1241 replies to this topic

[Muppetmad]

Hadjar got lucky with the safety car situation, but he did a great job with the opportunity he was given. Aron drove well too, although the chop on Antonelli was a bit much. Maloney limited the damage and capitalised on Hauger's mistake. Antonelli did a decent job: it's his first time encountering these sorts of DRS trains and working through people on alternative strategies, and it's a skillset that takes some time to develop. Given where Bearman ended up, it puts into perspective that Prema still aren't entirely at ease with the new car, and Antonelli is making good progress in light of that.

Edited by Muppetmad, 24 March 2024 - 07:57.

[Disgrace]

Just as we felt safe praising Hauger...

[Muppetmad]

Yeah, this has the feeling of Vesti's crash on the reconnaissance lap in Spa (and Pourchaire's crash from the lead in Zandvoort, although in the end that didn't lose him the title). With how competitive the series is, and how much form can fluctuate, unforced errors from positions of overwhelming strength are punished a lot in title battles.

[Frood]

Colapinto disqualified, so Crawford gets the last point. Causes Aron to lose the point for fastest lap as well, since Crawford had it, but was previously out of the points.

[Anja]

Aron looks like the biggest (positive) surprise of the season so far. Who would've thought he'd be second in the standings after three rounds? Completely on merit, too. 

[Disgrace]

Kimi Aronelli, amirite.

[Muppetmad]

Aron is indeed doing a great job.

[TauriJ]

Shame that Aron was taken out yesterday. Was an easy podium for him, but at least it happened at sprint not at feature race.

[Disgrace]

I think Aron made a mistake, causing all those drivers to close together, because he was running ahead of them just prior to that accident.

[Frood]

Aron has been a surprise to me, as well. His speed was good in F3 last year, but he's always had an error or two in him, especially when racing team-mates. He's looked more convincing in F2 than he ever did in F3 or FRECA.

Mind you, it's difficult to judge how Hitech have adapted to the new car, considering the other car would be just as fast with an inanimate object behind the wheel.

[jonpollak]

I cursed Hauger with my glowing comments yesterday.

Also, good job Kush.He can take solace in his racecraft and ignore the bad luck of the predictable random crash timing.
His teammate is digging a big hole for himself though.
Jp

[noikeee]

I certainly did not expect at the beginning of the season, Martins and Bearman to be 18th and 19th in the standings after 3 race weekends.

Ok, Bearman skipped the weekend he'd have started on pole, but still.

[William Hunt]

The title fight is still wide open, everything can still happen. Even Bearman and Martins (2 great drives from the back this weekend) can still mount a title challenge. Some drivers score a big points haul one weekend and nothing the next weekend. It's going to be an exciting season with lots of plot twist. If only F1, with constantly the same pecking order (and the same 5 lower ranked teams behind the same 5 more competitive ones), was as unpredictable as F2.

Edited by William Hunt, 25 March 2024 - 03:26.

[Ben24]

The title fight is still wide open, everything can still happen. Even Bearman and Martins (2 great drives from the back this weekend) can still mount a title challenge. Some drivers score a big points haul one weekend and nothing the next weekend. It's going to be an exciting season with lots of plot twist. If only F1, with constantly the same pecking order (and the same 5 lower ranked teams behind the same 5 more competitive ones), was as unpredictable as F2.

The season is long and I definitely wouldn't write off either of them mounting a title challenge. Neither of them had even close to "great drives from the back" last race though. Neither were actually particularly fast at all when you look at the lap times and the pair finished behind everyone except Cordeel of the runners to start on softs. Bearman made a good start and got a bit unlucky to lose out with poor stop, but by the same token got lucky that several cars that started on the hard got totally screwed by the timing of the safety car.

[Gareth]

Think the SC’s cost Bearman 4 places vs runners on the same strategy as him (2 in the pit lane from the slow stop, 2 from taking advantage of the VSC*) Plus he also got Pepe Matin’ed. He also did a decent salvage job on the Saturday.

He’s basically had 3 race weekends where 1 the team was all at sea, 1 he got pole but did F1 instead, and 1 he screwed up qualifying and was decent in the race. The new car gives a bit more of an excuse too.

It’s still not good enough for a promising guy in his second season, but 3 qualifying sessions in I’m not ready to write him off just yet.

*Poor strategy from Prema there, I thought. Either decision (stay out vs double stack) loses you about the same amount of time from slow lap on worn tyres or slow stop. But stay out gives you a certainty of 1 lap fresher tyres for the remainder of the race, plus a chance of pitting under SC conditions. So stay out seemed a no brainier to me? I guess they were just optimistic as to how well they could execute the double stack?

[messy]

Can't help feeling that circumstances conspiring or not Ollie really needs to get a move on because after his F1 debut and all the positive press generated there, it'll be a bit awkward if he finishes eighth or something in F2 to go along with that. And there's the Antonelli factor to deal with too.

Edited by messy, 25 March 2024 - 08:38.

[Gareth]

Agree with that messy. Very much crunch time for his career I think. Circumstances or no, this is a cruel business and you have to make the most of your opportunity to get to F1 level. Having not looked out of place on debut will help him, but finishing mid-pack in an F2 season (and a second season at that, in a top running team) simply won't be near good enough.

[Muppetmad]

Circumstances didn't help Bearman yesterday, certainly, but he didn't help himself either with the spin. He had a strong start, but I didn't get the sense his race pace was especially strong (but I'm happy to be corrected there). A strange weekend for him for sure.

[Ben24]

Think the SC’s cost Bearman 4 places vs runners on the same strategy as him (2 in the pit lane from the slow stop, 2 from taking advantage of the VSC*) Plus he also got Pepe Matin’ed. He also did a decent salvage job on the Saturday.

He’s basically had 3 race weekends where 1 the team was all at sea, 1 he got pole but did F1 instead, and 1 he screwed up qualifying and was decent in the race. The new car gives a bit more of an excuse too.

It’s still not good enough for a promising guy in his second season, but 3 qualifying sessions in I’m not ready to write him off just yet.

*Poor strategy from Prema there, I thought. Either decision (stay out vs double stack) loses you about the same amount of time from slow lap on worn tyres or slow stop. But stay out gives you a certainty of 1 lap fresher tyres for the remainder of the race, plus a chance of pitting under SC conditions. So stay out seemed a no brainier to me? I guess they were just optimistic as to how well they could execute the double stack?

Yeah Bearman lost track position to a few guys in the pit stops but the pace afterwards was the concern. The pack was compressed again after the safety car and he had 20 laps to make an impression but I don't think he got past anyone on his strategy besides Cordeel. To be honest, some of those 4 that leaped him likely would've finished ahead anyway given his pace. Then there were guys like Maini and Crawford who were out there on significantly older tyres right until the last 2-3 laps yet were still lapping the best part of a second a lap quicker on their way to almost making up an entire pitstop on him. Those guys would've finished way ahead if they weren't screwed over by the SC.

 

As you mentioned, Bearman did have some contact so maybe he picked up some damage which slowed him down. Martins' race pace was more competitive than the previous weekends but he was still nowhere near the pace of the top guys. 

[Muppetmad]

I guess the coming weekends will tell us whether Bearman/Martins are in trouble, or if they've just had unfortunate starts to the year.

[Jellyfishcake]

Good thing for them is they've got a long break to reset now.

No races until Imola in mid May

[KWSN - DSM]

Is Prema really a top team in 2024?

[ensign14]

Agree with that messy. Very much crunch time for his career I think. Circumstances or no, this is a cruel business and you have to make the most of your opportunity to get to F1 level. Having not looked out of place on debut will help him, but finishing mid-pack in an F2 season (and a second season at that, in a top running team) simply won't be near good enough.

 

Does that say more about the failure of F2 as a formula though?  It seems to reward experience more than ability (q.v. Leimer/Palmer).

[Ben24]

Is Prema really a top team in 2024?

Definitely not so far. Not many teams have been consistently quick every weekend so far though. A lot of teams and drivers have been really up and down with their pace so far. Seems like most teams are still struggling to find a good baseline setup for these new cars.

[noikeee]

Yeah feels as if it's all been a bit random. Though it may be because the people that are in front aren't who we expected. So far feels like it's a 5-way fight between Maloney, Aron, Hadjar, Hauger and Maini.

[Myrvold]

Does that say more about the failure of F2 as a formula though?  It seems to reward experience more than ability (q.v. Leimer/Palmer).

 

Isn't that how all series that are spec ends up being? It's quite logical that experience will be important.

However, GP2 in 2013 will probably, in hindsight be one of the years with the lowest quality in the field since GP2 became a thing and up until today. But I think that is more because there were some years where Formula Renault 3.5 were a lot more attractive. It was cheaper, and it was being used by Red Bull for their juniors, and due to that, it became attractive to show off skills in that series.

[SenorSjon]

FR3.5 was killed by the license point system because it got too competitive for GP2 and was drawing away good drivers.

 

Regarding the current day F2. The chocolate Pirellis and the car being notoriously unreliable doesn't help affairs, does it? Heck, F1 cars have anti-stall for decades and yet it still hasn't found a way in F2.

[Myrvold]

FR3.5 was killed by the license point system because it got too competitive for GP2 and was drawing away good drivers.

 

Regarding the current day F2. The chocolate Pirellis and the car being notoriously unreliable doesn't help affairs, does it? Heck, F1 cars have anti-stall for decades and yet it still hasn't found a way in F2.

 

Nah. World Series V8 3.5 still gave good SL points the two years post-Renault. IIRC that's how Louis Deletraz and Pietro Fittipaldi managed to get enough points.

In fact, they even decided to up the SL-points for the series for the 2016 season, even though Renault had announced they would pull the support for the series.

 

I am sure it doesn't help the "randomness" that F2 has a brand new car, and there is quite a few young drivers who probably are trying to find their footing in the series, with the setups etc.

[KWSN - DSM]

FR3.5 was killed by the license point system because it got too competitive for GP2 and was drawing away good drivers.

 

Regarding the current day F2. The chocolate Pirellis and the car being notoriously unreliable doesn't help affairs, does it? Heck, F1 cars have anti-stall for decades and yet it still hasn't found a way in F2.

 

F2 does it right then, best drivers in the world should not stall.

[Gareth]

Is Prema really a top team in 2024?

Not right now but I expect them to be over the course of the season. It’s a new car, so that’s introduced some randomness, but I think the better teams will rise to the top as the season goes on.

We shall see. I could well be wrong of course!

[DS27]

 

No races until Imola in mid May

 

 

I find this ridiculous. Can they borrow some of F1's races as there is far too many of them.

[messy]

Does that say more about the failure of F2 as a formula though?  It seems to reward experience more than ability (q.v. Leimer/Palmer).

So far this year though I don’t think experience is the differentiator, it’s….actually, I’ve got no idea what it is. Why Maini, Aron, Hadjar and Hauger look like the top guys while people like Bearman and Martins, who had it all set up to really do a lot of winning this year, are back in the pack. Maybe the new car has equalised things? Maybe the teams who have got on top of the car the quickest aren’t the teams we expected? The next few weekends will tell us a lot more and it’s great fun.

[Viryfan]

The most crucial moment of season will be the 3 day test session in Barcelona.

Then i think the state of power will be frozen.

I would be tempted to say that Invicta, Campos and Rodin got better tyre life as they lean more on the front tyre while ART Gp and Prema are more leaning towards the rear.

[Muppetmad]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but    

 

https://twitter.com/...376808009310682

 

https://twitter.com/...438097029058911

[Myrvold]

PREMA does look like they are able to combine PR and a bit of fun quite good, and at least slightly genuine.

[Muppetmad]

The drivers are good sports for going along with it too. I'm sure they don't really have a choice in the matter, but none of them look like they're being held hostage either.

[sportyskells]

Why did nobody pit under WSC?

Yoh mean vsc it’s not allowed anymore in f2

[Bleu]

There was a Hockenheim race some years ago where driver pitted on VSC and then it was ruled that the stop wouldn't count as mandatory stop. In the end the driver went for two stops (option-prime-option) and still managed to win. I suppose it was one of the Russian drivers (Sirotkin or Markelov). 

[tyker]

There was a Hockenheim race some years ago where driver pitted on VSC and then it was ruled that the stop wouldn't count as mandatory stop. In the end the driver went for two stops (option-prime-option) and still managed to win. I suppose it was one of the Russian drivers (Sirotkin or Markelov). 

It was Markelov I believe and the stop did count and he won the race, it was after that the rule got changed.

[Viryfan]

There was a Hockenheim race some years ago where driver pitted on VSC and then it was ruled that the stop wouldn't count as mandatory stop. In the end the driver went for two stops (option-prime-option) and still managed to win. I suppose it was one of the Russian drivers (Sirotkin or Markelov).

Sirotkin Hockenheim 2016

[Viryfan]

It was Markelov I believe and the stop did count and he won the race, it was after that the rule got changed.

The Markelov win was Monaco 2016 feature race.

The timing of several VSC's screwed Norman Nato.

[ANF]

Back in 2016, VSC in F2 GP2 saw cars driving the entire lap on the 80 km/h speed limiter, right? I guess that's why they lost so little time by pitting under VSC.

 

Edit: Just to confirm: The current VSC delta/reference minimum time rules were introduced in F2 in 2018. From the 2017 sporting regulations: "An 80km/h speed limit will be imposed on the entire track."

Edited by ANF, 01 April 2024 - 13:59.