16 replies to this topic

[Erwin1973]

Good day to all.

 

Not too long ago I found out that in France (just like in Italy) there was a national championship for Grand Prix cars (Formula Libre?) in 1928. The only reference I could find to it was on the Wikipedia site of Jannine Jennky, though.

 

Wikipedia states: "Jannine Jennky was a French racing driver.

She initially entered hillclimbs, winning in Gaillion near Rouen in 1927, and in Paris in 1928.

She made a successful debut in motor racing, finishing third in the 1927 Grand Prix de la Baule

Her only major win was in the 1928 Coupe de Bourgogne, in Dijon, a race which counted towards the French Championship that year. She beat Louis Chiron, who crashed out of the race after 22 of the 28 laps. Jennky also set the fastest lap of the race."

 

I know that the Italian National Championship started off in 1927, with Emilio Materassi als national champion at the end of the season. I know how many points were awarded, too. But for the French National Championship I have no in formation whatsoever: nor when it started, what races counted, what points were awarded...

 

Leif has sent me a link to the "L'Auto" on, all newspapers, but I cannot find anything that supports that statement made in Wikipedia, not even in the edition of the Coupe de Bourgogne of 1928 (May 16th 1928).

 

So here's the question: is there anyone who knows anything about the French National Championship, when it started, what races per year counted towards it, what points were awarded? I'd love to hear.

 

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Erwin.

[Vitesse2]

Gallica also has the Bulletin Officiel de l'ACF and the Revue Officielle de l'Automobile-Club féminin de Paris for 1928. Maybe something in one of those?

 

https://gallica.bnf...."#resultat-id-1

[ensign14]

The 2 November 1938 Daily Times of Davenport, Iowa, describes her as a national motorcycling champion. 

[Erwin1973]

The 2 November 1938 Daily Times of Davenport, Iowa, describes her as a national motorcycling champion. 

 

My question not so much about Jennky but about the national championship...

[Erwin1973]

Gallica also has the Bulletin Officiel de l'ACF and the Revue Officielle de l'Automobile-Club féminin de Paris for 1928. Maybe something in one of those?

 

https://gallica.bnf...."#resultat-id-1

 

Sadly I can't find anything. Could be my lack of knowledge about the French language...

[Sterzo]

The Wikipedia stub article on Jennky links to sources which do not confirm the existence of a 1928 French racing championship. The nearest thing is a use of the word "championship" in the linked Speedqueens article, but that appears (it's ambiguous) to refer to a series of events constituting the Journée Féminine de l'Automobile, a one day event at Monthery.

 

https://speedqueens....ine-jennky.html

Edited by Sterzo, 20 August 2023 - 21:30.

[Vitesse2]

The Wikipedia stub article on Jennky links to sources which do not confirm the existence of a 1928 French racing championship. The nearest thing is a use of the word "championship" in the linked Speedqueens article, but that appears (it's ambiguous) to refer to a series of events constituting the Journée Féminine de l'Automobile, a one day event at Monthery.

 

https://speedqueens....ine-jennky.html

I was thinking much along the same lines. There was a multi-class French Motorcycle Championship in 1928, although as far as the late Vincent Glon could ascertain the titles were awarded for the result of one race only, again at Montlhéry.

 

If there had been an official championship for drivers it would necessarily have been under the aegis of the ACF and I'm 100% certain it would not have escaped the attention of our much-missed friend Jean-Maurice Gigleux. Or that of Robert Dick, who is thankfully still with us.

 

And there is no trace of a mention of any championship in the French Wikipedia article about Jennky, even though it gives a bit more detail than the English one. https://fr.wikipedia...i/Janine_Jennky

[Erwin1973]

Thanks guys,

I hope to find out more about the French national Grand Prix championship since I know at some point it did take place, just don't know when, what and how. I'll keep looking but I'll skip 1928 for now from my mind. :-)

[robert dick]

Maybe a misinterpretation of French language.

 

For example in an article published in L'Auto on 6 April 1928 concerning Jennky's entry in the meeting de Bourgogne:

"... Hier nous avons eu le plaisir d'enregistrer celui de la championne française Mme Janine Jennky,..."

 

Championne française does not mean championne de France.

 

[robert dick]

A "championnat des conducteurs français" was organised by the commission sportive of the Automobile Club de France for the first time in 1937:

 

https://gallica.bnf....pt6k53219139/f7

 

Raymond Sommer won the championnat in 1937 and 1939, and René Dreyfus in 1938.

 

[Erwin1973]

 

A "championnat des conducteurs français" was organised by the commission sportive of the Automobile Club de France for the first time in 1937:

 

https://gallica.bnf....pt6k53219139/f7

 

Raymond Sommer won the championnat in 1937 and 1939, and René Dreyfus in 1938.

 

 

That looks interesting, thank you! Can I therefor conclude that the French National Grand Prix Championship or however it was called, started in 1937? Or am I drawing a premature conclusion?

[Vitesse2]

That looks interesting, thank you! Can I therefor conclude that the French National Grand Prix Championship or however it was called, started in 1937? Or am I drawing a premature conclusion?

I was assuming you already knew about the 1937-39 championships! Rémi Paolozzi did an analysis of them at 8W: http://8w.forix.com/fc1937.html

 

In 1946 the ACF did not initially announce a championship, but in retrospect they named the winner of the Coupe de l'Équipe, compiled by the newspaper and based on French events only, as their official championship. So Raymond Sommer was also Champion of France in 1946 - as well as winning another 'unofficial championship', based on a more international selection of events - similar to those which counted for the 1937 French championship - and compiled by the Swiss magazine Automobil Revue.

[Lemnpiper]

Also keep in mind  in the USA  the AMA  motorcycle championship prior to 1954  was decided with just 1 race at Springfield from circa 1946 to 1953.

  With races run the rest of the year not counted toward the championship, sounds like the 1928 French setup to a degree.

[Erwin1973]

I was assuming you already knew about the 1937-39 championships! Rémi Paolozzi did an analysis of them at 8W: http://8w.forix.com/fc1937.html

 

In 1946 the ACF did not initially announce a championship, but in retrospect they named the winner of the Coupe de l'Équipe, compiled by the newspaper and based on French events only, as their official championship. So Raymond Sommer was also Champion of France in 1946 - as well as winning another 'unofficial championship', based on a more international selection of events - similar to those which counted for the 1937 French championship - and compiled by the Swiss magazine Automobil Revue.

 

Sadly, I did not know that. As far as I know, the French National Championship was held, but I only know about the 1947 season. Thanks by the way for the link to 8W, I'll love to read it. Thank you for the info. 

 

Also keep in mind  in the USA  the AMA  motorcycle championship prior to 1954  was decided with just 1 race at Springfield from circa 1946 to 1953.

  With races run the rest of the year not counted toward the championship, sounds like the 1928 French setup to a degree.

 

That is a possibility, but then... the championship should or would be held also in 1929-1936... Am I right in that assumption? And what race(s) did count then?

[Michael Ferner]

Also keep in mind  in the USA  the AMA  motorcycle championship prior to 1954  was decided with just 1 race at Springfield from circa 1946 to 1953.

  With races run the rest of the year not counted toward the championship, sounds like the 1928 French setup to a degree.

 

Not quite. What you're describing is the Grand National Champion 'nameplate', which is still competed for today in a number of races with a point system. Back then, it was different: AMA awarded (virtually) countless National Championships each year, a tradition going back to the days of M&ATA sanctioning, possibly even FAM (I never really figured out who started it) - each year, there would be National Champions for several different distances, different disciplines and, at least before WW2, different classes. This gave lots of promoters the opportunity to advertize races with National Champions, e.g. the 5-mile Class A National Champion over a Halfmile track racing against the 3-mile Class C National Champion over a Mile track, etc. This was good for promoters, but difficult to follow for Joe Public, so they started calling the 25-mile Class C National Champion over a Mile track the Grand National Champion, and assigned the #1 number plate. This proved popular with the crowds, but not quite satisfactory for the competitors who began craving that #1 number plate, so for 1954 it was decided to count the results of all Class C National Championships through a points scheme, and award the Grand National title along with the #1 plate to the rider with the highest points score - basically, a championship of championships. Meaning that, for example, Joe Leonard was a 27-time National Champion in four different disciplines, and a three-time Grand National Champion. Over time, the meaning of the distance National Championships got lost, and from 1969 onwards half-mile Grand National Championship races were run to a standard distance, for example. Thus, the Grand National Championship became a run-of-the-mill points championship, like all others.

 

For a good overview, read https://www.dairylan...atimeline/#1971, but don't expect to understand it all afterwards!

[Vitesse2]

That looks interesting, thank you! Can I therefor conclude that the French National Grand Prix Championship or however it was called, started in 1937? Or am I drawing a premature conclusion?

Apart from the BRDC Gold Star awards - then awarded in two categories, for road races and track (ie Brooklands) events and first instituted in 1929 - the introduction of 'national championships' was essentially a mid- to late 1930s innovation. The BRDC also made special Gold Star awards for individual achievements like Land Speed Records. The Swiss, Italians and Germans - who awarded them for both races (Strassenmeisterschaft) and hillclimbs (Bergmeisterschaft), but only counting specific German events - were first, so it looks like the French may have felt they were falling behind the trend. As Robert says, the 1937 championship was their first. Less well-known is a points-based system instituted by the British Motor Racing Organisers' Association, which ran in 1938 and 1939 - although they apparently had no pretensions to it being a 'national championship' as such, since presumably only the RAC, as the UK national racing authority, could confer that honour.

[Erwin1973]

Apart from the BRDC Gold Star awards - then awarded in two categories, for road races and track (ie Brooklands) events and first instituted in 1929 - the introduction of 'national championships' was essentially a mid- to late 1930s innovation. The BRDC also made special Gold Star awards for individual achievements like Land Speed Records. The Swiss, Italians and Germans - who awarded them for both races (Strassenmeisterschaft) and hillclimbs (Bergmeisterschaft), but only counting specific German events - were first, so it looks like the French may have felt they were falling behind the trend. As Robert says, the 1937 championship was their first. Less well-known is a points-based system instituted by the British Motor Racing Organisers' Association, which ran in 1938 and 1939 - although they apparently had no pretensions to it being a 'national championship' as such, since presumably only the RAC, as the UK national racing authority, could confer that honour.

Now that's interesting. Thanks.  

Edited by Erwin1973, 03 September 2023 - 19:59.