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2023 Japanese GP build up


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#1 TomNokoe

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:22

Who doesn't love an F1 double-header? As the sport crests the wave of relief after Red Bull's defeat in Singapore, where better to bask in the anticipation and excitement than super Suzuka?

 

Last year's Japanese Grand Prix was heavily weather-disrupted with a Friday washout and Sunday half-race mired in controversy, so in many ways this feels like Suzuka's true return to the calendar, with three dry days forecast and an increasingly competitive grid. Hopefully we see an event worthy of such a great track.

 

Red Bull's speed, Ferrari's resurgence, McLaren's upgrades, Tsunoda's home race... there's plenty on the menu for Round 16 of the 2023 FIA Formula One World Championship!

 

Wet-start-in-Suzuka.jpg

 

Suzuka-Circuit.png

 

Judgement for Japan

 

Red Bull and Verstappen will be licking their wounds after their tremendous win streaks ended at 16 and 10, respectively. Thankfully, Suzuka's smooth surface and sweeping layout should see a return to form, albeit with a few doubts looming after the recent technical directive. Verstappen can't win the drivers' title this weekend, but the team can take the constructors', so long as they outscore Mercedes by any amount, and aren't outscored to the tune of 24pts by Ferrari.

 

Mercedes will likely be joining Red Bull in misery corner after failing to capitalise on the rare chance for victory in Singapore. Last year's race was a frustrating affair, carrying a barn-door rear wing unsuited to Suzuka's demands. This year should allow the team to attack the track with a better package, but it's unlikely Red Bull will slip up two weekends in succession. Russell will need to mend his broken heart quickly to keep up with the action.

 

After missing out at Monza, Ferrari came good in Singapore to break the streak and really build some momentum ahead of the Japan. A rumoured new floor arrives this weekend, with all eyes on qualifying after missing out on pole last year by 0.01s. Underlying race pace fears will likely be exposed this weekend, but there's still points and podiums to be had, with only a 24pt gap to Mercedes in the WCC.

 

Despite such a bright start to the year, all of the hope and goodwill finally came crashing down for Aston Martin in Singapore. The car pace has evaporated, and they're now on the defensive from a charging McLaren. Alonso has lost 3rd in the WDC and is unlikely to wrestle it back. To make matters worse, Suzuka is unlikely to suit them either. The only positive it seems is Stroll's renewed commitment to impress his father.

 

Outside of Red Bull's domination, the biggest story of 2023 for me has been McLaren's revival, underlined again thanks to Norris' podium in Singapore. Both cars will run the full upgrade package this week, with a track layout not too dissimilar to Silverstone giving reason for great optimism. Pole? Double podium? Let's wait and see just how quick they are.

 

Elsewhere, Alpine's topsy-turvy year continued with Ocon retiring from a solid points finish, only to be saved by Gasly inheriting the lost points. The Singapore upgrades seemed to work, giving confidence for Suzuka. Williams will also be curious to see if they can repeat the surprise pace they showed at Silverstone and Zandvoort, with their strong straight line speed and benign car balance delivering ample lap-time.

 

A rare but welcome point for Haas and Magnussen was just rewards after a tricky year, but they will be daunted by Suzuka's high tyre degradation. Conversely, Alfa Romeo will be encouraged and may be able to put their own upgrades to better use after being stunted in Singapore.

 

Finally, Tsunoda races at home for the second time, with a hint of expectation on his shoulders. The upgraded Alpha Tauri was quick in Singapore, as shown by the ever-improving and impressive Liam Lawson, who has already raced at Suzuka this year in Super Formula.

 

Tyres and Weather

 

Suzuka-Pirelli.jpg

 

It's the C1-2-3 for the fifth time this year, as Suzuka's heavy tyre demands are set to be a key point for the weekend. Each driver has two sets of 2024 C2 tyres to test across FP1 and 2, so expect plenty of running. Tyre pressures unchanged from 2022, albeit there was little data to use anyway! Likely a two-stop on Sunday considering the high temperatures.

 

Fri - dry, 28C/82F, cloudy

Sat - dry, 29C/84F, sunny

Sun - dry, 27C/81F, sunny

 

Schedule

 

Set your alarms!

        BST     CEST 
FP1     0330    0430
FP2     0700    0800
FP3     0330    0430
Q       0700    0800
R       0600    0700

Convert to my time zone

 

BMW&Mini Racing and Porsche Carrera Cup Japan supporting, full schedule.

 

--

 

Thoughts, predictions, Japanese fan creations, ferris wheel pictures, bee-related puns and everything else welcome below :cat:

 



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#2 Risil

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:23

Hooray, Suzuka!



#3 AustinF1

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:25

F6cX8_5WUAANAqY.jpg

 

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#4 sportyskells

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:36

Watch alarm already set for the Sunday part. Saturday a bit more harder as I need to make sure I get to my sister's without breaking any of my brothers rules and try to get the 9.30am bus

#5 AustinF1

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:38

Watch alarm already set for the Sunday part. Saturday a bit more harder as I need to make sure I get to my sister's without breaking any of my brothers rules and try to get the 9.30am bus

This all seems very complicated. So many rules!



#6 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:39

I am disappointed with the weather comment in the opening post.



#7 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:40

Special helmets and liveries are the new fastfood of F1.



#8 Beri

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:45

Ahhhh Suzuka! Fans with strange contraptions on their heads incoming in 3.. 2.. 1..

XPB_1014971_HiRes-scaled-e1619266674332.

#9 SophieB

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:48

I have a twist on that. DRIVER doing that.

 

#TeamLH Japan
@TeamLH44JAPAN
8h
Lewis spotted at Nintendo Tokyo on Wednesday 水曜日にNintendo TOKYOにて [章鱼小姐 - 小红书]

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#10 TomNokoe

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:57

I am disappointed with the weather comment in the opening post.

Wet weather only makes things worse nowadays, IMO. I want to see the drivers on full attack!



#11 dissident

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:57

Oh, it's *this* weekend. 



#12 JimmyClark

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 19:59

I do love Suzuka (much more than Spa). And F1 has served us three brilliant races since the summer break, so hopefully that run continues.

Edited by JimmyClark, 20 September 2023 - 19:59.


#13 Anja

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:03

#bringbackfuji

 

*runs away*



#14 sportyskells

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:04

At least fia had learnt its lesson from last year (plus this thread will be a lot earlier next yesr)

#15 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:06

Wet weather only makes things worse nowadays, IMO. I want to see the drivers on full attack!

 

We need Spa weather, intermittent, give us the very best.



#16 JimmyClark

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:10

#bringbackfuji

*runs away*


As Pacific GP, I'd be happy with that.

#17 Risil

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:18

#bringbackfuji

*runs away*


They should go to both

#18 AustinF1

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:18

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#19 Beri

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:37

Bonus points this race for anyone who does a spin and win

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#20 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 20:42

Last autumn Japanese Grand Prix for the foreseeable future. We won't have as long to wait for the next one next spring.



#21 GlenWatkins

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 21:07

I do love Suzuka (much more than Spa). And F1 has served us three brilliant races since the summer break, so hopefully that run continues.

Luv both, can't pick a favorite myself.

#22 F1Gui

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Posted 20 September 2023 - 21:41

I have fond memories of watching the Jap GP in 1994 on my tiny 14" crt tv. Had to set my alarm clock and keep the noise down so not to wake my parents and I turned 16 that month too. It just doesn't feel right not having it as the last or penultimate race of the season.



#23 southernstars

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 02:54

Love Suzuka. And getting to watch a race at 3pm on a Sunday afternoon is such a novel, relaxed experience.

 

Some part of me is a little sad that the tradition of scrambling to pull Bathurst and Suzuka up on separate screens is over, though.



#24 Ragamuffin

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 05:08

Love Suzuka. And getting to watch a race at 3pm on a Sunday afternoon is such a novel, relaxed experience.

 

Some part of me is a little sad that the tradition of scrambling to pull Bathurst and Suzuka up on separate screens is over, though.

It's been so long since I regularity watched races at a normal time it make me wonder how the hell people get anything done at the w/e.


Edited by Ragamuffin, 21 September 2023 - 05:39.


#25 Yoshi

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 05:15

Wet weather only makes things worse nowadays, IMO. I want to see the drivers on full attack!


This :up:

#26 SB

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 05:21

F6cX8_5WUAANAqY.jpg

 

 

 

I initially thought it is Vettel who is going to drive the 2nd Astin Martin again  :p  :drunk:


Edited by SB, 21 September 2023 - 05:22.


#27 AustinF1

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 05:40

It's been so long since I regularity watched races at a normal time it make me wonder how the hell people get anything done at the w/e.

D.V.R.



#28 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 05:43

Wet weather only makes things worse nowadays, IMO. I want to see the drivers on full attack!


Yeah, I just don’t understand why anyone wants a wet race. They are awful these days and /or don’t even run.

Dry every time for me. Especially at such a glorious circuit such as this.

#29 CoolBreeze

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 05:53

Hoping for a slightly wet/damp track



#30 Nemo1965

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 06:35

I would like to add to the opening post that the Suzuka-track was designed by Dutchman Hans Hugenholtz. This was his masterpiece, but he also designed Zolder, België (1963), the stadium part of the Hockenheimring (Germany) Jarama, Spain (1967), and Ontario Motor Speedway. Almost all these tracks have glorious turns and/or elevation changes (except Zolder, that is boring). Hail Hans!

Edited by Nemo1965, 21 September 2023 - 17:45.


#31 sportyskells

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 06:46

Foe those hoping for a wet track prepare to be disappointed this weekend

#32 Mark A

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 07:05

I would like to add to the opening post that the Suzuka-track was designed by Dutchman Hans Hugenholtz. This was his masterpiece, but he also designed Zolder, België (1963), the stadium part of the Hockenheimring Jarama, Spanje (1967), and Ontario Motor Speedway. Almost all these tracks have glorious turns and/or elevation changes (except Zolder, that is boring). Hail Hans!

 

I always thought the same about Zolder being boring until I went there, and drove the track. It's not Spa but much better than people give it credit for. I think people have a downer on Zolder due to Spa and Gilles.



#33 loki

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 07:20

D.V.R.

I see your DVR and raise you a VCR.  With the clock still blinking…



#34 Pingu Pi

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 07:23

Who doesn't love an F1 double-header? As the sport crests the wave of relief after Red Bull's defeat in Singapore, where better to bask in the anticipation and excitement than super Suzuka?

 

...

Thanks @TomNokoe as usual for kicking our weekend off in style. Also appreciated your reluctance to allow the Bee thread to be the start... you hold onto this, there's no one better and it's very much appreciated  :D  :up:

 

Suzuka is a strange one for me... I love it's layout, the setting/scenery, the cars around this track are amazing to watch... and yet I find the races a bit of a snooze and unexciting affair from memory... I suspect it's a blend of 'difficult to overtake' and early morning start for us here in the Uk which means i never quite feel energised for this race.

 

Nevertheless the tight pack of Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes feels tantalising for this weekend... however I suspect with the harder tires in the range coming out that the Merc will struggle to get temp into them in qualy.

RBR
McLaren
Ferrari
Merc/Aston

 

Would be my guess come qualifying - if it's a straightforward affair. 

 

Happy F1 weekend folks!


Edited by Pingu Pi, 21 September 2023 - 07:25.


#35 Myrvold

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 07:51

Also appreciated your reluctance to allow the Bee thread to be the start...

 

At the same time, that means we lost a beeld-up thread.



#36 Scotracer

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 08:07

It's bad for racing, but HELL YEAH SUZUKA.



#37 JimmyClark

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 08:10

It's been so long since I regularity watched races at a normal time it make me wonder how the hell people get anything done at the w/e.


Being a UKer, having Singapore at 1pm was a treat. I could watch the race and still have most of my Sunday left to achieve things.

And I like 6am races even more - no competition for things to do, can watch without being disturbed, and still have an entire day afterwards.

#38 Anderis

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 09:22

#bringbackfuji

 

*runs away*

I'm very curious how Fuji would go with modern cars.

 

I have fond memories of Fuji. I only saw 2 F1 races there but both were interesting and memorable. Probably the only track that's not on the current calendar that I'm really missing.



#39 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 09:32

I'm very curious how Fuji would go with modern cars.

I have fond memories of Fuji. I only saw 2 F1 races there but both were interesting and memorable. Probably the only track that's not on the current calendar that I'm really missing.


There have only been four, so you’ve not done too badly.

1976, 1977, 2007 and 2008, for those who don’t know.

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#40 Goron3

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 09:39

Being a UKer, having Singapore at 1pm was a treat. I could watch the race and still have most of my Sunday left to achieve things.

And I like 6am races even more - no competition for things to do, can watch without being disturbed, and still have an entire day afterwards.

Same, I used to hate a 6am start but I can't wait for Sunday. Coffee ready for 5:55am, F1, and then an entire day still to go.



#41 southernstars

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 09:40

Yeah, I just don’t understand why anyone wants a wet race. They are awful these days and /or don’t even run.

 

People want them because they think it gives a chance for RB/Max to be neutralised.

 

For me, I'll take a wet race at any track bar Suzuka and Spa. They are beautiful classic tracks. But Spa is dangerous and Suzuka...just takes me back to calling for a red flag for the typhoon rain two laps before Bianchi went into the wall.



#42 Nemo1965

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 11:25

I always thought the same about Zolder being boring until I went there, and drove the track. It's not Spa but much better than people give it credit for. I think people have a downer on Zolder due to Spa and Gilles.

 

I drove around it a lot in the simulator and perhaps it is not boring but... annoying! It is very flat (except the little hill towards the chicane) and one way of another, almost all corners lead to understeer! I never could get a nice rhythm. Just: wait with the throttle, wait with the throttle, wait... wait... and then still you drift towards the outside before it is proper time go there.

 

The Esses at Suzuka also rewards the patient driver, but there the wait with the throttle seems a challenge. You have to hang on the outside much longer than you think is possible and then you throw it in, slowly fading in the loud pedal. Like I said: a challenge, not a tedious torture.



#43 ARTGP

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 11:32

People want them because they think it gives a chance for RB/Max to be neutralised.

For me, I'll take a wet race at any track bar Suzuka and Spa. They are beautiful classic tracks. But Spa is dangerous and Suzuka...just takes me back to calling for a red flag for the typhoon rain two laps before Bianchi went into the wall.

It makes zero sense to think wet races will hurt RB. Imola ‘22, Japan ‘22, Canada ‘22 qualy, Singapore '22, Austria Sprint ‘23, Monaco ‘23, Zandvoort ‘23, Spa ‘23, Canada ‘23 qualy. The gaps are bigger in the wet than the dry.


Edited by ARTGP, 21 September 2023 - 12:32.


#44 SenorSjon

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 12:08

Being a UKer, having Singapore at 1pm was a treat. I could watch the race and still have most of my Sunday left to achieve things.

And I like 6am races even more - no competition for things to do, can watch without being disturbed, and still have an entire day afterwards.

 

14.00 here. Wonderfull. You still had time to do stuff after the race. I keep hating on the 15.00 time for mainland Europe.



#45 Brackets

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 12:38

I drove around [Zolder] a lot in the simulator and perhaps it is not boring but... annoying! It is very flat (except the little hill towards the chicane) and one way of another, almost all corners lead to understeer! I never could get a nice rhythm. Just: wait with the throttle, wait with the throttle, wait... wait... and then still you drift towards the outside before it is proper time go there.

 

You appear to not realize you've described the characteristics of a glorious track. It is supposed to be hard and technical. Now imagine doing Zolder in something with turbo lag.

 

(Zolder ~is~ a bit ruined by the chicanes, mind you)

 

Anyway, thanks for reminding me again that Hugenholtz did NOT design Zandvoort. I have brain damage (only possible explanation I can think of) in the part of my skull where that idea got incorrectly planted, so it simply won't go away. Of course they had to name a corner after him too, which doesnt help.



#46 Nemo1965

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 12:59

Hugenholtz may not have designed Zandvoort but he is probably one of the main instigators that the Netherlands built racing tracks at all after the war. He was almost succesful in getting a track near Zeist, but the Zeitgeist (hah!) was not ripe for it. The Zandvoort-track was actuall partly built in the second world war. Parts of it were meant for transport for German materials, but some Zandvoort rascals (and I think Hugenholtz was one of them) convinced the Germans that they also could build a long stretch of asphalt to nowhere where they could hold military  parades... which explains why the track was already finished shortly after the war, when the Netherlands were still dirt poor...

 

Anyway: Suzuka. Great track. I don't think we ever will have a track again when the cars race under each other for short times! The pits in Abu Dhabi is a weak fascimile. Another unimport thing I would like to add: In the sim I get killed by the AI in the Esses but I always kill them in Spoon... strange stuff.


Edited by Nemo1965, 21 September 2023 - 13:01.


#47 sportyskells

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 13:57

Well just got help with f1 Saturday as I now will be picked up from my brother's house to go to a garden centre (still need to obey the rules at 8.30am)

Edited by sportyskells, 21 September 2023 - 13:57.


#48 Dutchrudder

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 16:19

I’d forgotten about only 12 months ago when Johnny Herbert unilaterally decided that Max was WDC and the sport as a whole just went along with it.

#49 vlado

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 16:28

McLaren is the one to watch here… hopefully no rain

#50 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 21 September 2023 - 16:30

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