61 replies to this topic

[TerryS]

For interest

 

Things That Never Happened – The Race Torque

[flatlandsman]

Some cool stuff on there, that Nishy car looks unreal!

 

I made up a story once for MN many moons ago, slow news day and managed to invent a story about something that was never going to happen, great times, got drivers involved everything!!

[opplock]

"The Lotus nameplate eventually reached Indycar, although its involvement was far from auspicious."

 

1965? Or is someone going to tell me that the pre IRL editions of Indy 500 have been erased from history? Rather like F1 does with everything pre 1950. 

[WonderWoman61]

"The Lotus nameplate eventually reached Indycar, although its involvement was far from auspicious."[/size]
 
1965? Or is someone going to tell me that the pre IRL editions of Indy 500 have been erased from history? Rather like F1 does with everything pre 1950. [/size]

Referring to the 2012 Indycar Season.

[AJCee]

Then surely it should say “the Lotus nameplate eventually returned to Indycar”?

[messy]

In answer to the OP, the 2021 Belgian Grand Prix *runs away*

[opplock]

 Or is someone going to tell me that the pre IRL editions of Indy 500 have been erased from history?  

 

It only took 5 minutes. Who's going to tell AJ Foyt?

[F1matt]

The Ferrari Indycar project was a stunning looking car, definitely a loss for everyone. 

[sabrejet]

The Ferrari Indycar project was a stunning looking car, definitely a loss for everyone. 

 

Designed by Gustav Brunner IIRC; an elongated RAM 03.

[WonderWoman61]

Designed by Gustav Brunner IIRC; an elongated RAM 03.

Suppose Brunner had to do something with that updated 1985 car after the RAM team's hopes of entering the 1986 season were dashed and the team folded.

[Bloggsworth]

"The Lotus nameplate eventually reached Indycar, although its involvement was far from auspicious."

 

1965? Or is someone going to tell me that the pre IRL editions of Indy 500 have been erased from history? Rather like F1 does with everything pre 1950. 

Well, given that I worked on the Lotus 34s of both Jim Clark's and Dan Gurney's in 1964, I can confirm that the Indy 500 definitely existed before IRL...

[brucemoxon]

I think they left off the time Auto Action got taken in by that idiot who said he'd got approval for a street race around Cronulla, in Sydney's south. I mean, there's lots of street racing there already, but this bloke was going to have Supercars there. 

Auto Action ran it on the front page. 

 

 

 

BRM

[ensign14]

"The Lotus nameplate eventually reached Indycar, although its involvement was far from auspicious."

 

1965? Or is someone going to tell me that the pre IRL editions of Indy 500 have been erased from history? Rather like F1 does with everything pre 1950. 

1965 wasn't Indycar.  Champcar.

[petere]

Suppose Brunner had to do something with that updated 1985 car after the RAM team's hopes of entering the 1986 season were dashed and the team folded.

I don't think you were supposed to take that literally....

[WonderWoman61]

I don't think you were supposed to take that literally....

I am on the Autism Spectrum. It's in my nature to take things literally.

[ReWind]

Just recently there was a two-page-article by Michael Schmidt about the Ferrari 637 in the magazine "MOTORSPORT aktuell" (09 August 2023 issue [No. 35 *], p. 10/11).

 

* Don't ask questions about the logic of their numbering.

[10kDA]

1965 wasn't Indycar.  Champcar.

Nor was 1965 Champcar. It was the USAC Championship. Champ Car as a sanctioning organization operated in the 'oughts just before the "reunification" of national-level open wheel racing in the US (and occasional blips elsewhere). No connection to the current budget-minded production-based race series also known as ChampCar.

 

In any event, the problem appears to be the inability or unwillingness of some typists to consult the archives of their employers, for clarity if for no other reason. I don't think it's wrong to assume a professional approach is appropriate. They are getting paid, it's not like they are casually launching comments to a forum. Surely Race Torque has some sort of archive...

[Stephen W]

1) Michael Andretti was F1 World Champion.

2) The Scottish GP was held at Ingliston in 1971 and won by Howden Ganley in a March 721 Alfa Romeo.

3) The inaugural Gibraltar GP was won by Bernie Eccleston in a Gordini.

5) Enrico Bentarmco was employed by ATS in 1963 as his plumbing skills came in handy during engine changes.

6) There are four Maserati V12 3 litre engines currently being used in Monaco as boat anchors.

7) The FIA stopped the use of the number 4 as it was being mistaken with a term from golf.

[Michael Ferner]

7) The FIA stopped the use of the number 4 as it was being mistaken with a term from golf.

 

... which proved to be a problem during mixed broadcasts of F1 events with other sports. Next to go is number fifteen to stop confusing tennis lovers.

 

(Watch out in case you want to expand your list!!)

[Michael Ferner]

"The Lotus nameplate eventually reached Indycar, although its involvement was far from auspicious."

 

1965? Or is someone going to tell me that the pre IRL editions of Indy 500 have been erased from history? Rather like F1 does with everything pre 1950. 

 

There was no "Indycar" in 1965. They didn't say "the nameplate eventually reached the Indy 500", did they? Pointless squabbles over pointless nameplates.

[lustigson]

https://www.unracedf1.com/

[flatlandsman]

Lol at the number 4

 

Can you imagine Murray giving it a full "four" half the country playing golf would be running for cover, bless him!

[Jim Thurman]

There was no "Indycar" in 1965. They didn't say "the nameplate eventually reached the Indy 500", did they? Pointless squabbles over pointless nameplates.

Nor was there an "Indycar" in 1963 either 

 

It's not pedantic at all to point out, as 10kDA did, that it was Championship racing, or USAC Championship racing, or even just USAC Championship. That's how the newspapers, even motorsport publications, reported it at the time. "Indycar" came into vogue much later. 

[WonderWoman61]

http://forix.autospo...neverraced.html

[Michael Ferner]

"The Indycar nameplate eventually reached the Indy 500, although its involvement was far from auspicious."

[AJB2]

A Christmas issue of Autosport in the 1970's had a banner headline "Reykjavik GP Sensation!!" Of course there was nothing inside about this event. 

I think it was the 1970 Christmas edition that had a "report" on a previously unmentioned Formula Libre race on a Caribbean island IIRC, that had been kept completely under wraps for political reasons, which included amongst many other outlandish cars and items, a wooden pontoon bridge across on inlet or bay. This scuppered the Chaparral 2J as the gaps between the planks prevented its ground effects from working. Penske had carefully studied the tide charts to ascertain when the bridge was in a dead straight line for their practice run. and to further legitimise their story, it also featured in at least one other motoring newspaper.

[ensign14]

The fake Christmas report was on the Bermuda GP.  Which included a Harley Davidson with stabilizers so that it qualified as a car.  Ridden by the Governor-General IIRC.

[Lee Nicolle]

I think they left off the time Auto Action got taken in by that idiot who said he'd got approval for a street race around Cronulla, in Sydney's south. I mean, there's lots of street racing there already, but this bloke was going to have Supercars there. 

Auto Action ran it on the front page. 

 

 

 

BRM

Well it is not known as Auto Fiction for no reason!

[Lee Nicolle]

http://forix.autospo...neverraced.html

Would the Tucker have used a helicopter engine like his road cars?

[john winfield]

Nor was there an "Indycar" in 1963 either 

 

It's not pedantic at all to point out, as 10kDA did, that it was Championship racing, or USAC Championship racing, or even just USAC Championship. That's how the newspapers, even motorsport publications, reported it at the time. "Indycar" came into vogue much later. 

10kDA, Jim, Ensign knows perfectly well that 'Champ Cars' didn't exist in 1965. I'm sure he was just teasing.  USAC, CART, IRL.....it's confusing for us limeys!

Edited by john winfield, 30 August 2023 - 10:40.

[john winfield]

Der Grosser Preis von Deutschland 1977 at the Nurburgring. Won by Jochen Mass.

[WonderWoman61]

Would the Tucker have used a helicopter engine like his road cars?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[ian senior]

The Bermuda GP spoof (in my teenage ignorance I thought it was for real) was also "reported" in Motoring News. I recall that one of the entrants was Gijs Van Lennep driving a March 701 fitted with DAF Variomatic transmission.  It had to use a Cosworth DFW engine as  the transmission could not cope with the extra torque produced by a DFV.

[Glengavel]

I'll go out on a limb and say I'm firmly of the belief that, despite what several eminent drivers say, Porsche did not fit a chassis-monitoring pressure gauge in the cockpit of the 917. Are there any pictures of this mythical beast?

[D-Type]

The Bermuda GP spoof (in my teenage ignorance I thought it was for real) was also "reported" in Motoring News. I recall that one of the entrants was Gijs Van Lennep driving a March 701 fitted with DAF Variomatic transmission.  It had to use a Cosworth DFW engine as  the transmission could not cope with the extra torque produced by a DFV.

That's not that ridiculous as there was a Formula 3 car with a DAF Variomatic transmission.  

[AllanL]

 

3) The inaugural Gibraltar GP was won by Bernie Eccleston in a Gordini.

 

I was about to say that, of course, the inaugural Gibraltar GP was won by Prince Phillip in a Morris Minor - I have the LP to prove it.

 

But, as the topic is fings wot didn't happen your error is correct. I think......

[10kDA]

That's not that ridiculous as there was a Formula 3 car with a DAF Variomatic transmission.  

WTH was THIS guy thinking?

 

https://i.pinimg.com...89bcf133811.jpg

[MCS]

Der Grosser Preis von Deutschland 1977 at the Nurburgring. Won by Jochen Mass.

Ha ha.  I had forgotten that - well remembered, John.

[opplock]

 I recall that one of the entrants was Gijs Van Lennep driving a March 701 fitted with DAF Variomatic transmission.  It had to use a Cosworth DFW engine as  the transmission could not cope with the extra torque produced by a DFV.

 

As they say on TV, based (very loosely) on a true story. Fitting DAF transmission is about the only thing that would have made a DFW powered March 701 even more useless. Chris Amon used such a device in the 1971 Tasman Series. After the first race at Levin STP bought a Lotus 70 to replace it. Amon finished third at Levin but his elapsed time was almost a minute slower than he'd achieved in the Ferrari 246T 2 years earlier. Even more embarrassingly he had been overtaken at mid distance by Graeme Lawrence who had started at the back of the grid.... driving the ex Amon Ferrari. Unfortunately for Lawrence he severed an oil line after colliding with a lapped car.    

[D-Type]

 

3) The inaugural Gibraltar GP was won by Bernie Eccleston in a Gordini.

 

Talking of Bernie, we can add the (genuine) one "Bernie Ecclestone tried to qualify his Connaught in the 1958 Monaco and British GPs".  He drove it in practice at both races, but he never had any intention of qualifying the car and racing it.

[Stephen W]

That's not that ridiculous as there was a Formula 3 car with a DAF Variomatic transmission.  

 

The F3 car with DAF variomatic transmission was relatively successful especially at circuits like Monaco.

[RCH]

Enzo Ferrari got the 1964 Coppa Inter Europa cancelled at the last minute to prevent Cobras from winning the GT championship.

[WonderWoman61]

Mat Jackson returning to the British Touring Car Championship in 2020, scuppered by the COVID-19 pandemic.

[F1matt]

Mat Jackson returning to the British Touring Car Championship in 2020, scuppered by the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

 

Forgot about that, working in the family furniture shop now. 

[WonderWoman61]

Mauro Martini planned to enter Indycar racing in 1997. Decided against it after Jeff Krosnoff died.

[john winfield]

Giancarlo Martini making his Formula One debut at the 1976 Race of Champions, in that rarest of things, a privateer ex-works Grand Prix Ferrari. He went off into the banking on the warming-up lap.    He did get to race four weeks later though, at Silverstone.

 

(I remember the car being a 312T, or looking like one, of 1975 vintage with the high airbox. DSJ, on the other hand, in his Motor Sport report (April 1976) refers to it as a 1974 312/B2, chassis 021. Would this late 1974 car have been upgraded to appear more like a 312T? Is DSJ wrong? The few photos I can find of Martini at Brands look nothing like a 1974 312B2 as I remember them. Any thoughts?)

[Vitesse2]

The number of 'never happened' circuits must be in the hundreds, if not thousands. Just off the top of my head: Greaves Hall, Southport; Scarborough - two separate but related 1930s projects, plus a proposed midget racing oval; Trickley Coppice, Sutton Coldfield - probably twice, both before and after WW2; The Downs, Bristol; Trafford Park, Manchester; Arthur's Seat, Edinburgh; Balado Bridge, Kinross; Zurich - a public road circuit; a Peak District public road circuit proposed for the Tourist Trophy in the 1950s; a pre-WW2 proposal for Brands Hatch - which might be pretty much what eventually became the original Club Circuit; various proposals for tracks in the Downs above Brighton; the Circuit of Wales, Blaenau Gwent; an unnamed site in Buckinghamshire in the 1930s; Glendowie in Auckland - again on public roads; an abandoned 1939 project in Ballarat, on which construction had apparently started; an unnamed location near Perth, WA ...

[Glengavel]

The number of 'never happened' circuits must be in the hundreds, if not thousands. Just off the top of my head: Greaves Hall, Southport; Scarborough - two separate but related 1930s projects, plus a proposed midget racing oval; Trickley Coppice, Sutton Coldfield - probably twice, both before and after WW2; The Downs, Bristol; Trafford Park, Manchester; Arthur's Seat, Edinburgh; Balado Bridge, Kinross; Zurich - a public road circuit; a Peak District public road circuit proposed for the Tourist Trophy in the 1950s; a pre-WW2 proposal for Brands Hatch - which might be pretty much what eventually became the original Club Circuit; various proposals for tracks in the Downs above Brighton; the Circuit of Wales, Blaenau Gwent; an unnamed site in Buckinghamshire in the 1930s; Glendowie in Auckland - again on public roads; an abandoned 1939 project in Ballarat, on which construction had apparently started; an unnamed location near Perth, WA ...

 

A plan for a new Scottish circuit at Forrestburn apparently was granted planning permission but never progressed further, save for a hillclimb circuit.

[Derwent Motorsport]

The Forrestburn track was after the hill climb was there.  Indeed I was competing there one year and the circuit was pegged out and the base for the workers compound was in place.  

[john winfield]

The proposed Rolleston/Southwell circuit in Nottinghamshire.