10 replies to this topic

[FlyingSaucer]

So I was doing a research for another text of mine and needed a second opinion, as I always like to reconfirm with a second source what I have already discovered - to see if the information really matches.

 

Anyway, I wanted to know if anyone knows for sure the values of the agreement between Imperial Tobacco/Gold Leaf and Lotus, in 1968. From what I could check, I found in research done on tobacco company sponsorships and F1, stating that, at the time, the Imperial Tobacco agreed to pay Lotus £85,000 annually, plus some other smaller conditions (like painting the F1, F2, GT cars with GL colors, etc..).

 

The question is, can anyone confirm this value of £85,000? I would be extremely grateful for that.

[Vitesse2]

Surprisingly, this didn't seem to be big news as far as the national press was concerned, even though I remember advertising on the cars being - or at least becoming - controversial for televised races. Even though the TV companies had had no previous objections to either title sponsors like Guards cigarettes or BOAC - or Rothmans in cricket, come to that - or to trackside banners.

 

Of the major national papers only The Guardian and Daily Mail even mentioned it - nothing in The Times, Sunday Times, Daily or Sunday Telegraph or Daily Mirror. And only The Guardian's report even touched on the costs.

 

[Roger Clark]

Autocar, 18/1/68, announced the deal but said "there is still no indication of just how much they are putting into the season's racing".

[Vitesse2]

My guess would be that the only place reliable numbers might be found would be in a detailed balance sheet buried deep in Imperial Tobacco's annual results. Their beancounters would obviously need to know how much had been spent. Perhaps Companies House would have a copy?

 

Imperial's corporate records are supposedly stored in the City of Bristol Archive: https://discovery.na...ils/r/N13932893

 

However, unless they're misdescribed or not indexed the items in Bristol's catalogue apparently only refer to WD & HO Wills, which was another arm of Imperial, based in Bristol.

 

The National Archive index also says items relating to John Player are in Nottinghamshire Archives: https://discovery.na...89-0da50c5d66ae

 

However, I can't see anything relevant there apart from one photograph.

[FlyingSaucer]

So, apparently, it seems that it was not my fault, but rather, it is because it is really difficult to find this information.

 

For example, the source I found seems to me to be pretty reliable about these values ​​- it's a text called "Driving Addiction: F1 and Tobacco Advertasing", produced by Formula Money/Bloomberg. It says that this amount of £85,000 was the annual contractual basis, being stipulated that Imperial Tobacco would pay in a period of 3 years a total of U$250.000 to the Team Lotus.

 

I just wanted to check if this is true, even though it seems to me that the values ​​are reasonable and feasible with a sponsorship deal in the late 60´s.

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 06 September 2023 - 13:38.

[Dick Dastardly]

Wonder if Clive Chapman / Classic Team Lotus have archived records  / books / paperwork from his dad and, if so, whether there is anything in there to show how much. Of course, Clive may not be willing to disclose such information....

[FlyingSaucer]

I forgot to link the text where I found the info (if there is anyone interested as well). There it is:

 

https://exposetobacc...Formula-One.pdf

[Vitesse2]

I forgot to link the text where I found the info (if there is anyone interested as well). There it is:

 

https://exposetobacc...Formula-One.pdf

No referencing of sources, a possible date discrepancy - quoting $250000 for three years, but correctly noting that the GLTL sponsorship was 1968-71, so four seasons - and contradictory numbers on exchange rates.

 

£85000 per annum claimed - the exchange rate in the late 1960s averaged 2.4 dollars to the pound, so approximately $200000 per annum if £85000 is correct.

 

So perhaps it was $85000 per annum? Roughly £35500.

[Balltom]

Autocar, 18/1/68, announced the deal but said "there is still no indication of just how much they are putting into the season's racing".

I had a look through all the various motoring mags - Autosport, MN, Autocar, Motor Sport.

No specifics quoted anywhere as to the size of the deal.

I am missing access to Motor, but I rather doubt they would have anything further.

 

It is just possible that an advertising/PR trade journal such as ‘Campaign’ might have published something more specific, as this was quite a ground-breaking deal at the time…..

 

 

My guess would be that the only place reliable numbers might be found would be in a detailed balance sheet buried deep in Imperial Tobacco's annual results. Their beancounters would obviously need to know how much had been spent. Perhaps Companies House would have a copy?

 

Imperial's corporate records are supposedly stored in the City of Bristol Archive: https://discovery.na...ils/r/N13932893

 

However, unless they're misdescribed or not indexed the items in Bristol's catalogue apparently only refer to WD & HO Wills, which was another arm of Imperial, based in Bristol.

 

 

I think you are a little confused, or, more likely, your knowledge of accountancy is extremely limited.

 

A Balance Sheet is a statement of assets and liabilities at a particular point in time.

The amount of expenditure incurred on a particular project or item would NEVER be found anywhere in a Balance Sheet.

Instead it would be reflected in the Profit and Loss Account.

 

In any case expenditure on a particular sponsorship deal would NEVER be separately identifiable in the 

published accounts of a group such as Imperial Tobacco.

So the idea that an enquiry to Companies House might yield the requisite information is far fetched, to say the least….

Edited by Balltom, 21 September 2023 - 15:44.

[FlyingSaucer]

No referencing of sources, a possible date discrepancy - quoting $250000 for three years, but correctly noting that the GLTL sponsorship was 1968-71, so four seasons - and contradictory numbers on exchange rates.

 

£85000 per annum claimed - the exchange rate in the late 1960s averaged 2.4 dollars to the pound, so approximately $200000 per annum if £85000 is correct.

 

So perhaps it was $85000 per annum? Roughly £35500.

 

Yep, I also did the math in first place and it was also smt that worried me. 

 

To be quite honest, I trust the £85,000 annual figure (and I dismiss the 250,000 one). That's because I take into account that this ammount was not only directed towards the team's activities in F1, but also towards the F2s, GTs and Saloon cars that the factory Team Lotus lined up during these years. 

 

OK, I'm sure £35500 was a lot of money for the time, but that wouldn't do much for a team that needed to lined up cars in multiple championships not just across England, but around the world. And the Imperial Tobacco really wanted this partnership with Lotus, which probably made the company spend a good sum for the deal to go into effect.

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 07 September 2023 - 17:57.

[D-Type]

To put these figures in perspective, in 1968 the salary of a qualified engineer or a racing mechanic would be of the order £1500-£2000 pa.