207 replies to this topic

[F1Frog]

It has occurred to me that almost all of the major categories of motorsport seem to be having a disappointing season in 2023.

 

Formula 1 is still the most special for myself, but I think this is the worst season in 20 years because of the total inevitability of a Verstappen win every time, DRS being so ridiculously over-powered that it is making overtaking too easy, and race control still making poor decisions.

 

BTCC is supposed to be about just exciting racing, but the total ineffectiveness of the hybrid and the fact that NGTC has been going so long that the teams completely understand the cars now and never make mistakes mean that most of the races have been quite processional and there is never any variation in performance within a weekend.

 

Formula e has been okay, but the random and repetitive nature of the slipstreaming, energy-saving races is making them all blend together and seem quite forgettable, in my opinion.

 

IndyCar has also been quite good this season, probably the best of these series, although the ending of the Indy 500 was very anti-climatic.

 

WRC has not been at its best for a few years now because of the lack of competitive cars.

 

DTM seems to have lost its identity in recent years and I don't really follow it anymore.

 

WEC died when they introduced balance of performance, which has turned every race, even the great Le Mans, into a bit of a farce, and results seem meaningless when each team wins just after their rival is slowed down.

 

NASCAR died long ago when they introduced the terrible, terrible playoffs points system. Perhaps you can still enjoy individual races but the actual championship is a joke.

 

The world touring car championship doesn't even exist any more. I can't comment on MotoGP because I haven't been following it at all.

 

So I feel as though practically every major motor racing series is on a low ebb at the moment, and only as recently as 2018 most of them were doing extremely well. Do other people feel the same way? And if so, is it a coincidence?

[highdownforce]

WEC is a blast!
2024 season will be nuts.

[ARTGP]

I don't have an opinion on many of the series that I do not watch, but anyone who didn't enjoy Le Mans this year is choosing to be miserable. 

Edited by ARTGP, 27 August 2023 - 21:48.

[PayasYouRace]

BTCC has been great this year, as always.

[JHSingo]

I think you have to find enjoyment where you can.

 

It's definitely true that there's no real close championship battles in any big series right now. Verstappen has been 2023 World Champion for several months already, Bagnaia's got over his early season wobbles in MotoGP, Palou has the IndyCar title under lock, and Ash Sutton is doing his best Max Verstappen impression in the BTCC...

 

However, for me the personal highlight of this season has definitely been Le Mans. I don't really get the BoP complaints - and I've made this clear already. Faced between the choice of what we had prior to this year (very small car count, and a near guaranteed Toyota win every time) to now, and there's no contest in my mind. 

 

Although IMSA still remains my sportscar series of choice right now. It's been so fun to follow this year. 

 

And, despite my concerns about the increased aero nonsense and introduction of sprint races in MotoGP, I've still enjoyed following that quite a lot this year too. There's been some excellent races. 

 

As far as F1 goes, it's been great to see Alonso back in contention. And, aside from Max Verstappen being on another planet, the regulations appear to be working in terms of how close everyone else is. 

 

So, it's not all doom and gloom. 

[jonklug]

Neah, this is a season of F1 that will live in memory for a long time, we are witnessing something historic. And not just because of Verstappen being flawless and record breaking and RedBull making a great car.

 

We've seen Aston Martin make a huge step forward and Alonso still being a beast with so many podiums at 42 which is insane to even think about.

 

Then we had McLaren post the biggest in season step forward that we've seen in years from a team that was stuck so long in the midfield. 

Lastly we can't forget Williams' step forward either. Albon just qualified 4th for crying out loud, that was unthinkable even as early as some months ago.

 

You have a different podium every race, you have so many teams capable of being on the podium, yes #1st place might not be a question but everything else is open and exciting and fascinating. 

[noikeee]

Neah, this is a season of F1 that will live in memory for a long time, we are witnessing something historic. And not just because of Verstappen being flawless and record breaking and RedBull making a great car.

 

We've seen Aston Martin make a huge step forward and Alonso still being a beast with so many podiums at 42 which is insane to even think about.

 

Then we had McLaren post the biggest in season step forward that we've seen in years from a team that was stuck so long in the midfield. 

Lastly we can't forget Williams' step forward either. Albon just qualified 4th for crying out loud, that was unthinkable even as early as some months ago.

 

All those things feel like things that will live in memory for 5 minutes. Albon's 4th... okay.

Edited by noikeee, 27 August 2023 - 23:56.

[Ruusperi]

It could always be worse.    Imagine F1 season with no drop of rain in any weekend. Aston Martin being slow. Perez always finishing 2nd.

 

Also there's a bias affecting judgement, that the less intensively you follow some sport, the more distant and boring it feels. There might be nothing wrong with sport itself, you yourself just have grown out it. I concur that WRC today seems boring, but maybe partly because I hardly ever watch it (due to the lack of coverage). If I was very passionate about rallying and had WRC+ subscription, I'd probably rate the season higher as well.

 

Obviously you can always compare previous seasons and certainly, for example, 2012 was objectively better season for F1 and 2001 for WRC.

Luckily, there's always next year.

[jonklug]

All those things feel like things that will live in memory for 5 minutes. Albon's 4th... okay.

 

Alonso getting 6 podiums at 42 is forgettable?

First time in years where Williams is actually competitive is going to live in memory for 5 minutes? Ok.

Verstappen equaling and likely beating the record of consecutive wins? 

Guess for some unless their guy is winning then it's not interesting, if that were the case I would have stopped watching in 2013. There's always good stuff happening, and this season is no different. 

[Acathla]

I guess the Merc years are forgotten? Man, THAT was bad. 

[solochamp07]

I think you have to find enjoyment where you can.
 
It's definitely true that there's no real close championship battles in any big series right now. Verstappen has been 2023 World Champion for several months already, Bagnaia's got over his early season wobbles in MotoGP, Palou has the IndyCar title under lock, and Ash Sutton is doing his best Max Verstappen impression in the BTCC...
 
However, for me the personal highlight of this season has definitely been Le Mans. I don't really get the BoP complaints - and I've made this clear already. Faced between the choice of what we had prior to this year (very small car count, and a near guaranteed Toyota win every time) to now, and there's no contest in my mind. 
 
Although IMSA still remains my sportscar series of choice right now. It's been so fun to follow this year. 
 
And, despite my concerns about the increased aero nonsense and introduction of sprint races in MotoGP, I've still enjoyed following that quite a lot this year too. There's been some excellent races. 
 
As far as F1 goes, it's been great to see Alonso back in contention. And, aside from Max Verstappen being on another planet, the regulations appear to be working in terms of how close everyone else is. 
 
So, it's not all doom and gloom.

Came here also to say IMSA. Was at Mosport (or whatever they call it now) last month for the big gp weekend, incredible racing, access, people. Most fun I’ve ever had as a spectator. That’s your tonic right there.

That said, I’ve really enjoyed F1 and Indy this year, there’s a lot going on behind the runaway (presumed) champions.

[Victor_RO]

WEC died when they introduced balance of performance, which has turned every race, even the great Le Mans, into a bit of a farce, and results seem meaningless when each team wins just after their rival is slowed down.

 

Sorry, but the disingenuousness of this comment is hard to ignore. If you actually look through sportscar regulations in the past 20+ years, considering the variety of car shapes and engine configurations that have been used over the years, you'll find all kinds of methods through which the rulemakers tried to *balance* them together (with varying degrees of success or failure). It may not have been called BoP explicitly, but fuel flow/energy allocations per lap, weight/restrictor tables etc. were ALL forms of performance balancing. Go back to 2006 when the Audi R10 came in and read Henri Pescarolo's complaints about the balance between diesel and petrol cars not allowing his cars to compete.

 

In short: performance balancing, in some form or another, has been a part of sportscar racing for decades, it isn't something that came in now.

[Afterburner]

The championships in all the series I follow lack any real tension, but the individual races have been great. The Dutch GP was awesome and the last two IndyCar races have been won by a driver starting from ~15th or worse, so it’s not like the winner was a foregone conclusion.

[RPM40]

The first post missed MotoGp which is typically one of the best forms of Motorsport but this year has been incredibly dull.

V8 Supercars on the other hand is having an excellent season after a couple of years of Van Gisbergen domination. The I frequent races and schedule a low point for what has been a great season.

[Cliff]

For me this is one of the best years. The driver I support is winning a lot and the battle behind him is as good as it will ever get.

[Ruudbackus]

I guess it depends on who you root for if its a dull year or not. If you can only take pleasure from "your guy" winning then yeah its dull if "your guy" isn't Verstappen if it comes to f1. But in fact we see a so far historical season poised to break a lot of unbreakable records. I for one love statistics, that keeps me glued to the screen even in dominant years. Mercedes and Hamilton set a lot of records, now Redbull and Verstappen are. The races themselves aren't dull either, yeah for first they are, behind that not so much. And who says that saturdays are boring hasn't watched a single qualy this year. The staurdays are intense. 

 

Le mans this year was the best race in ages, tight tense and Balance of Power or Success ballast has been here for quite a while. It only now entered Le Mans. I didn't mind because the race was great! Watched every single minute from it bar 1,5 hour where my eyes just refused to stay open.

 

F2 and F3 have had some good races too and in f2 the championship is evens till wide open with 2 races to go.

 

Other series I only follow from results as I have a life to attend to :-)

[jonpollak]

Racing is great..
What’s this guy talking about?

Jp

[F1Frog]

Racing is indeed great, but every motor racing series has some years that are better than others, and in 2023 I feel almost every major motor racing category has fallen upon a bad year at the same time. 2018 would be an example of a year when all the series were doing very well, in my opinion.

 

Formula 1 had a great title battle between two four-time champions in practically equal cars, and for me watching Lewis Hamilton totally destroy Sebastian Vettel was more impressive than Max Verstappen winning practically every race in the best car because he is so consistent. That is not saying that Hamilton's 2018 was better than Verstappen's 2023, just that it is a more interesting way of watching one driver be extraordinary. And there have been some great qualifying sessions this year but, Monaco excepted, the ease of passing with DRS has massively decreased their worth. When Hulkenberg was going to start second in Canada, it wasn't that special because it was so inevitable that he would be passed by one car every lap with DRS until he was outside the points. The Dutch Grand Prix was excellent though.

 

BTCC was a bit too random with 17 race winners, but there can surely be no doubt that the races were far, far more exciting to watch, and the championship standings still reflected that the cream rises to the top.

 

Formula e still had exciting races but they were more memorable than everyone swapping positions every corner, and there was an interesting storyline with Jean-Eric Vergne winning with the small Techeetah team and Audi dominating the second half of the season but not quite catching up.

 

WRC had one of its best seasons in recent times with the excellent three-way title battle between Sebastien Ogier (Ford), Thierry Neuville (Hyundai) and Ott Tanak (Toyota), while there were four competitive teams, all with multiple competitive drivers making it much more entertaining.

 

IndyCar - I confess that I don't remember this season of IndyCar at all apart from that Scott Dixon won but it has never been one of my most followed categories. This year it seems IndyCar has been very good and I wish I had watched more of the races.

 

DTM was more like DTM, had the typical three big manufacturers, and the interesting title battle as Rene Rast of Audi dominated the end of the season to hunt down Gary Paffett of Mercedes.

 

WEC was admittedly not good because it was the first season of Toyota being the only manufacturer team, but that doesn't make BoP good. WEC had the choice between two rubbish options and chose a rubbish option. Yes it has always existed in some form, in all motorsports, and Le Mans this year was very exciting, but it just feels fake and unsatisfying when Toyota win two races, are slowed down so Ferrari win Le Mans, then Ferrari are slowed down and Toyota win again. Maybe BoP has improved WEC because I have watched more this season than the past few years, but it still means WEC is on a low ebb. The years prior to 2018 were better.

 

Even NASCAR had something of a storyline at the start of the season with the 'big three' of Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick and Martin Truex Jr, but of course none of them won the title!

WTCR also had a good season that year with so many competitive cars and interesting drivers, and Gabriele Tarquini came out on top.

 

So it is perfectly possible that 2024 could see most of these series have a great season and a more competitive championship battle, but I feel that, for one reason or another, almost all of them have happened upon a bad season at the same time in 2023.

[RacingFan10]

Add MotoGP to the list - This year is like "DucatiGP" and with Pecco Bagnaia as the only single rider in the official Ducati team in front all the time (his team mate doing terrible). And somehow the satellite Ducati teams seem afraid of causing him (the official team) too much trouble. I hate this current season... I hope guys like Marquez and Quartararo get a competitive bike again soon and put the privileged italian in his place. I'm not saying he is a bad rider but he has no real competition. The KTM is now the 2nd best bike, but still slower.

Edited by RacingFan10, 28 August 2023 - 09:39.

[F1Frog]

I think the story of the FE season was that Porsche looked unbeatable in the opening third, whilst Jaguar really seemed to struggle. JEV did get that surprise win for DS-Penske (not strictly Techeetah, though there was significant team personnel carry over). Middle third was the Jaguar powered teams really hitting their stride whilst Porsche cars faded. Last third started with random masterclass from Max Günther for Maserati, but boiled down to Jaguar vs Porsche power across both factory and customer efforts.

(Feel like I should point out that there was no Audi)

All in all I think having a strong narrative thread of main protagonists and some genuine surprise performances - notably absent from some recent seasons - was perhaps the opposite of a disappointment for me. The racing itself was good, with some variety in racing style through the season depending on the track characteristics and energy levels. Some were much like the kind we’ve been used to in FE, whilst I others pushed the bounds of energy saving and slipstreaming.

As for the main thread question? Depends what you follow and what your expectations are.

I think you have misunderstood me a little. The OP was about 2023, and the post you have quoted is my comparison to 2018 (just as it was a recent year that I thought was very good for motorsport). So the Techeetah and Audi references are from season four.

[Ben1445]

I think you have misunderstood me a little.

Seems so. Apologies. Deleted.

[Sterzo]

The championships in all the series I follow lack any real tension, but the individual races have been great.

I've always regarded a championship as an administrative exercise, keeping scores on a spreadsheet. Sort of interesting but an insignificant component in the appeal of racing.

 

This year so far, haven't attended any racing, but rely on TV and olde worlde paper Autosport to follow. Have enjoyed individual races in F1, Indycar, F2, F3, F4, F Regional, GB3, GB4, Formula Ford, Minis, 750 MC Bikesport, Formula E, Superformula, Le Mans, British GT, frustrated to miss MotoGp, Moto2 and 3, BSB and WSBK... Oh, did I mention enjoying Hot Hatches at Snetterton or one-make BMWs at Croft?

[Primo]

The only thing that has disappointed me so far is MotoGP. The fall of Honda and Yamaha has dragged two of the three best riders into the darkness and although I have nothing against Bagnaia, his victories feel a bit hollow. 

Sure, similar can be said for F1, that the failure by Mercedes and Ferrari to create decent machinery takes some shine out of Verstappens victory, but for me that is different. At least Ferrari and Mercedes are not the worst machines on the grid, which is the case for Honda and Yamaha in MotoGP.

[flatlandsman]

It depends what you are watching,  Sadly in lots of top end motorsport domination is killing interest, F1, MotoGP, SBK, BSB even BTCC to some extent. 

 

If you go a bit lower there is still fabulous stuff around.  My newest love is hillclimbs, loads of amazing tracks, cheap to get in, lovely people, all will have a chat as long as you do not pester them in busy times, locations are stunning, cars are fast.

 

There has been a lot of transition in the UK, rallying has almost disappeared as a spectator sport due to insurance primarily, so that is not as easy to get into as it was, club racing is great at times, but at other times it is a droney same car mess that is great if you like close racing but can be utterly dull if you like variety, you have to choose. Venues are becoming tricky, Silverstone only really care about 3 or 4 meetings a year that make them vast sums, the rest of time it is a cold, unfriendly place full of barriers, building sites and places you used to be able to go but can't!!  Palmer does a great job with his venues, they are more welcoming and friendly, but he has less "big" meetings I suppose with huge potential crowds. That is good for some.

 

Goodwood has its place still but is becoming a sort of Henley for cars, attending is becoming very expensive even though there is a lot to see and do, they are pricing themselves into the market they have created, wealth. But I think they can justify it, just!

 

For me the best stuff is Moto3 and Moto2 unpredictable, WEC is fabulous at the moment, IMSA can be too at times. 

 

GTWC has gone away recently BoP is making it very dull and you feel one car dominates one venue then not the next, I just lost interest in it

 

Being honest I spend most of time time these days watching rallying from Europe, rallycross, hillclimbs form Europe and the UK. And a few other things.  Top level motorsport is out of my price range especially f1, plus it has become dull and monotonous, too many rounds too much money, too much interference from stewards. 

 

And in terms of rooting, I have never been that guy, have a few people I like to see do well, but never at the expense of others.  I do however have people I do NOT want to do well that is entirely different!!

Edited by flatlandsman, 28 August 2023 - 10:35.

[ArnageWRC]

F1 is as poor as it's ever been, and MotoGP is hell bent on following it.....

 

However, IMSA is having another fabulous year, and the WEC is in rude health, and whilst I dislike BoP it's a neccessity - it just needs to be more open and consistent in its application. Indycar too is providing some excellent racing.

 

MXGP is interesting, but Geerts getting injured again is a blow to the MX2 title race, and similarly in MX, Herlings looked to taking the fight to Prado, but got injured, and then again; Febvre has had a run of good results, but has hardly cut the gap to Prado......who 'only' needs to stay fit to win the title.

 

The WRC stumbles from one crisis to another with poor leadership and even worse promotion.....Would people notice if it disappeared? Not on here they wouldn't......

[hayabusasc]

I tend to just follow F1 and the interest has definitely declined somewhat. That's no fault of Max who has been fantastic and deserves all his wins.

The best F1 seasons for me have been those with a close title battle.

I'm quite close to a similar point in the Hamilton era where I didn't bother tuning into the races cause I already knew the outcome.

Hopefully the Ferraris and Mercedes of this world can catchup abit.

[Burtros]

I had this thought the other day. I follow three series closely, F1, Indycar and BTCC. All the drivers titles are pretty much decided

But this hasn’t been a bad season in any of them. All have had some great races amongst displays of absolute dominance from the best driver on the grid.

[piszkosfred]

Add MotoGP to the list - This year is like "DucatiGP" and with Pecco Bagnaia as the only single rider in the official Ducati team in front all the time (his team mate doing terrible). And somehow the satellite Ducati teams seem afraid of causing him (the official team) too much trouble. I hate this current season... I hope guys like Marquez and Quartararo get a competitive bike again soon and put the privileged italian in his place. I'm not saying he is a bad rider but he has no real competition. The KTM is now the 2nd best bike, but still slower.

Bezzecchi won in Argentina and in France, Martin in Germany (both races), Alex Marquez a sprint, so I don't see why they would be afraid of the official team. Aleix won in Silverstone, Binder won two sprint races and even Rins won a race with the Honda. And that race could have been a win for Marquez but he got injured because of his own stupidity. Wheel to wheel racing maybe lacking a little bit but there were races won by 3,5,10 seconds too when Marquez was dominating. As for Quartararo, he's one place ahead of his teammate and by his own admission wasn't very motivated this year. 

[AlexPrime]

Interesting topic. We can compare which series we follow   
F1 is cool for me, it is not proper exciting, but as a RBR fan I enjoy the dominance of Max. I believe he might be the best driver I have witnessed winning in my years as a viewer and I find this to be cool. I also enjoyed the domination of Seb after 2010, so he brings me back to those years and nostalgia can make many things better. I also enjoy F2 and occasionally F3, although following our driver Nikola Tsolov can be emotionally taxing.
Le Mans on the other hand IMO was a farce. I like BoP, but not the way ACO spit on its own word a week before the big race. I feel utterly disgusted by the fake Ferrari win and I don't believe that will follow WEC anytime soon. I switched to EWC though, which is great, particularly the race in Suzuka.
I don't follow WRC much, but from what I have seen, it is nice and closer than last season. ERC is always cool as well.
The touring cars world tour is fun and no less fun than the world cup, definetly more than the former world championship.
The highlight of the year for me are the new series I started to watch. While I took a break from MotoGP, as my prefered riders are not competitive, I tried S1GP (Supermoto), which came to my country and find it to be absolute gem of a series. The rider I support does not seem to be the strongers, but is a daredevil and a joy to watch - Lukas Hollbacher. I also discovered Hard Enduro, in which there is a strong Bulgarian rider (Teo Kabakchiev) and is another great championship to follow. Sometimes I check WSBK as well. There I root for neighbor Toprak   
I also plan to visit some domestic championships next month, so I think I have a great motorsport year. Personal highlight for me is visiting the Grand Prix of Bulgaria in S1GP and the only solid disappointment so far is Le Mans, although as a follower of our domestic footy championship, I should have been used to rigged games. 

[WonderWoman61]

F1 fits into this category hands down. It's boring watching Max Verstappen win all the time. When he finally gets beaten, I will start watching again, simple as.

[RacingFan10]

Bezzecchi won in Argentina and in France, Martin in Germany (both races), Alex Marquez a sprint, so I don't see why they would be afraid of the official team. Aleix won in Silverstone, Binder won two sprint races and even Rins won a race with the Honda. And that race could have been a win for Marquez but he got injured because of his own stupidity. Wheel to wheel racing maybe lacking a little bit but there were races won by 3,5,10 seconds too when Marquez was dominating. As for Quartararo, he's one place ahead of his teammate and by his own admission wasn't very motivated this year. 

 

You can have the rare race when a satellite wins or a rare race where a KTM or an Aprilia wins but Bagnaia is always up there to finish 2nd or in the podium if he doesn't win... the official team is the only one with good consistency and the Ducati is definitely head and shoulders above the rest of the bikes in overall performance on all tracks.

Not a Red Bull - esque dominance but they are clearly ahead and you can imagine the results at the end of the year, there's no excitement or no real competition. Honda and Yamaha are worse than ever.

Edited by RacingFan10, 28 August 2023 - 11:22.

[AlexPrime]

I forgot to add that IOMTT was very interesting this year, two great riders battling race after race.
I try to follow the highlights of Indy as well, but I fear I am not as interested as before. Don't know why, the racing is good.

[WonderWoman61]

The British Touring Car Championship has been alright despite the Motorbase dominance which doesn't bother me in the slightest because they are pretty much the only front-running team that hasn't produced an outright Champion yet. It is running a little low on "Star Drivers" though I feel.

[DS27]

All Championships I follow feel pretty much decided from some time ago. As well as those already mentioned, Speedway is being dominated again by Zmarzlik.

 

This being said, a lot of the individual races have still been great, even if the lack of a championship battle does take a little spice away from the show.

 

The biggest disappointment for me was Moto GP, but I no longer have the ability to watch that, so one less thing for me to moan about  

[noikeee]

Alonso getting 6 podiums at 42 is forgettable?

First time in years where Williams is actually competitive is going to live in memory for 5 minutes? Ok.

Verstappen equaling and likely beating the record of consecutive wins? 

Guess for some unless their guy is winning then it's not interesting, if that were the case I would have stopped watching in 2013. There's always good stuff happening, and this season is no different. 

 

I haven't had one of "my guys" winning since 2007.

 

I mean if you're enjoying the season fair enough, I'm bored out of my eyeballs. Was just commenting yesterday watching F1 to me feels like a chore now. Yeah the battle behind the Red Bulls is close and has some form swings which is nice, but personally I find it way way way more enjoyable when there's a fight for the lead and/or the championship. I would turn the TV off just like I did back in the Schumacher domination years but I'm kinda more invested into it now with the internet, communities like this and the Discord etc. But I'm definitely closer to turning it off and just doing something else than in years lol. Somehow even the excruciating Merc years felt more watchable than this thanks to an internal team-mate fight.

 

It's probably also because I've gotten older but "team that used to be **** is now good", like what's going on now with McLaren and Williams and Aston, feels momentarily interesting but hardly registers as something particularly interesting in the long run. It literally happens almost every year. It's not even as if these teams have been bad for that long, McLaren won a race 2 years ago, Williams were front runners when they had Massa and Bottas, Aston were front runners when they had the pink Mercedes. They're all multimillion operations they're not some crazy underdog stories.

Edited by noikeee, 28 August 2023 - 12:17.

[Gravelngrass]

You can add Motogp to that. The unexplainable aero route they have taken after F1 already showed it’s the wrong way has made racing worse. The domination by one brand coupled with the downfall of the Japanese makes has left two of the best riders unable to compete, with Honda doing the additional favor of almost crippling their whole rider stable. And what is worse, they seem decided to keep on going down the same road…

[messy]

I don't think its a vintage season anywhere really - maybe the last time I remember this is 2002 - MotoGP was boring, F1 was boring, WRC was dominated by one person etc, CART was in decline, although the Bayliss vs Edwards WSBK battle sort of made up some ground. This year the WEC is much better with all the new Hypercar entries, but F1, MotoGP, WRC, WSBK Indycar etc have all been a little bit drab. It happens.

Edited by messy, 28 August 2023 - 13:41.

[aportinga]

I guess the Merc years are forgotten? Man, THAT was bad. 

 

Just F1...

 

- Max & RedBull with a record breaking season.

- Alosno - Alonso - Alonso!

- Competiveness of the AM team in general.

- Although it's been a let down, having an American back on the grid was nice for awhile.

- McLaren upgrades allowing Lando and Piastri to shine.

- Qualifying has been awesome at nearly every race so far.

- Hamilton scraping his way to the front and consistently is awesome (I have faith that Merc will find the speed next season).

- Hulkenberg vs K Mags has been interesting.

- I used to be a tifosi but now I enjoy watching them shoot themselves in the foot so this has been another great season for that.

 

Overall - I expect McLaren, Mercedes and AM to be consistently at the front next season so I am pretty excited. IMO this season has shown better racing (behind Max) and more growth then 2022.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I guess the Merc years are forgotten? Man, THAT was bad. 

I don't think they're forgotten, but they were different.  For most years, either Hamilton's teammate kept him honest, or another team kept him honest (though as it turns out not by honest means).  Lewis being a polarizing character, almost everyone had a rooting interest in what was going on.  Lewis Hamilton is also a more mercurial driver than Verstappen, so sometimes even a Hamilton vs. Hamilton is an interesting battle to follow.  Verstappen, like Schumacher, just wants to crush the competition until there is nothing but fine sand left of it, so his dominance is so much more destructive for the sport (not that it's his fault).

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 28 August 2023 - 15:07.

[Risil]

Don't disagree with any of that. How much is coincidence and how much has a common cause, I don't know. Perhaps you're a little harsh on NASCAR, the racing has been good, a lot of the recent experiments have worked and tbh the championship format has always seemed strange to me.

[masa90]

I guess the Merc years are forgotten? Man, THAT was bad. 

 

Agree. If this domination would continue to such a long period it would be really tough for the whole sport to recover. It drained so much from the whole f1 I think. It still hasn't really recovered in my eyes.

[Anderis]

First time in years where Williams is actually competitive is going to live in memory for 5 minutes? Ok.

Don't forget Russell qualified Williams inside top3 a couple of times.

To have Albon finish one qualifying session on 4th place is really not that big of a deal in a grand scheme of things.

Edited by Anderis, 28 August 2023 - 16:11.

[TheFish]

If you're a Max or Red Bull fan you won't find this season boring, but fo me there has been basically no tension the entire season. I haven't watched every race this year but the ones I have watched, even yesterday that was probably the best race this season(?) there was still no tension at any point in the fight for the win.

 

Sure, the battle for 2nd place was alright for a while and there was quite a bit of overtaking (Ferrari going backwards with both cars was helpful for that) but I wasn't on the edge of my seat wondering what would happen.

 

Elite car, team and driver and the level of dominance is exceptional, but it's not exactly exciting viewing.

 

I recently rewatched Suzuka 2011 as it was on Sky Sports Germany and at various points it looked like Vettel, Alonso and then Button could win the race. I don't think we've had a race this season that has felt like that, but again I haven't watched them all so I may have missed one.

[Risil]

Monaco was good -- there was certainly some tension there.

[azza200]

It depends what you are watching,  Sadly in lots of top end motorsport domination is killing interest, F1, MotoGP, SBK, BSB even BTCC to some extent. 

 

If you go a bit lower there is still fabulous stuff around.  My newest love is hillclimbs, loads of amazing tracks, cheap to get in, lovely people, all will have a chat as long as you do not pester them in busy times, locations are stunning, cars are fast.

 

There has been a lot of transition in the UK, rallying has almost disappeared as a spectator sport due to insurance primarily, so that is not as easy to get into as it was, club racing is great at times, but at other times it is a droney same car mess that is great if you like close racing but can be utterly dull if you like variety, you have to choose. Venues are becoming tricky, Silverstone only really care about 3 or 4 meetings a year that make them vast sums, the rest of time it is a cold, unfriendly place full of barriers, building sites and places you used to be able to go but can't!!  Palmer does a great job with his venues, they are more welcoming and friendly, but he has less "big" meetings I suppose with huge potential crowds. That is good for some.

 

Goodwood has its place still but is becoming a sort of Henley for cars, attending is becoming very expensive even though there is a lot to see and do, they are pricing themselves into the market they have created, wealth. But I think they can justify it, just!

 

For me the best stuff is Moto3 and Moto2 unpredictable, WEC is fabulous at the moment, IMSA can be too at times. 

 

GTWC has gone away recently BoP is making it very dull and you feel one car dominates one venue then not the next, I just lost interest in it

 

Being honest I spend most of time time these days watching rallying from Europe, rallycross, hillclimbs form Europe and the UK. And a few other things.  Top level motorsport is out of my price range especially f1, plus it has become dull and monotonous, too many rounds too much money, too much interference from stewards. 

 

And in terms of rooting, I have never been that guy, have a few people I like to see do well, but never at the expense of others.  I do however have people I do NOT want to do well that is entirely different!!

 

GTWC when it was Blancpain i watched all the races for a 2-3 years now i only watch the Spa 24 hours gave up following it each year. Its the same cars year in year out it has got boring, to me it needs newer cars and more manufactures. 

Edited by azza200, 28 August 2023 - 19:32.

[flatlandsman]

Yes I am not sure why GTWC has gone a bit stale for me, maybe not others.

 

I think part of it is venues, they seem to go to places where overtaking is almost impossible, Brands Hatch for instance, great track but you cant pass there in big cars.

 

Some of the tracks are grear, Monza, Spa, nurburgring.

 

But BoP is a real hit and miss thing, you need some variance to enable passing, yet too much creates dominance!  I just think ,more eudurance races, less sprint helps

[ConsiderAndGo]

I think F1 is in the worse state it’s been in for a years. It just has no identity anymore. What is it? What’s it supposed to be and value? I also feel the stewards really are gaming F1 to make it seem more exciting than it is.

I will never forget that red flag for some stones on the track in Melbourne. F1 died a little for me that day and I’ve felt quite emotionless towards it since.

Le Mans by far the highlight and Indy has been okay. Way better than F1 to which I’ve watched no more than 2 races combined.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 28 August 2023 - 17:50.

[Beri]

BTCC has been great this year, as always.

 

I find it funny that the biggest Touring Car Championships are struggling to find a decent and exciting platform that works for manufacturers, drivers and fans. Just look at the demise of DTM, WTCC and WTCR. Yet BTCC has prospered over all those years and has been a prime example how a Touring Car Championship is done right. I am far from a regular viewer. But the one time that I do tune in, it usually is great stuff.

[messy]

I think F1 is in the worse state it’s been in for a years. There’s just has no identity anymore. What is it? What’s it supposed to be and value? I also feel the stewards really are gaming F1 to make it seem more exciting than it is.
I will never forget that red flag for some stones on the track in Melbourne. F1 died a little for me that day and felt quite emotionless since.

There’s not much magic anymore. That’s my opinion anyway - I quite regularly watch the old races on the F1 TV app and feel like there’s just a level of identity, romance, mystique and imperfection that’s gone completely. There are 1001 reasons why, maybe drivers are too accessible now in the age of social media, maybe the teams are just too high level, too professional, there’s too much money, too much pandering to sponsors, too many Middle Eastern locations, too many bells and whistles and too little on track unpredictability. Or maybe I’m just old and would always have said this (I’ll bold that bit do others don’t have to) - but I’m a football fan too, and I really don’t think the same applies there, at least not in the same way. The way we consume sport has changed drastically and I think moving with the times has taken away quite a lot of the fascination I used to have with F1.

Monza 2020, when Pierre Gasly won for AlphaTauri, or Hungary 2021 when it was Ocon for Alpine - had those shock results came in 2000, they would have been the most amazing, uplifting, emotional David vs Goliath stories, absolute sporting gold dust. But they happened in 2020 and 21, and I think lots of modern F1 fans would probably need to watch highlights to even remember they happened. Maybe even the drivers would. There’s just a different feel around the whole product, and I’m not sure why or whether it’s an actual thing or just me looking through rose tinted specs. But lots of the races in the mid-late 1990s were far worse than the ones we’re seeing now and yet somehow still far more interesting.

[ConsiderAndGo]

There’s not much magic anymore. That’s my opinion anyway - I quite regularly watch the old races on the F1 TV app and feel like there’s just a level of identity, romance, mystique and imperfection that’s gone completely. There are 1001 reasons why, maybe drivers are too accessible now in the age of social media, maybe the teams are just too high level, too professional, there’s too much money, too much pandering to sponsors, too many Middle Eastern locations, too many bells and whistles and too little on track unpredictability. Or maybe I’m just old and would always have said this (I’ll bold that bit do others don’t have to) - but I’m a football fan too, and I really don’t think the same applies there, at least not in the same way. The way we consume sport has changed drastically and I think moving with the times has taken away quite a lot of the fascination I used to have with F1.

Monza 2020, when Pierre Gasly won for AlphaTauri, or Hungary 2021 when it was Ocon for Alpine - had those shock results came in 2000, they would have been the most amazing, uplifting, emotional David vs Goliath stories, absolute sporting gold dust. But they happened in 2020 and 21, and I think lots of modern F1 fans would probably need to watch highlights to even remember they happened. Maybe even the drivers would. There’s just a different feel around the whole product, and I’m not sure why or whether it’s an actual thing or just me looking through rose tinted specs. But lots of the races in the mid-late 1990s were far worse than the ones we’re seeing now and yet somehow still far more interesting.

I agree with this; I watch a lot of archive races, even those I remember fondly and know the result of and feel way more excited than any live race today.

Age, kids, not enough time to invest in the sport, know of no one personally who follows it, utter dominance by one man, massive and sluggish cars, unappealing drivers, awful sound, ultra reliability, terrible commentators. It’s all just….. pants.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 28 August 2023 - 18:04.