to do in their retirement.

If Vettel did join ABT next year, I think getting decent results would be tricky. Even one of FE’s most experienced drivers in Lucas Di Grassi is struggling with that Mahindra powertrain, and Vettel would be coming in with very limited knowledge of how to drive these cars. If indeed there is any truth to these rumours.

If he was being lined up for a Porsche or Jaguar FE drive, that might be a slightly different story…

Edited by Ben1445, 02 August 2023 - 08:41.

[Beri]

Ben.. you are surely not comparing Felipe Massa, a driver who hardly had any fans outside of Brazil, to 4 time World Champion and fan favourite Sebastian Vettel, now are you?

[Ben1445]

I suppose I think what is mildly frustrating for me as an FE fan is that we get these declarations of ‘well that would boost interest’ or ‘I’d watch it if that happened’ …

…meanwhile this season just passed has essentially been about how two incredibly storied motorsport marques in Jaguar and Porsche have been slogging it out across both factory and customer teams, and the 20-something year old drivers of Evans, Dennis and Cassidy have been raising the bar for driver performance and begun carving out careers as leading, professional FE drivers in their own right.

That’s motorsport gold, and almost precisely what the vision was when FE started around a decade ago. If people need Vettel moving to an FE team with limited near-term prospects to give watching it a shot that’s… kind of disappointing tbh.

But again… if he did join and it led people to realise what they’re missing then that would be good news.

Edited by Ben1445, 02 August 2023 - 09:04.

[P123]

If I read a headline stating 'Vettel to FE', I'd half expect it to be in a team management role.

[Muppetmad]

Spatial awareness wasn't exactly Vettel's strength in F1, either, and FE punishes those who don't have it.

[Zoe]

I wonder whether those claims about driver x not having spatial awareness are based on facts or on (more or less) wishful thinking.

[Taxi]

What I really dislike about FE is that the circuits are all ugly, basicaly. Let them race in normal circuits. "Oh but that would expose the lack of speed of the cars, etc". Don't care. Racing in parking lots or racing in Brands Hatch/ Red Bull Ring/Mugello is incomparable. FE has a lot of potential with all the buzz around eletric cars  and all. Racing in the middle of concrete builings is not the best way to promote the ecological part of the series. 

 

Vettel coming would be interesting not only because he is the champion he is but specialy because it makes sense. Vettel has been very vocal about protecting the evironment, so it's logical (and I would say almost mandatory) that he gets envolved in the only series that represents the alternative ways of motion in the future. Another great boost would be bringing Tesla, but they seem to "race" against the flow in everything. 

[Sterzo]

Typically, when a driver retires from F1 it's because he has lost some of his attack and commitment - not because he's lost raw talent. Typically, in the series ranked "below" F1, the average talent is lower but the attack required to win is just as much. This can lead to aged F1 drivers cutting a rather sad figure in the middle of the pack, and doing no better in the new series than in the Grand Prix field.

[Beri]

I doubt Vettel lacked the attack or commitment during his final seasons. The relentless schedule of F1 didnt help keeping him onboard and I think he just was fed up and left the scene all together. He is a family man who places his family first, after all.

[Widefoot2]

What I really dislike about FE is that the circuits are all ugly, basicaly. Let them race in normal circuits. "Oh but that would expose the lack of speed of the cars, etc". Don't care. Racing in parking lots or racing in Brands Hatch/ Red Bull Ring/Mugello is incomparable. FE has a lot of potential with all the buzz around eletric cars  and all. Racing in the middle of concrete builings is not the best way to promote the ecological part of the series. 

 

Vettel coming would be interesting not only because he is the champion he is but specialy because it makes sense. Vettel has been very vocal about protecting the evironment, so it's logical (and I would say almost mandatory) that he gets envolved in the only series that represents the alternative ways of motion in the future. Another great boost would be bringing Tesla, but they seem to "race" against the flow in everything. 

This is a part of my distaste for FE, the second being the lack of "drama" of the vehicles themselves. Without the aural violence that comes from IC engines and the like, it's like watching refrigerators racing about. While I can fully appreciate the technology involved and hope it improves road cars, I just can't get into it.

[JHSingo]

I'm not sure even Vettel can raise my pulse levels when it comes to Formula E, tbh. Just a series I fail to get excited about, not helped by the weird looking cars and crash-tastic street circuits. 

 

I'd much rather see him at Le Mans. 

[Collombin]

This is a part of my distaste for FE, the second being the lack of "drama" of the vehicles themselves. Without the aural violence that comes from IC engines and the like, it's like watching refrigerators racing about. While I can fully appreciate the technology involved and hope it improves road cars, I just can't get into it.

Agree completely, but I couldn't express it well enough without sounding like a really old man. Which I am not.

[Taxi]

Maybe if  FE could let constructors develop their own cars would also be good. Give them freedom to bring new solutions. That would get us diferent cars, more drama and maybe some stupid dominations sometimes.  Like F1. 

[Widefoot2]

Agree completely, but I couldn't express it well enough without sounding like a really old man. Which I am not.

I am, so I've got the sad duty of confirming you are too...  

[thegamer23]

Maybe if  FE could let constructors develop their own cars would also be good. Give them freedom to bring new solutions. That would get us diferent cars, more drama and maybe some stupid dominations sometimes.  Like F1. 

 

 

 

Formula E is working because it's very different from every other motorsport serie, and that's its strenght.


 

Edited by thegamer23, 02 August 2023 - 10:57.

[Ali623]

I suppose I think what is mildly frustrating for me as an FE fan is that we get these declarations of ‘well that would boost interest’ or ‘I’d watch it if that happened’ …

…meanwhile this season just passed has essentially been about how two incredibly storied motorsport marques in Jaguar and Porsche have been slogging it out across both factory and customer teams, and the 20-something year old drivers of Evans, Dennis and Cassidy have been raising the bar for driver performance and begun carving out careers as leading, professional FE drivers in their own right.

That’s motorsport gold, and almost precisely what the vision was when FE started around a decade ago. If people need Vettel moving to an FE team with limited near-term prospects to give watching it a shot that’s… kind of disappointing tbh.

But again… if he did join and it led people to realise what they’re missing then that would be good news.

 

Probably because Formula E is still a very niche motorsport series and the reality is people that currently don't watch/are invested in FE aren't interested in drivers like Evans, Dennis or Cassidy. Vettel joining would create big headlines and would draw plenty more viewers, at least temporarily. He's still one of the most recognisable drivers out there.

[Taxi]

Yeah I get your point but if you compare the numbers they are way behind F1 and other series like Moto GP/nascar/WRC. 

[thegamer23]

Yeah I get your point but if you compare the numbers they are way behind F1 and other series like Moto GP/nascar/WRC. 

 

Obviously they are, cause those other series have decades of lifespan and building fanbase, while FE first season was less than 10 years ago.

Yet, they still attract at least 30-40k spectators on most tracks, wich is more than most other european series can do, outside of F1 & MotoGP.

Wich is quite impressive if you ask me.

A Vettel joining the serie could only help with the general numbers & interest, given his huge popularity & fanbase, but also could be crucially important for the Sustainability communication of the serie.

 

Edited by thegamer23, 02 August 2023 - 11:45.

[Muppetmad]

I wonder whether those claims about driver x not having spatial awareness are based on facts or on (more or less) wishful thinking.

I'm unsure what you mean by wishful thinking: I have no beef with Vettel, and certainly not since his retirement. I'm simply reflecting on my observations of Vettel's career: he had many strengths, but wheel-to-wheel combat and broader situational awareness wasn't among them in my judgement. While the series would be a good fit for him in terms of his passion for sustainability, I'm not convinced it would be best suited to him as a driver. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

[Ben1445]

Probably because Formula E is still a very niche motorsport series and the reality is people that currently don't watch/are invested in FE aren't interested in drivers like Evans, Dennis or Cassidy. Vettel joining would create big headlines and would draw plenty more viewers, at least temporarily. He's still one of the most recognisable drivers out there.

I mean, firstly, I do not think that drivers moving between series is a bad thing - in fact I frequently encourage it in the hope that it strengthens the overall motorsport fanbase and community. Secondly, I’m not doubting the relative recognisability and popularity of Vettel compared to FE’s leading drivers.

On the other hand, Porsche, Jaguar and McLaren aren’t exactly minnow names in motorsport and they all have FE teams, so it’s not like there’s a total absence of recognisable names to latch onto.

I guess my feeling here is that Vettel in FE might not go too differently to Jimmie Johnson doing IndyCar. Very well known name, can generate some new interest but ultimately not getting particularly impressive results. I suppose the question is how much that has helped IndyCar; Did it have a limited impact, was it a helpful boost or was it total game changer for the series?

My feeling is that Vettel to FE would be (at best) a helpful boost which ultimately wouldn’t eclipse the other strengths of the championship.

Edited by Ben1445, 02 August 2023 - 12:08.

[Ben1445]

Of course this also all could just be Thomas Biermaier at Team ABT knowing how to work the rumour mill for some easy publicity

[engineblock1]

Spatial awareness wasn't exactly Vettel's strength in F1, either, and FE punishes those who don't have it.

 

Reminds me of a comment (suspected to be true) from Mark Webber about it 

[Taxi]

Obviously they are, cause those other series have decades of lifespan and building fanbase, while FE first season was less than 10 years ago.

Yet, they still attract at least 30-40k spectators on most tracks, wich is more than most other european series can do, outside of F1 & MotoGP.

Wich is quite impressive if you ask me.

A Vettel joining the serie could only help with the general numbers & interest, given his huge popularity & fanbase, but also could be crucially important for the Sustainability communication of the serie.

 

 

It doesn't mean it cannot be better. Put them in normal circuits ate least. The small ones, like Red Bull Ring, Interlagos, short Barhein, Brands, Zandvoort...

Edited by Taxi, 02 August 2023 - 12:37.

[MattK9]

I class this as very unlikely to happen as ABT are at the back of field. 

If it does happen, it could add creditability to the series because the F1 world champion would likely run around at the rear of the field. I would also put money on him being beaten by teammate Nico Mueller over a season.

 

Why isnt this in the FE silly season thread?

[Otaku]

He should go to Indycar

[F1matt]

I thought FE had moved on from employing washed up F1 drivers who got there arse handed to them when they had decent drivers as team mates? Or having team mates who were only there for the money who were always willing to move over for them. 

[TMC44]

I was at the London track last Friday, thanks to a mate who let me tag along while he made a delivery. Parts of the lay out were hideous. Why they cannot race on the Brands Indy track is beyond me. I know its not London but the current track is hardly in the throbbing centre of London, more like the dogs backside. Also all the work to set it up for just two races, at least you could have support races and give people value for money. I know someone will say the support races would have to be ICE cars but its better than just one race a day.  TCR series uses hybrid so maybe have them.

[Ben1445]

The absence of suitable EV support series is, for me, largely a question that should be put towards entities like the FIA, national motorsport bodies and manufacturers, in my view.

[PayasYouRace]

It doesn't mean it cannot be better. Put them in normal circuits ate least. The small ones, like Red Bull Ring, Interlagos, short Barhein, Brands, Zandvoort...

Have you watched the Portland race? I meant to but life got in the way.

[AlexPrime]

What I really dislike about FE is that the circuits are all ugly, basicaly. 

I strongly disagree, I love street course racing and this is the main reason I watch FE. Nothing compares to racing cars in a street course IMO.
As for Seb, I think he will struggle in a Cupra. I didn't enjoy watching him get beaten in F1, it would probably be even less thrilling in FE.

[thegamer23]

I class this as very unlikely to happen as ABT are at the back of field. 

If it does happen, it could add creditability to the series because the F1 world champion would likely run around at the rear of the field. I would also put money on him being beaten by teammate Nico Mueller over a season.

 

Why isnt this in the FE silly season thread?

 

There is!

 

https://forums.autos...e-silly-season/

[thegamer23]

Have you watched the Portland race? I meant to but life got in the way.

 

 

It was a pretty good one

 

Edited by thegamer23, 02 August 2023 - 14:08.

[MattK9]

There is!

 

https://forums.autos...e-silly-season/

 

I mean this entire thread should be merged with the existing silly season thread

[PayasYouRace]

Big talking points can exist in separate threads.

[Afterburner]

Where's the intrigue? He was one of F1's least popular winners throughout his career and when he failed at Ferrari it seemed everyone just sort of nodded and went, "Yep, knew it." There's no narrative about rediscovering some lost potential here or providing a benchmark for anyone else in the series, or the series itself, since he sort of faded out in F1 anyway. Short of him coming in and winning everything to indicate he still "has it" somehow I'm not sure it moves the interest needle—and even then, he seemed to struggle with torquey cars, so racing EVs seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

If it were someone like Hamilton joining, then maybe we'd have something here.

[Clatter]

Maybe if  FE could let constructors develop their own cars would also be good. Give them freedom to bring new solutions. That would get us diferent cars, more drama and maybe some stupid dominations sometimes.  Like F1. 

 

That would just price teams out of the sport, and send the series to an early grave.

[noikeee]

I suppose I think what is mildly frustrating for me as an FE fan is that we get these declarations of ‘well that would boost interest’ or ‘I’d watch it if that happened’ …

…meanwhile this season just passed has essentially been about how two incredibly storied motorsport marques in Jaguar and Porsche have been slogging it out across both factory and customer teams, and the 20-something year old drivers of Evans, Dennis and Cassidy have been raising the bar for driver performance and begun carving out careers as leading, professional FE drivers in their own right.

That’s motorsport gold, and almost precisely what the vision was when FE started around a decade ago

 

shrug.gif

[Zoe]

It was a pretty good one

 

Guess I'd need to read up the rules and regulations before I'd start following it. The cars look funny with those F22-style rudders though 

[Zoe]

Where's the intrigue? He was one of F1's least popular winners throughout his career and when he failed at Ferrari it seemed everyone just sort of nodded and went, "Yep, knew it." There's no narrative about rediscovering some lost potential here or providing a benchmark for anyone else in the series, or the series itself, since he sort of faded out in F1 anyway. Short of him coming in and winning everything to indicate he still "has it" somehow I'm not sure it moves the interest needle—and even then, he seemed to struggle with torquey cars, so racing EVs seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

If it were someone like Hamilton joining, then maybe we'd have something here.

 

It's your position but not a universal view.

[F1matt]

Where's the intrigue? He was one of F1's least popular winners throughout his career and when he failed at Ferrari it seemed everyone just sort of nodded and went, "Yep, knew it." There's no narrative about rediscovering some lost potential here or providing a benchmark for anyone else in the series, or the series itself, since he sort of faded out in F1 anyway. Short of him coming in and winning everything to indicate he still "has it" somehow I'm not sure it moves the interest needle—and even then, he seemed to struggle with torquey cars, so racing EVs seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

If it were someone like Hamilton joining, then maybe we'd have something here.

 

 

Hamilton to FE would be big news which would generate lots of positive news for FE but it wouldn't be sustainable. FE isn't trying to be like F1, it has gone down its own road and holds its own as a series, no mean achievement if you look at how many series have fell by the wayside. Organic growth seems to be the right path for the series. 

[ForzaFormula]

Would be shocking if true. 

[noikeee]

He's not even the first former F1 champ to go there, Jacques Villeneuve has started FE races.

 

Look, ok, back then Villeneuve had long gone from F1, whereas Vettel has only stopped recently, but I really don't think it's this huge thing.

[Myrvold]

Thing is, Felipe Massa leaving F1 for FE brought similar expectations of boosting the audience, only for his results to be lacklustre and him quitting before his contract was out. Not sure it did much other than reinforce the idea for some people that FE is where aging F1 has-beens go for something to do in their retirement.…

 

I thought FE had moved on from employing washed up F1 drivers who got there arse handed to them when they had decent drivers as team mates? Or having team mates who were only there for the money who were always willing to move over for them.

Like I said in the FE silly season thread, I don't see it happening, but Vettel does have quite a sizable following, due to his F1 knowledge and attitude together with Leclerc when DtS happened, and then Covid. The fact that he was in general quicker than Stroll helped him to avoid the usual "he is so old and bad" comments as well. His 2020 was an outlier.
I also think there is a difference between Massa, Buemi, di Grassi etc. as ex-F1 racers to join FE compared to the driver with third most F1 race-wins, most consecutive wins in F1 history (until Zandvoort 2023...) and 4th most titles in F1 history. It's quite a difference.
 

It doesn't mean it cannot be better. Put them in normal circuits ate least. The small ones, like Red Bull Ring, Interlagos, short Barhein, Brands, Zandvoort...

What I really dislike about FE is that the circuits are all ugly, basicaly. Let them race in normal circuits.

Portland has already been mentioned, they use a shorter version of Hermanos Rodriguez as well. Ironically they use the whole Peraltada. With that being said, while some of the street circuits could be better, the point is that FE isn't like the other classes, so why should they use the same style of tracks. I quite like the London-one, the indoor part is unique!

[highdownforce]

I would like to see Vettel in Lemans.
In a Valkyrie would be a plus.

[juicy sushi]

What I really dislike about FE is that the circuits are all ugly, basicaly. Let them race in normal circuits. "Oh but that would expose the lack of speed of the cars, etc". Don't care. Racing in parking lots or racing in Brands Hatch/ Red Bull Ring/Mugello is incomparable. FE has a lot of potential with all the buzz around eletric cars  and all. Racing in the middle of concrete builings is not the best way to promote the ecological part of the series. 

 

Vettel coming would be interesting not only because he is the champion he is but specialy because it makes sense. Vettel has been very vocal about protecting the evironment, so it's logical (and I would say almost mandatory) that he gets envolved in the only series that represents the alternative ways of motion in the future. Another great boost would be bringing Tesla, but they seem to "race" against the flow in everything. 

I mean, Monaco and Mexico are just as ugly with an F1 car driving around them, Cape Town looked better than any of the recent street circuits F1 has, and Portland is a real race track that's going to host an Indycar race in the next month.  The idea was to take the racing to the middle of cities where the people lived, instead of at a remote location out in the countryside.  I don't see a lot to gain by racing in the middle of nowhere.