725 replies to this topic

[Autodromo]

Well...people would have said that about e.g. Hunt in 1974 or Keke in 1981.  One never knows.  Having said that, people are fed up of most of those drivers - but they are not there because their father owns the team.

So perhaps Lance will one day be a WDC and that would be fun!  

[Collombin]

Or Lauda in 1973. He looked decent-ish in the BRM, but nowhere near a Stewart, a Cevert, a Peterson or a Fittipaldi.

I think Lauda in 1972 would count as an optimistic projection to be a future WDC though!

[ensign14]

So perhaps Lance will one day be a WDC and that would be fun!  

I think he's more Rebaque than Lauda.

[Cadence]

Solid performance by Lance today.

[FLB]

Solid performance by Lance today.

That's what they were looking for: Formula One Canadian GP Friday: Stroll In Search Of Success At Home - Inside Track Motorsport News (insidetracknews.com)

[Myrvold]

I wonder if the Fittipaldi's ever had fights about whether or not there should be a Fittipaldi in the team they owned and operated.

You read what you want to read, and ignore what you want to ignore. Though, I guess this is the first time Lance Stroll has been compared to Emerson Fittipaldi.

 

And, he does occupy 5% of a close shop, while constantly being beaten by his teammates (except race and points H2H with Sirotkin).

Edited by Myrvold, 09 June 2024 - 22:44.

[Cadence]

And, he does occupy 5% of a close shop, while constantly being beaten by his teammates (except race and points H2H with Sirotkin).

Yeah, beaten by multi-world champions imagine that? The shame!

[MikeTekRacing]

and Sirotkin is the only one he has outscored... It's not normal to keep a seat when constantly getting beaten by different teammates.

His teammates were Massa, Perez, Vettel and Alonso.
The first two are multiple race winners (Massa even close to a title), Vettel has 4 titles and Alonso 2.


Not a bad set of guys beat him. He wasn’t partnered with Latifi, Sargeant Magnussen or even Hulk.

[MikeTekRacing]

I am not really interested in engaging with that weird logic that everyone in the paddock who said something against Stroll is a hater.

Not at all. People that raced and worked him - i’ll take their word.
Not sure who you are besides a keyboard warrior so why would I not ask for facts?
I guess not engaging is pretty telling that you have no facts to back up you allegations

[Flyhigh]

My main criticism of Stroll or any other man in a similar situation for that matter, ione would look to find an avenue where he would be appreciate and value for his skills (A world class racing driver, probably top 50 racing driver) But This is never going to happen in F1, almost 10 years in. "The Trial period or playing around" which anyone win his position would for some time would do, should be over. To keep on going for over a decade, specially as the team tries to have larger ambitions than just being descent in F1 is clearly a burden. 

I read the arguments is rich to expect fans to be measured and evaluate drivers like they would a dentist, well he is a top 50 dentist in the world, when it comes to the top 20 dentists not so good, but give him credit. That´s not how fans, media or the overall circus of F1 works and as long as he is there he will receive attention, judgment and is hard to be positive when its what we have seen the last few years, considering he is almost 10 years into F1 his "potential" is truly measured and is simply not there to be a good F1 driver overall. While likely great in some other expressive racing series..    

[Myrvold]

Yeah, beaten by multi-world champions imagine that? The shame!

His teammates were Massa, Perez, Vettel and Alonso.
The first two are multiple race winners (Massa even close to a title), Vettel has 4 titles and Alonso 2.


Not a bad set of guys beat him. He wasn’t partnered with Latifi, Sargeant Magnussen or even Hulk.

 

This is like NASCAR. Going in circles.

 

Massa had initially retired, but was brought back to replace Bottas who got thrown in to Mercedes after Rosberg's retirement. It is also the same Massa that generally was looked at as having lost it post-Hungary accident, getting worse each season before a small "glow-up" at Williams before falling off again, and retiring at the end of 2016.

Then there was Vettel. Same story. Vettel in 2020... people have "been retired" for seasons like that before.

Perez might be the only driver Stroll have had as a teammate who might've been on top of this game, or at least not over the top.

Alonso is still very good, but he is also not as quick as he once was.

 

Funnily you should mention Hülkenberg. Super-Sub Hülk has a 2-2 qualifying record against Stroll. 3-1 to Stroll in races, though. Should honestly have been 4-0 in both considering the lack of testing for Hülkenberg in the car before subbing.

[Sterzo]

My main criticism of Stroll or any other man in a similar situation for that matter, ione would look to find an avenue where he would be appreciate and value for his skills

Whereas I'd hope that he or anyone else would do what they want to do. If that is racing cars, then I understand it totally. Whereas I don't identify with people who seek appreciation.

[Flyhigh]

Whereas I'd hope that he or anyone else would do what they want to do. If that is racing cars, then I understand it totally. Whereas I don't identify with people who seek appreciation.

My comment is not about third party "appreciation" is about adding value to something, most mature man in my view at some point would want to be in a place/field where he feels he truly adds value, aggregates to it, not just because he (forcefully) can be there.  

[Sterzo]

My comment is not about third party "appreciation" is about adding value to something, most mature man in my view at some point would want to be in a place/field where he feels he truly adds value, aggregates to it, not just because he (forcefully) can be there.  

Fair enough; but would you not think finishing 7th in a Grand Prix, one place behind Fernando Alonso in the same car, is an achievement which gives satisfaction and adds value? How many of us can claim an achievement with anything like the same value? Not in our wildest dreams do most of us imagine being able to do that. If I had that ability, would I give up and go somewhere else? Not a chance!

 

I agree with suggestions that there may be better drivers than Stroll (and several others) queueing up to reach F1. We might question the teams' decisions in keeping them. But why would we criticise any of them for doing what they've always dreamed of, when given the chance?

[Autodromo]

Fair enough; but would you not think finishing 7th in a Grand Prix, one place behind Fernando Alonso in the same car, is an achievement which gives satisfaction and adds value? How many of us can claim an achievement with anything like the same value? Not in our wildest dreams do most of us imagine being able to do that. If I had that ability, would I give up and go somewhere else? Not a chance!

 

I agree with suggestions that there may be better drivers than Stroll (and several others) queueing up to reach F1. We might question the teams' decisions in keeping them. But why would we criticise any of them for doing what they've always dreamed of, when given the chance?

Certainly Stroll must be finding substantially more satisfaction than Perez this season.

[krea]

Not at all. People that raced and worked him - i’ll take their word.
Not sure who you are besides a keyboard warrior so why would I not ask for facts?
I guess not engaging is pretty telling that you have no facts to back up you allegations

 

And again the same ****. Your reactions in this thread is sure something. 

[Secretariat]

You read what you want to read, and ignore what you want to ignore. Though, I guess this is the first time Lance Stroll has been compared to Emerson Fittipaldi.

 

And, he does occupy 5% of a close shop, while constantly being beaten by his teammates (except race and points H2H with Sirotkin).

I believe my reading comprehension is just fine and I always try and engage the words and be respectful. I have not put any words in anyone's mouth. I am sure if I have, I would have heard about it by now in this place. The comparison to Wilson AND Emerson is that it was a family run team. The point being made is if a family owned and operated team has family members who are capable drivers, seems likely they would employ those drivers. This is literally what is going on with the Strolls. Lawrence purchased teams and employed his son. This is not unique to either the Fittipaldis' or the Strolls' (family operations). Another example is the Rahals'.

 

If you saw that Fittipaldi comparison as a comparison of Lance Stroll to Emerson Fittipaldi, there is no chance in the world of having a rationale discussion if that is the leap of logic or comprehension of words that occurs here.    

 

EDIT: other notable examples of family operations to which you can feel free to choose the most applicable: Andretti, Foyt in addition to the afore mentioned Rahal. I feel confident that if the Fittipaldi's still had a team when he was old enough, Christian Fittipaldi would have driven for them.

Edited by Secretariat, 10 June 2024 - 20:28.

[Myrvold]

I believe my reading comprehension is just fine and I always try and engage the words and be respectful. I have not put any words in anyone's mouth. I am sure if I have, I would have heard about it by now in this place. The comparison to Wilson AND Emerson is that it was a family run team. The point being made is if a family owned and operated team has family members who are capable drivers, seems likely they would employ those drivers. This is literally what is going on with the Strolls. Lawrence purchased teams and employed his son. This is not unique to either the Fittipaldis' or the Strolls' (family operations). Another example is the Rahals'.

 

If you saw that Fittipaldi comparison as a comparison of Lance Stroll to Emerson Fittipaldi, there is no chance in the world of having a rationale discussion if that is the leap of logic or comprehension of words that occurs here.    

 

EDIT: other notable examples of family operations to which you can feel free to choose the most applicable: Andretti, Foyt in addition to the afore mentioned Rahal. I feel confident that if the Fittipaldi's still had a team when he was old enough, Christian Fittipaldi would have driven for them.

 

No other example is in a closed shop (yet, IndyCar might soon be).

I am not a fan of family-hiring family regardless. Cindric at Penske, Dillon at Childress, Gibbs at Gibbs, Custer at Stewart-Haas and NASCAR is a semi-closed series these days, which makes it worse.

 

What I was hinting at, was the questions that was left unanswered. How often does it happen that a driver continuously loses to a teammate, but it is the teammate that doesn't get a new contract/are fired?

[Secretariat]

No other example is in a closed shop (yet, IndyCar might soon be).

I am not a fan of family-hiring family regardless. Cindric at Penske, Dillon at Childress, Gibbs at Gibbs, Custer at Stewart-Haas and NASCAR is a semi-closed series these days, which makes it worse.

 

What I was hinting at, was the questions that was left unanswered. How often does it happen that a driver continuously loses to a teammate, but it is the teammate that doesn't get a new contract/are fired?

I suppose technically at the moment neither is F1. Obviously, that is a whole another discussion that is happening now. Nepotism can have positive and negative outcomes...I think it is a case by case basis, given that generally speaking it is fair to say that 2nd/3rd generation drivers have an advantage to opportunity...helps getting the foot in the door. Not a bad thing, just a fact of life and nature of the business...as is having cash. Nevertheless, I understand your feelings about family hires.

 

As it relates to your question, it seems it has been asked before and answered before. Even I took a basic stab at answering it in this thread or Aston thread. In very simple terms, it comes down to whether people think Massa, Vettel and Alonso are washed up or not. If a person thinks they are washed up, then the case for Stroll being fired is strengthened as he can not beat old guys. If they are not washed up, then the case for Stroll is strengthen by saying what do you expect from an average F1 driver against world champions and almost world champions.

 

If we really want to tackle that question, I am all for it. However, it does not change the fact Aston Martin is little more than a family owned and operated team with one of the drivers being related to the owner. Does not mean he is immune to losing the seat at some point, but he will be afforded every opportunity to make good on whatever talent anyone thinks he has. He is very experienced and only 25.

 

I posted on here in several threads that I thought he was destined for management very soon and that he will not make it beyond 2025. His recent statements would seem to indicate otherwise. Could be all PR that he is driving for the long term as reports indicate that Honda might have some influence. We will see.  

[Autodromo]

I suppose technically at the moment neither is F1. Obviously, that is a whole another discussion that is happening now. Nepotism can have positive and negative outcomes...I think it is a case by case basis, given that generally speaking it is fair to say that 2nd/3rd generation drivers have an advantage to opportunity...helps getting the foot in the door. Not a bad thing, just a fact of life and nature of the business...as is having cash. Nevertheless, I understand your feelings about family hires.

 

As it relates to your question, it seems it has been asked before and answered before. Even I took a basic stab at answering it in this thread or Aston thread. In very simple terms, it comes down to whether people think Massa, Vettel and Alonso are washed up or not. If a person thinks they are washed up, then the case for Stroll being fired is strengthened as he can not beat old guys. If they are not washed up, then the case for Stroll is strengthen by saying what do you expect from an average F1 driver against world champions and almost world champions.

 

If we really want to tackle that question, I am all for it. However, it does not change the fact Aston Martin is little more than a family owned and operated team with one of the drivers being related to the owner. Does not mean he is immune to losing the seat at some point, but he will be afforded every opportunity to make good on whatever talent anyone thinks he has. He is very experienced and only 25.

 

I posted on here in several threads that I thought he was destined for management very soon and that he will not make it beyond 2025. His recent statements would seem to indicate otherwise. Could be all PR that he is driving for the long term as reports indicate that Honda might have some influence. We will see.  

I've wondered if he would aim for a team principal-type role at AM at some point.

[Secretariat]

I've wondered if he would aim for a team principal-type role at AM at some point.

I still believe he will be in the WEC relatively soon. Everything that I have seen or read indicates that he is on revolving 1 year contracts. So, that leaves options both for him and options for management in terms of flexibility. At some point in the future I can see him in a Kobayashi style role (Toyota). Oddly enough I can see Alonso doing something similar. Question becomes when. However, there is a thought in the back of my mind that when Stroll is finished driving (forced or of his own accord), he can just as easily disappear into the wilderness earning dividends.

[BRG]

Lawrence Stroll is 65 yo so probably has a few more years as an active businessman .  Lance is his first-born son and presumably will inherit the Stroll billions and assets in due course, so it seems likely that at some point he might take over running the Stroll empire if his dad steps back into retirement.  In the meantime, I expect he will follow his motorsport dream so any concern over his future is not really important.

[KWSN - DSM]

Why does this thread exist?

[DW46]

Why does this thread exist?

Envy.

[BRG]

Why does this thread exist?

Not sure as Lance Stroll very obviously ISN'T on the way out.

Except in some people's dreams.

[PayasYouRace]

Luckily I happened along. I guess the report button doesn’t work for you guys?

Yes, it doesn’t appear as though Lance is leaving F1 any time, and with a lack of substance this has turned into a driver thread. So we’ll close it.

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