639 replies to this topic

[H0R]

I stick to my prediction. ;-)

[KWSN - DSM]

I think I am in the lead currently, so will stick as well.

[pdac]

My prediction is, whatever it turns out to be, it will be too little.

[FLB]

Err, this is en francais, so I'll wait for an article in English, but a) It makes the firing of Malukas *much* more than it appeared at first and b) Palou's Ganassi contract includes an option for F1...

 

Essentially, there is aaprently a legal document in which the Palou clan claims that McLaren's deal with GM required the team to replace him with an 'A-level' driver (whcih they say Malukas isn't, but Pourchaire might be because he has an F1 Superlicence) and that because of that, McLaren is in breach with GM and that where the losses to McLaren come from... 

Edited by FLB, 16 June 2024 - 11:32.

[New Britain]

Err, this is en francais, so I'll wait for an article in English, but a) It makes the firing of Malukas *much* more than it appeared at first and b) Palou's Ganassi contract includes an option for F1...

 

Essentially, there is aaprently a legal document in which the Palou clan claims that McLaren's deal with GM required the team to replace him with an 'A-level' driver (whcih they say Malukas isn't, but Pourchaire might be because he has an F1 Superlicence) and that because of that, McLaren is in breach with GM and that where the losses to McLaren come from... 

 

Sorry, but could you please rephrase? What deal supposedly obliged McLaren to hire an 'A-level' driver?

[FLB]

Sorry, but could you please rephrase? What deal supposedly obliged McLaren to hire an 'A-level' driver?

The IndyCar engine deal. McLaren runs Chevorlet engines in IndyCar and the Palou clan is arguing that the team is either also getting money or a better deal with Palou or a driver of a similar pedigree ('A-level') than with Malukas.

 

So therefore Palou can't be blamed for whatever losses McLaren has suffered by him sticking with Ganassi.

Edited by FLB, 16 June 2024 - 12:09.

[Anja]

Err, this is en francais, so I'll wait for an article in English, but a) It makes the firing of Malukas *much* more than it appeared at first and b) Palou's Ganassi contract includes an option for F1...

 

Essentially, there is aaprently a legal document in which the Palou clan claims that McLaren's deal with GM required the team to replace him with an 'A-level' driver (whcih they say Malukas isn't, but Pourchaire might be because he has an F1 Superlicence) and that because of that, McLaren is in breach with GM and that where the losses to McLaren come from... 

 

I think this is the article you're looking for: https://www.the-race...kas-pourchaire/

[FLB]

I think this is the article you're looking for: https://www.the-race...kas-pourchaire/

Thank you! 

[New Britain]

The IndyCar engine deal. McLaren runs Chevorlet engines in IndyCar and the Palou clan is arguing that the team is either also getting money or a better deal with Palou or a driver of a similar pedigree ('A-level') than with Malukas.

 

So therefore Palou can't be blamed for whatever losses McLaren has suffered by him sticking with Ganassi.

Ah, okay. Palou's argument of course presumes that McLaren would have had control over 'A-level' drivers and therefore it would have been McLaren's choice as to whether to get one on board. Typical lawyers' grasping at straws.

[Risil]

Haha, I wonder how a court would interpret the phrase "A level driver".

[FLB]

Haha, I wonder how a court would interpret the phrase "A level driver".

F1 Superlicence holder, for instance. Platinum FIA rating.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[GlenWatkins]

Haha, I wonder how a court would interpret the phrase "A level driver".

Agreed.  Pourchaire didn't even sit in and IndyCar until a few races ago.  Even with a super license, not anywhere near the stature of Palou, a 2 time & reigning IndyCar champion.

[PayasYouRace]

Haha, I wonder how a court would interpret the phrase "A level driver".

I’ve got three A-Levels and a driving licence…

[Frood]

I’ve got three A-Levels and a driving licence…

 

As do I (plus an AS-level in Philosophy). Where are our McLaren contracts to break?

[loki]

I don’t know there is a level driver available but there is one that’s askew…

[red stick]

McLaren's flexible view of labor/management obligations, part the infinity . . .

https://racer.com/20...multiyear-deal/

 

https://racer.com/20...w-mclaren-exit/

Edited by red stick, 18 June 2024 - 20:43.

[FLB]

McLaren's flexible view of labor/management obligations, part the infinity . . .

https://racer.com/20...multiyear-deal/

This isn't funny anymore, Zak.

[juicy sushi]

I look forward to the statements that this is "harsh but fair" from McLaren because drivers aren't owed any job security, but somehow race teams are supposed to enjoy contact security instead.

[red stick]

 

 

For Pourchaire, who cleared his calendar to make himself available to Arrow McLaren for the rest of the season, the loss of an IndyCar seat comes with no immediate answers on how or when he’ll continue in the series, but his output to date has not gone unnoticed.

 

https://racer.com/20...w-mclaren-exit/

[jcbc3]

Before crucifying Zak, it's best to know if contracts were broken or not. I have a pretty good idea that Zak wouldn't do that. Which doesn't make his actions ethical, just or fair. 

[loki]

Before crucifying Zak, it's best to know if contracts were broken or not. I have a pretty good idea that Zak wouldn't do that. Which doesn't make his actions ethical, just or fair. 

If one was contracted to drive the rest of the season and doesn’t it’s a broken contract.  Compensation for that is another matter.

[jcbc3]

If one was contracted to drive the rest of the season and doesn’t it’s a broken contract.  Compensation for that is another matter.

 

But we don't know what the contract said. I'm not condoning Zak's actions. I'm just saying that it may not be a breakage of contract. And if it is, I'm sure Theo's agent/lawyers will be all over it.

[red stick]

May 9 story suggests Pourchaire was signed through the season, but you're correct, no one here has seen the document.

https://racer.com/20...f-the-indy-500/

Edited by red stick, 18 June 2024 - 21:13.

[juicy sushi]

But we don't know what the contract said. I'm not condoning Zak's actions. I'm just saying that it may not be a breakage of contract. And if it is, I'm sure Theo's agent/lawyers will be all over it.

It’s probably not a breach, but the seat time in the McLaren as a place to show his talent was worth more than the money, and now that opportunity is gone. Not illegal, but good evidence that drivers aren’t treated in good faith

[maximilian]

Theo hasn't really super-impressed, but did show some good stuff that should have probably kept this seat safe, especially after clearing his schedule.  Not sure what the hype about Siegel is, doubt he'll do any better than Theo.  And multi-year contract?  WHY?

[GlenWatkins]

Not a good decision for Brown, the optics on this are terrible. Much worse than cutting Askew adrift. Pourchaire exceeded everyones expectations, hope he lands elsewhere in IndyCar.

Seigel had better be the IndyCar version of Norris or this is an epic fail.

Edited by GlenWatkins, 18 June 2024 - 21:50.

[juicy sushi]

The best summary of this court case now is that Alex treated Zak like Zak was one of his own drivers.

[New Britain]

But we don't know what the contract said. I'm not condoning Zak's actions. I'm just saying that it may not be a breakage of contract. And if it is, I'm sure Theo's agent/lawyers will be all over it.

Indeed. Lewis Hamilton had a contract with Mercedes that lasted to the end of 2025. However....

[KWSN - DSM]

They have had Porchaire up and close, the shine have clearly gone off him since his 1st season in F2.

[propercare]

Theo hasn't really super-impressed, but did show some good stuff that should have probably kept this seat safe, especially after clearing his schedule. Not sure what the hype about Siegel is, doubt he'll do any better than Theo. And multi-year contract? WHY?

Money. Siegel brings a lot of money.

[juicy sushi]

Seems like mediation for this case may be on the horizon, although I cannot see Zak dropping his vendetta that easily:  https://racer.com/20...ards-mediation/

[pdac]

Seems like mediation for this case may be on the horizon, although I cannot see Zak dropping his vendetta that easily:  https://racer.com/20...ards-mediation/

 

There doesn't seem to be anything in that article that offers any suggestion that mediation is taking place other than Palou's side saying they want to put it behind them. It takes two sides to mediate and they have no comment from McLaren.

[red stick]

Well, and the court suggested it. No small hint, that.

[GreenMachine]

In that situation, better to have tried meditation and failed than not.

[jcbc3]

Usually, it's the best strategy to do as the court 'suggest'. The side being obstinate in that may lose a couple of mill.

 

So, let's see what figure they end up with.

[jcbc3]

Just a reminder that you can still join the sweep stake. Send your pick to me.

Updated sweep stakes:
 

[FLB]

Update from Nathan Brown: Nathan Brown sur X : "The latest from court docs in the @AlexPalou v. @McLarenF1 lawsuit: -Mediation can begin as soon as Oct. 28 -Trial can’t begin earlier than Oct. 2025 -The same day Palou told @ArrowMcLaren he wasn’t coming, @ZBrownCEO offered @Ericsson_Marcus the ride https://t.co/GPF6n1Xp57" / X

[Seppi_0_917PA]

From AP News today:

 

"...Brown has always been most bothered that Palou never had the guts to call him and tell him directly he was staying at Ganassi. And that’s partly why the price tag in McLaren’s legal filings continues to increase in what the team hopes to recoup in not having Palou in its IndyCar lineup.

 

Then back in April, at the Long Beach Grand Prix, the hotel elevator doors opened and Palou found himself staring directly at Brown. The 10-floor ride to the lobby was the only time they’ve spoken in this messy breakup, with Palou admitting last weekend that...

Spoiler

...he basically gave Brown the freedom in the elevator to voice his displeasure."

[GreenMachine]

Maybe if Zak can vent directly, it will take some of the heat out, and perhaps the likelihood of a successful mediation has just gone up.

 

So, I think my prediction is now <$5m, say $3-5m, plus costs.  Don't let me down now Zak. 

[jcbc3]