29 replies to this topic

[FlyingSaucer]

I am opening this topic as a tool for study and exchange of knowledge on this subject. I searched all over the internet for any discussion that covered all circuits at once, as there is information regarding each circuit separately, but not in a unified place.

 

 

So, I will give a kick-off to the discussion here:

 

For example, I know that Monza and AVUS were pretty damaged during the conflict. Brooklands was also damaged by aerial bombing, in addition to parts of the track being damaged by the British themselves, due to the Hawker factory nearby.

 

Parts of the Le Mans circuit were also victims of collateral damage, as a Renault factory and a Luftwaffe airfield were located close to the circuit.

 

 

Does anyone have more information about these cases or others? Feel free to post what you know here!!!!

 

 

P.S. photos are extremely welcome 

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 29 October 2023 - 17:51.

[LittleChris]

Indirectly Donington since it was used as a storage facility

[Vitesse2]

The bombing of Brooklands was comparatively minor, but to facilitate entry and exit there were two breaches cut in the banking, as well as several buildings being constructed around the course. In a way Brooklands was lucky, in that it was very effectively camouflaged to resemble a housing estate - there were also some similarly shaped reservoirs nearby which confused attacking bombers and on several occasions they actually bombed those; they also hit the adjacent railway line. There are descriptions of several Brooklands raids in a book called 'Raiders Overhead: The Bombing of Walton and Weybridge' by Stephen Flower (Air Research Publications, Walton-on-Thames, 1994). Google Earth has a 1945 or 1946 aerial photograph which is very revealing, as it was taken after the camouflage had been removed; it was discovered that some of the unseasoned poles which had held it up had apparently taken root, which didn't do the surface much good.

 

Part of the Clady public road circuit in Northern Ireland was obliterated by a wartime airfield.

 

As LittleChris says, Donington Park was a military facility. The pits, grandstands and spectator bridges were all wooden constructions and dismantled early in the war and the wood reused elsewhere. The army built a lot of temporary structures and several new roads on the site and apparently kept the circuit itself in a decent state of repair.

 

Crystal Palace was a mess by the end of the war - it had first been used as an internment camp for Axis merchant seamen detained in British ports and then - after Dunkirk - as a refugee camp. From mid-1943 it was a breaker's yard for scrapped government-owned vehicles, so as you might imagine it wasn't exactly pristine when handed back in 1945.

 

As far as I'm aware most of the damage to Monza was caused by the US Army, who used it as a transport depot, as well as for a big victory parade. This is the South African 6th Armoured Division during that parade - General Mark Clark is up on the podium taking the salute.

 

 

Montlhéry was also used by the Americans, although it was already in a bad state of repair when they arrived in 1944. Earlier it had been used as a prison camp for Tsiganes and - before the fall of France - as a training centre for French motorcycle troops.

 

I think I've seen a reference to the Wehrmacht using parts of the Nürburgring for tank testing and - again - the US Army used it in various ways, not least because the local roads were badly damaged and lined with wrecked vehicles. Reputedly quite a lot of documents, photos etc 'went missing' while the US Army were in occupation and several buildings burned down.

[dgs]

I remember talking to Gerry Tyack (hilll climber) and founder of Wellington Musuem in Morton-in-Marsh about the Nurburgring. Gerry a RAF fitter I believe was in Germany near to the circuit at end of World War 2, and asked permission of his commanding officer to visit the circuit. He mentioned to me the the place had been ransacked, but he did say he had managed to salvage a number of items from the offices. He suggested that I could call him and go and view the items, but I never got around to that visit (I believe he died in 2014).

[Geoff E]

 (I believe he died in 2014).

 

Yes https://funeral-noti...e/tyack/3033889

[ktrhe]

Nürburgring:

 

On March 8, 1945, one day later than the capture of the Remagen bridge, American troops drove out a German division command post at "Start und Ziel" (Neu, p. 127) by tank fire and used a section of the race track for the advance with their heavy tracked vehicles and finally took it over completely (Scheuer, p. 50). The Grandstand Hotel suffered severe damage as a result of the subsequent Allied occupation and one of the two administration buildings burned down.

 

Origin Page in German

https://www.rheinisc...11697468#toc-24

 

 

The enemy continued his tank attack the next day (March 8th), drove over the tank barrier near Müllenbach in the morning hours and unexpectedly opened fire with his tank tip at the "start and finish" of the Nürburgring, where (our) divisional command post was located. It succeeded to avoid the divisional command post at the last moment and to withdraw by leaps and bounds via Döttingen - Engeln on Eight. In the evening, the divisional staff received the order, which had arrived from the 15th Army at the 53rd Army Corps, to break through the advanced enemy tank columns to the south and join up with the to win over parts of the 7th Army that were still standing between Driesch and Cochem.

Origin Page in German

https://relaunch.kre.../hjb1997.33.htm

 

M4 Hot Lap

Since they drove on a portion of the Nordschleife, albeit in the wrong direction, it’s only natural to wonder how fast a 33-ton M4 Sherman tank could get around the track. Taking into consideration its 20-mph top speed on level terrain and the topography of the circuit, a well-maintained Sherman should able to lap the 14.2 miles
in… oh… about an hour and 25 minutes. 

By comparison, Alberto Ascari aboard his Ferrari Formula 2 car qualified on the pole for the 1950 German Grand Prix at 10:39.5. Three-time World Champion Niki Lauda holds the Formula 1 lap record at 6:58.6, set when the Austrian was qualifying for the 1975 German Grand Prix. Which means if they started out together, Lauda would lap the Sherman a dozen times while the tank completed one lap.—Bob Roemer

 

 

http://www.11tharmor...nurburgring.htm

[D-Type]

The Mulsanne Straight at Le Mans was used by the Germans and, I think, later by the Allies, as a runway so there would have been some damage to the whole circuit.

[Ray Bell]

Penrith Speedway was commandeered by the Australian Army and used as a base...

 

The one-mile oval partially served as internal roads, but much of it was altered with buildings erected and other roads laid down and the speedway was never able to be used again.

 

On the other hand, Mount Druitt air base, Marsden Park air base, Castlereagh airstrip and the Pitt Town airstrip, all built for use in the war, provided racing venues for some years after the war and were within a short distance of Penrith.

[Lee Nicolle]

Many WW2 aerodromes became Motor Racing circuits. Nearest to me is Mallala which if you look you can still see  military features. Inside turn one is I believe an armoury. The parade ground is at the current start finish line and several other assorted buildings have survived. The drains on the propery are airforce, the toilets behind the start line are internally the same with new outer structures. What was the clubrooms  was only removed [in poor order] in the last 10-12 years for Clem to build his house

The track as many will know is primarily airstrips and taxiways. Originally before its closure the track extended further north into what is now a grain field. When Clem Smith took it over the track now goes on the slightly amended northern hairpin back to the original track.

The original AirForce gate is still there though seldom used, 7or 800 metres from the current main gate.

On Google Earth you can just see the shadow of what was the track. In the past you could see the main runway going further north through the grain paddocks. 75+ years of being ploughed seems to have taken the shadow.

[Ray Bell]

The different aspect of Mallala was that the runways were all grass...

 

And the shortening of the track took place quite early in its life, 1963 or 1964. If I recall it was due to roughness in that section, which was the fastest part of the track.

[LittleChris]

Surely Deauville must have suffered damage given its location just east of the D Day landing sites and South of the port at Le Havre ?

[FlyingSaucer]

There's some info about Brooklands and WW2 here, if anyone's interested: 

 

 

https://www.brooklan...r-1940-air-raid

[Vitesse2]

This article from The Autocar, published, for obvious reasons, immediately after VE Day, describes - in some detail - the alterations which had been made to Brooklands by Vickers. It's a much more realistic assessment than those made by the likes of Bill Boddy (in his Brooklands history and ad nauseam in Motor Sport) and John Bolster (in his autobiography) in later years. WB and others built up a myth about the 'betrayal of Brooklands in 1945' which persists today - close reading of both the specialist and national press of the time tells a very different story and it is pretty obvious that its fate was sealed by at least mid-1943. Cutting a long and complicated story short, if Brooklands' owners had not sold the site to Vickers at the end of 1945, it was 99% certain that the government would have purchased it under new legislation which allowed them to pay only its value at 1939 prices. Cumulative UK inflation between 1939 and 1945 was roughly 50% ...

 

[Vitesse2]

In the May 25th 1945 issue of The Autocar a South African, Corporal J Mulheron, was quoted as having driven round Mellaha (no comments regarding its condition) and also the Pescara circuit. Part of Pescara - the series of downhill curves NE of Capelle - was still mined in places and at some point between Spoltore and Capelle he claimed the road had been "blown" by the retreating Germans. There doesn't seem to be an obvious spot where - or why - that could have happened, so I wonder if he got the location wrong?

[Vitesse2]

Major John Moorey of the RASC - who had been secretary of the Southampton Motor Club before the war and was regularly in touch with The Autocar, especially after he landed in Italy - described a visit he had made to Monza in a letter published in the July 6th 1945 issue of the magazine; the Americans had moved out, leaving parts of the circuit, especially the start/finish straight, in ‘an appalling state’, and a British REME unit was now in residence. Exploring the circuit, he discovered all the boards which had been displayed above the pits during the 1938 Italian Grand Prix, noting ‘22 Nuvolari Auto Union’ and ‘14 Trossi Maserati’, and some of which he admitted he would have purloined had they not been so large. He also spotted, in a locked chicken shed, what he described as two GP Alfa Romeos, one of which – described as ‘a 1939 type’ – was presumably a 312. The other he didn’t immediately recognise, but was likely an example of the seldom-seen 316.

[Vitesse2]

 

 

Parts of the Le Mans circuit were also victims of collateral damage, as a Renault factory and a Luftwaffe airfiled were located close to the circuit.

 

"The Germans destroyed the Le Mans pits and grandstand; our bombers, dealing with a German airfield on the course, made a terrible mess of the road from White House corner to the pits. Apart from this the main offices of the club in Norman and Breton towns are heaps of ruins ..." - 'Casque' (Sammy Davis) in The Autocar, March 15th 1946.

 

I don't have it to hand, but The Motor published photos of what little remained of the grandstand and of the spectator bridge on January 24th 1945.
 

[Vitesse2]

Pictures from that Autocar piece:

 

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Pictures from that Autocar piece:

 

 

 

Thxs a lot for the pics Vitesse. I had no idea that the damage to the circuit had been so extensive.

[Lee Nicolle]

A little off subject but looking at Google Earth for Brooklands there is a race track of some sort in the middle. Karts? Bikes?

Also there is some planes at one end,, 2 twin engined planes one with US markings. What are they. Initially I though DC3 but the tail is all wrong.

One presumes thay had a bridge over the river for the track. A huge undertaking and I can guess how much the place would have warped and bent with age even if an aircraft factory was never built

[Vitesse2]

A little off subject but looking at Google Earth for Brooklands there is a race track of some sort in the middle. Karts? Bikes?

Also there is some planes at one end,, 2 twin engined planes one with US markings. What are they. Initially I though DC3 but the tail is all wrong.

One presumes thay had a bridge over the river for the track. A huge undertaking and I can guess how much the place would have warped and bent with age even if an aircraft factory was never built

The track you can see is part of the Mercedes Benz World facilities, used for demonstrations for prospective buyers. It parallels what remains of the Campbell Circuit - it has been used at least once for a sprint; seeing the Napier-Railton braking for the corner was quite something!

 

The original bridge that was part of the circuit - known as the Hennebique Bridge - collapsed into the River Wey in 1968. Some photos and further stuff here: https://forums.autos...ands-revisited/

 

Can't see anything with US markings among the aircraft - all the outdoor exhibits, apart from Concorde and a BAC One-Eleven, are older Vickers planes. A Varsity, a Viscount, a Viking and a Vanguard. I think the one you mean is the Varsity, which has RAF roundels. Plenty more planes indoors. There was also a Hawker factory on the site.

 

https://www.brooklan.../our-collection

[Macca]

How about Spa Francorchamps? I believe Malmedy was in the heart of the fighting during the Battle of the Bulge.

Paul M

[Lee Nicolle]

The track you can see is part of the Mercedes Benz World facilities, used for demonstrations for prospective buyers. It parallels what remains of the Campbell Circuit - it has been used at least once for a sprint; seeing the Napier-Railton braking for the corner was quite something!

 

The original bridge that was part of the circuit - known as the Hennebique Bridge - collapsed into the River Wey in 1968. Some photos and further stuff here: https://forums.autos...ands-revisited/

 

Can't see anything with US markings among the aircraft - all the outdoor exhibits, apart from Concorde and a BAC One-Eleven, are older Vickers planes. A Varsity, a Viscount, a Viking and a Vanguard. I think the one you mean is the Varsity, which has RAF roundels. Plenty more planes indoors. There was also a Hawker factory on the site.

 

https://www.brooklan.../our-collection

Looking again last night it would appear than again taxiways etc for the airstrip again were again used as a circuit. And thanks for the info, it will go into useless information that does not affect me here in Oz. But knowledge is knowledge.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 31 October 2023 - 02:10.

[FlyingSaucer]

How about Spa Francorchamps? I believe Malmedy was in the heart of the fighting during the Battle of the Bulge.

Paul M

 

Yep. If I´m not mistaken, part of frontline during the battle almost followed the straight between Malmedy and Stavelot. A sinister coincidence, isn´t? 

[LittleChris]

Pretty sure I saw evidence a long time ago that what is now the N622 between Stavelot and Francorchamps was used as a route by tanks rather than the circuit that side 

[Charlieman]

Zandvoort is an interesting circuit in that it comprised German WWII military roads linked by curves built on hardcore from buildings wrecked in the war.

[Lambert007]

Hello

Although I have been a motorsport fanatic since 2006, I learn more and more interesting facts every day.

Yes, I know the Norisring street curcuit was built after the war, but it is worth mentioning that it was built on the site of the Nazi party rally grounds
And the main grandstand had a swastika which was blown up after the war, not sure did that counts.

 

By the way fate of Nürburgring
http://www.11tharmor...nurburgring.htm

[Vitesse2]

In the May 25th 1945 issue of The Autocar a South African, Corporal J Mulheron, was quoted as having driven round Mellaha (no comments regarding its condition) ...

Another letter, same magazine, March 26th 1943, from 'Austin Apprentice', serving in REME, and claiming to actually have been writing from the site, having just read an article about the 1934 race, published several months earlier in a copy 'scrounged ... on this spot'.

 

I have had the privilege of riding round practically the whole course during our chase after Rommel; the road itself was in excellent shape.

[PJGD]

I wonder if by chance that "Austin Apprentice" in REME was Charles Grandfield, later to be Chief Engineer and manager of the Jowett racing team — those factoids including chasing Rommel fit.

[Vitesse2]

"The Germans destroyed the Le Mans pits and grandstand; our bombers, dealing with a German airfield on the course, made a terrible mess of the road from White House corner to the pits. Apart from this the main offices of the club in Norman and Breton towns are heaps of ruins ..." - 'Casque' (Sammy Davis) in The Autocar, March 15th 1946.

Earlier reported remarks by Davis in 'The Sport', The Autocar September 8th 1944. He had been in Le Mans shortly after its liberation and was greeted very warmly by the locals - 'he had his arms nearly shaken off'.

 

 

The course as a whole is "fine", he says, though there are large holes near the White House, and much wreckage of Jerry aircraft was to be seen. The grandstand is wrecked and the pits have gone, but apparently it would not need much work to put them right.

I don't think the photo above bears out that assessment!

[Vitesse2]

Some more impressions of Monza, by HF Ells, who had been The Autocar's correspondent attached to SHAEF during the campaign in northern Europe. In the August 31st 1945 issue he recorded that he had made his way to Italy, visiting Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Maserati, Isotta Fraschini and the RACI. It appears the REME unit mentioned by Moorey was still in residence (although Ells says, presumably wrongly, that it was the RAOC) and that Monza, 'like Donington', was now a reserve vehicle storage and repair depot. The grandstand was doing duty as billets for the troops, as well as offices for their CO. The pit boxes had been taken over as stabling for the horses of an Italian cavalry unit which was guarding the vehicles and stores 'from the ravages of armed black market gentry seeking to remove the extremely valuable trucks or tyres'.

 

Before travelling on to Vienna, where he visited Steyr-Daimler-Puch, he drove round the track in an Army Ford V8 'at a modest 20mph', noting that parts of the track on the straights had been torn up by tanks, although his assessment was that it could be ready for racing 'within a few months'.