384 replies to this topic

[Risil]

Sprint races aren't working! That appears to be the conclusion of the F1 bosses, who are working on numerous (!) ideas to revitalize a format that was never popular in the first place. Autosport has the details -- and Jonathan Noble has a line about how F1 management are "not afraid to be aggressive", which they should put on the T-shirts -- but I have broken them down into a handy poll. But please share your freeform verbal thoughts on the whole matter below.
 
Make the sprints into a standalone championship
It didn't work when the sprints merely set the qualifying order, apparently. Nobody liked it when the sprints contributed to the WDC table and Max (un?)expectedly won the title after a sprint race that he didn't even win. So let's solve the issue by creating a new championship that consists only of sprint races. At some point during the season a sprint champion will be crowned.
 
$$$$
Drivers don't seem to be trying hard enough during the sprint races. Maybe they will if we pay them more money! How does a $1m cash prize sound? Apart from expensive. This will help pay for the massive fines the FIA is now allowed to levy on drivers.
 
Reverse grids
It's the mid-2000s again! Maybe you could encourage drivers to overtake each other by swapping the grid order around so the good drivers start at the back. Perhaps just the top 10, or maybe the entire grid! In Noble's words: "Grid positions for such a sprint could be decided by reverse championship order, or based on a qualifying format that still encouraged teams to push for a good lap time." Can't wait to see the qualifying format! Maybe it could just be the existing qualifying session.
 
Nations Cup

Let's not run any more races but instead divide drivers by nationality and make a separate points table for countries. This will highlight how international Grand Prix racing has gotten. This one may not really be under consideration by F1.

 

https://www.autospor...evamp/10537004/

[Anja]

If we absolutely need to have them, separate championship with different rules (maybe reversed grids, maybe something else - but it has to be something different) is the way to go in my opinion. 

[Skelly1927]

Ladies and gentlemen, gather 'round, for today we stand at the precipice of history. The Grand Cheapening of F1 has descended upon us like a storm, and the very gates of hell have been flung wide open! Behold, as the shadows of change darken the hallowed circuits of Formula 1, threatening to transform this grand spectacle into an unrecognizable farce.

 

Reverse grids, my friends, a notion so absurd it strikes at the very heart of competition and excellence. In this arena of legends, where skill and dedication are revered, we are now to be subjected to a grotesque mockery of true racing. The virtuosos of the track, the masters of speed and precision, will see their prowess diminished, their triumphs diluted.

 

Separate championship tables, another blasphemous concept. In this once-unified pursuit of glory, we shall be divided, our collective spirit fractured. No longer shall we witness the thrilling battle of champions, but rather a disjointed spectacle, a mere shadow of its former self.

 

Prize money, avarice and profit now encroach upon this sacred ground. Have we truly come to this? Will we let the siren call of Mammon desecrate the very essence of Formula 1, turning it into a money-making machine, devoid of soul and character?

 

My fellow enthusiasts, I beseech you! If we do not resist this ignominious descent into mediocrity, we shall be left with no choice but to flee from this madness and seek refuge in more credible forms of motorsport. We must stand together, united in our resolve to defend the honor and tradition of Formula 1. Let the annals of history remember this day as the turning point when we, the faithful custodians of this great championship, refused to yield to the forces of degradation and instead fought for the enduring legacy of Formula 1!

 

In this critical hour, we must rally our spirits and fight for the soul of Formula 1. For in the end, it is not the cheapening, but the unwavering dedication to excellence that defines us. Let us march forward, together, and preserve the grandeur of this sport for generations to come!

[PlatenGlass]

Yeah if we have to have them combine reverse grids with a separate championship and it might be fun. Although the races are a bit short for reversed grids. Maybe random grids then. Go with that.

Or maybe not use main drivers. Give other drivers a go. So it's just a separate thing.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 24 October 2023 - 08:45.

[TauriJ]

Top10 reversed. 

 

And a wild idea...points for every position gained. For example if you start at p10 and finish p1 you get 9 extra points.

[Spillage]

It has to nbe option 5 for me. Just get rid of them. We had an exciting quali in Austin but we knew after the sprint that Verstappen would be quick and that the polesitting Ferrari would be slow. It largely spoiled the actual race.

[katmen]

i love racing not 3 fps that is not racing, i like sprints as they are,

 

but if it needs change make them as a reserve/upcoming drivers championship, to mitigate shortage of seats, use undeveloped cars from start of season to curb costs, give them saturday slot, have friday for regular drivers but only one fpp and straight to q, there are simulators, that excessive testing is not necessary, and drivers would have practice on circuits from sprints in previous year 

Edited by katmen, 24 October 2023 - 08:50.

[Anja]

Top10 reversed. 

 

And a wild idea...points for every position gained. For example if you start at p10 and finish p1 you get 9 extra points.

 

Reversing just part of the grid is awful, I hate it in F2/F3. The difference it makes between qualifying P10 and P11 is just absurd. 

[noikeee]

How about not having Saturday races that nobody wanted in the first place

[Broekschaap]

For my viewing pleasure they can stop with the F1 Sprint thing and add some F2 and F3 races to the calendar.

[Skelly1927]

Apart from being absolutely shamefully embarrassing as well basically spitting on the heritage of the sport, reverse grids will detract from Sunday in a huge way.

They will produce more 'action packed' racing on Saturday. This will then make Sunday feel a bit of a anti-climax. So it will force Sunday's format to eventually change as well. if people think this is off the cards, you'll be sadly mistaken. Nothing is off the table. We have opened the Pandora's Box of never ending 'fixes'. 

Expect points for various stages of the Grand Prix and other gimmicks. The Grand Cheapening is upon us because once you're in the habit of changes to improve the show, then you'll never stop making changes.

Again, it's embarrassing to even be associated with these ideas.

Edited by Skelly1927, 24 October 2023 - 09:00.

[Yoshi]

Top 10 reversed.. why should I go for P1 then during the shootout

Just get rid of it and admit it didn't worked out - thank you.

Edited by Yoshi, 24 October 2023 - 09:02.

[JvsKVB77]

Top10 reversed. 

 

And a wild idea...points for every position gained. For example if you start at p10 and finish p1 you get 9 extra points.

Massive crash infront and you get 5-7 points without any your movement )

 

Best idea for sprints - scrap and forget. 

Edited by JvsKVB77, 24 October 2023 - 09:09.

[P123]

Getting rid of them would be the wisest decision.

 

Reverse grid nonsense would be a gimmick that would wear off fairly quickly (and the additional gimmicks required from that to make drivers actually bother to put in a qualifying lap), as would the distraction of making it a mini-championship.  Who wants to be the champion of that?

 

Interesting though that the controlled F1 press has now been unleashed to campaign against them as being 'boring'.  Broadcast and print.  With a couple of rare exceptions, they always have been boring.  Obviously though there is a desire to tinker some more so the team at FOM can justify some salaries...

[PayasYouRace]

Having them with reversed grids and as a separate championship would be cool and would work without unduly affecting the Grands Prix.

I’ve got an addendum to that. The top 10 of the sprint championship then get proper championship points as if it counted as a single Grand Prix. Sprint champion gets 25 points, second gets 18, etc. I think that could be a good compromise between making them separate from the Grands Prix but having them mean something overall for the season.

[PayasYouRace]

I’d like to add that I like sprint races and I’d like to find a way to keep them, keep them fun and make them fit in.

But, if I was in change I’d probably scrap them because I’d rather keep the fanbase happy than myself.

[Ali623]

Standalone championship is pointless, 99% of the time the WDC will also win the 'Sprint championship' and won't care in the slightest about doing so, making the whole thing farcical.

[SophieB]

There should be a round where they draw lots to drive each other’s cars.

[SophieB]

Also, nicked from radio DJ Danny Baker: Last Lap On Foot

[Goron3]

The good thing about a reversed grid is that more circuits would become suitable for hosting one.

A reverse grid at street circuits like Jeddah, Miami or Australia would be fun to watch.

[SenorSjon]

If they want reverse grids, just watch F2. Gimme my weekend buildup back. 

 

Standalone championship why exactly? There is zero merit in it

$$$$ F1 drivers aren't the poorest breed. And teams will want that money.

Reverse Grids 

Since killing with fire didn't get rid of this idea:

 

Nations cup A1 GP says hi. It died for a reason.

[PayasYouRace]

Where's the fun in that?

Let the fanbase change and come to your (and my) appreciation of the Sprint Races.

"Bow towards me peasants!!1"

It’s more fun to be popular when you’re the boss.

But I’m not in change, so I’ll continue to express my enjoyment for the sprint races (when they’re fun).

[PayasYouRace]

I’ve said this before, but I’d rather have 16 weekend which are all sprint weekends than 24 non-spring weekends. More racing with less demands on my time.

[pdac]

It seems to me that F1 sprint races are just taking the place where other support races should be. It seems there because F1 wants the circuit to themselves for the whole weekend and so they have to provide all of the entertainment. Get rid of them. But if I could only change one thing, it would be to make it a separate championship.

[Beri]

Sprintraces are the worst thing ever to have happened to Grand Prix racing in the history of Grand Prix racing.

 

That being said, I do realize it is here to stay (sadly). So to spice it up:

- Make it a stand alone championship

- Reversed grids in order of championship standings

- Mandate 2 pitstops using all compounds of tires in the Sprint Race (making it a true marathon for drivers doing qualifying laps without having to save on tires)

- No Parc Ferme during an entire Sprint Race weekend

 

And to make it fun:

1 or 2 Sprint Race events are done with Touring Cars. The Mercedes cup during the inauguration of the Nurburgring in 1984 anyone?

[dissident]

How about not having Saturday races that nobody wanted in the first place

That would be too logical.

[Skelly1927]

Sprintraces are the worst thing ever to have happened to Grand Prix racing in the history of Grand Prix racing.

 

That being said, I do realize it is here to stay (sadly). So to spice it up:

- Make it a stand alone championship

- Reversed grids in order of championship standings

- Mandate 2 pitstops using all compounds of tires in the Sprint Race (making it a true marathon for drivers doing qualifying laps without having to save on tires)

- No Parc Ferme during an entire Sprint Race weekend

 

And to make it fun:

1 or 2 Sprint Race events are done with Touring Cars. The Mercedes cup during the inauguration of the Nurburgring in 1984 anyone?

again, when you have a separate championship format you then create a scenario of devaluing the actual World Championship Grand Prix.

The novelty of sprint reverse grids will absolutely detract from the Sunday event. 

This would then force a change to Sunday to make that as equally as 'interesting'. I can't stress how bad reverse grids will be. They will force Sunday's to change to compete with the 'action and chaos' of Saturday

I actually think the worse thing about this is the fact is has given licence to people to come up with endless ideas. F1 should have never opened the door because it creates a 'fix it' culture. No other sport is this dumb. 

Edited by Skelly1927, 24 October 2023 - 09:31.

[TheFish]

Having sprint races in an era of sustainability and making engines and gearboxes last for half a year is stupid to begin with.

 

There is nothing fundamentally different about a sprint race compared to a GP. Once you've seen a sprint race, lots of the intrigue about the GP has gone. Even in situations like this weekend where the Red Bull was much faster in the sprint than the GP, it still took away the anticipation of the race for me.

 

The problem with a sprint championship is unless it's a very close season (2021 for example) then you're just gonna win both. It provides little extra entertainment. I guess I would prefer this option, so I could happily skip them.

[Beri]

again, when you have a separate championship format you then create a scenario of devaluing the actual World Championship Grand Prix.

The novelty of sprint reverse grids will absolutely detract from the Sunday event. 

This would then force a change to Sunday to make that as equally as 'interesting'. I can't stress how bad reverse grids will be. They will force Sunday's to change to compete with the 'action and chaos' of Saturday

I actually think the worse thing about this is the fact is has given licence to people to come up with endless ideas. F1 should have never opened the door because it creates a 'fix it' culture. No other sport is this dumb. 

 

So ditch the Sprint Race all together. On which I agree.

Sadly this isnt the case. So if the Sprint Race is here to stay, it better be something worth watching. Because the way it is now, isnt feasible and it wont do any good for Formula One's reputation in my opinion. Because I get the sense that the nay sayers are gaining ground on the ones supporting the current format of Sprint Races. Hence the possibility that the format might be altered.

[PayasYouRace]

It seems to me that F1 sprint races are just taking the place where other support races should be. It seems there because F1 wants the circuit to themselves for the whole weekend and so they have to provide all of the entertainment. Get rid of them. But if I could only change one thing, it would be to make it a separate championship.

That doesn’t make sense. They’re not taking any more track time over the weekend.

The main support categories are owned by the same people anyway. F2 and F3 are even presented in the same way in the TV coverage.

[Diablobb81]

If they have to keep them then reverse grid. Maybe then a different championship.

[Ellios]

A standalone championship sounds better, additionally many of the circuits have more than one racing configuration so make it different to the main race. Preferably as short length track as possible. Can then introduce wet tracks, mandatory tyre changes, racing blindfolded. 

 

Not a fan of reverse grids. 

[PayasYouRace]

again, when you have a separate championship format you then create a scenario of devaluing the actual World Championship Grand Prix.

This is rubbish. The “value” of the event isn’t a zero sum game.

[Rediscoveryx]

Massive crash infront and you get 5-7 points without any your movement )

Isn’t that the case anyway?

[Beri]

That doesn’t make sense. They’re not taking any more track time over the weekend.

The main support categories are owned by the same people anyway. F2 and F3 are even presented in the same way in the TV coverage.

 

With all the limitations surrounding any Formula One session in terms of closure of the track for inspections and such, F1 does take away more time than having F2 and F3 in that same time slot, if I am not mistaken.

[JvsKVB77]

Isn’t that the case anyway?

No, because you get additional points for every "gained" position. 

[Rediscoveryx]

There should be a round where they draw lots to drive each other’s cars.

They should do this at every sprint race. It would be the main selling point.

[Beri]

No, because you get additional points for every "gained" position. 

 

Which also is the case currently. Or am I misinterpreting you here?

[Rediscoveryx]

No, because you get additional points for every "gained" position.

So… thise positions don’t count as ”gained”?

[PayasYouRace]

With all the limitations surrounding any Formula One session in terms of closure of the track for inspections and such, F1 does take away more time than having F2 and F3 in that same time slot, if I am not mistaken.

My point still stands.

In fact, the current sprint format means there’s less F1 running over the weekend. The sprint shootout and sprint race are both shorter than the practice sessions they replace.

[Rediscoveryx]

My point still stands.

In fact, the current sprint format means there’s less F1 running over the weekend. The sprint shootout and sprint race are both shorter than the practice sessions they replace.

The practice sessions are quite pointless though. Even if you’re visiting the track.

[Timorous]

Make it an actual sprint race. Have the drivers run the race on foot.

[PayasYouRace]

The practice sessions are quite pointless though. Even if you’re visiting the track.

But it torpedoes the idea that the sprints are there to have F1 take over the weekend entirely. If anything it allows for more running of support series.

[JvsKVB77]

Which also is the case currently. Or am I misinterpreting you here?

There was idea to get extra points for every gained position. So started position minus finished position - so much extra points you have+points for finishing position, like in GB3 reverse grid race. So go from 15 to 9 after massive crash now give 0 points. In that system - 6. From 8 to 2 - now give you + 6 points, in that system - + 12. 

Edited by JvsKVB77, 24 October 2023 - 09:52.

[midgrid]

I don't like sprint races and would prefer to see them scrapped, but in a world where they exist, I think a standalone championship is the best option.

[Beri]

My point still stands.

 

In fact, the current sprint format means there’s less F1 running over the weekend. The sprint shootout and sprint race are both shorter than the practice sessions they replace.

 

The only difference being that there is a guaranteed X laps of having all cars on track at that same time (barring retirements and Q dropouts). Instead of having to watch 15 minutes of 1 or 2 cars doing their laps in Practice.

[pdac]

That doesn’t make sense. They’re not taking any more track time over the weekend.

The main support categories are owned by the same people anyway. F2 and F3 are even presented in the same way in the TV coverage.

 

My point is that they've decided that they need something more entertaining than a practice session and instead of adding something else to the schedule, they've decided to make F1 cars provide the entertainment. The problem is that the Sunday F1 race is meant to be the star of the weekend. But it's being devalued because they are racing the exact same cars the day before. I've no issue with them using the same drivers racing different equipment but to just have a mini version of Sunday is just wrong.

[PayasYouRace]

The only difference being that there is a guaranteed X laps of having all cars on track at that same time (barring retirements and Q dropouts). Instead of having to watch 15 minutes of 1 or 2 cars doing their laps in Practice.

And it opens up a bit more time for the support series.

[DW46]

100% with Verstappen on this, gimme 3 practice sessions, quali and a GP.

It’s rubbish going online on a Friday/Saturday trying to remember which quali is for which race, who has what tyres etc. I’m a Now TV viewer and pay by race so it’s Sundays only! 😂

P.S - Medals (just no ditch these too)

[Whatisvalis]

The Enshitification of F1.