893 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Mexico 2023

 

What, again? Already? Never ends, does it. Ah well, the long off-season looms and we’d probably be glad of this if it was happening in February, even if sadly, it’s seemingly produced mostly crappy races since its return to the calendar. I think the stadium section is a wonderful idea, yet in practice it does seem to help destroy any flow. Still, let’s hope, eh?  Also, I did ask ChatGPT to help out here but it produced a preview that was… well, let’s just say the folks who complained about Mexican week on the Great British Bake Off would definitely have had thoughts on it, so you’ve just got me.

 

With the WDC & WCC long wrapped up, there’s really only the matter of whether Hamilton can overtake Perez for P2 (seems less likely after he was disqualified last week for his car’s illegal plank wear) and the runner up places of the WCC which of course do matter hugely because of all the end of year spondulicks to be doled out. Current standings:

 

 

 

In years past, the winning car has been elevated up out of the ground to a podium of its own, which I love, but does make it look a little like the car is a game show prize. Do they do that every year? I forget. I remember it happening most the year that Hamilton won the WDC here but seems like it wouldn’t get much use if that was the criteria they used to deploy it or not. Hey, speaking of that, it’s as well Verstappen isn’t going to be winning the WDC here on Sunday because the boos cascaded down on him in Austin like rain and it’s assumed it will be worse on that score here. Still, whatever. He’s not done anything wrong so it doesn’t make him look bad, it makes them look bad.

 

Weather forecast

 

Mexico is in the news at the moment for a horrendous storm forecast but the forecast for the track is mostly sunny, although a few have forecast a chance of rain.
 

When is it on?

 

UK BST (?) Not sure about this, tbh because the clocks go back in the UK this weekend. Will update if needs be.

 

[PayasYouRace]

Obligatory restore Peraltada post!

[KWSN - DSM]

Obligatory make it rain post!!1

 

[JimmyClark]

Obligatory make it rain post!!1

No chance of that at the weekend it seems.

Though if anybody is a weather nerd (like I am), a cat 5 hurricane just hit Acapulco directly having only been a tropical storm yesterday. Extraordinary stuff. Hope they're ok down there, but it could be one of Mexico's worst natural disasters given the lack of warning.

[PayasYouRace]

The one thing that never seems to make sense to me about this circuit is how, despite taking up essentially the same footprint it always did, they managed to turn what always seemed like an open, flowing circuit into a tight, awkward go kart track. It’s like they somehow shrunk it.

[jcbc3]

Where's my driver kebab??!?

[search]

Though if anybody is a weather nerd (like I am), a cat 5 hurricane just hit Acapulco directly having only been a tropical storm yesterday. Extraordinary stuff. Hope they're ok down there, but it could be one of Mexico's worst natural disasters given the lack of warning.

if it's as bad as it sounds like, it could potentially also influence the race, I guess. Not that Mexico City looks any likely to be affected directly, but would they hold a race if the country is fighting a catastrophic event like this?

[JHSingo]

Woeful track that consistently produces snooze-fests. 

 

I know Perez has denied those rumours about his imminent retirement, but in a way it'd be awfully good if he did - so we could hopefully lose this race from the calendar ASAP. 

[JimmyClark]

if it's as bad as it sounds like, it could potentially also influence the race, I guess. Not that Mexico City looks any likely to be affected directly, but would they hold a race if the country is fighting a catastrophic event like this?

It's a big country, I'm sure the race isn't diverting any emergency services. Expect a minutes silence though if there have been deaths.

[PayasYouRace]

Where's my driver kebab??!?

That will never not sound gross.

[JimmyClark]

The one thing that never seems to make sense to me about this circuit is how, despite taking up essentially the same footprint it always did, they managed to turn what always seemed like an open, flowing circuit into a tight, awkward go kart track. It’s like they somehow shrunk it.

 

Yes, it does annoy me at how they seem to have ruined *every* corner in the redesign. The esses are criminal, the first corner was even unnecessarily turned into a sharp angle, and obviously there's the Peraltada... OK maybe they did need to slow it down given modern constraints, but that awful baseball section is just horrid to see cars in, as atmospheric as it is. Personally I'd rather they had just put a chicane just before or halfway through the Peraltada and left the curve as it is, and bypassed the stadium altogether. 

[PayasYouRace]

Yes, it does annoy me at how they seem to have ruined *every* corner in the redesign. The esses are criminal, the first corner was even unnecessarily turned into a sharp angle, and obviously there's the Peraltada... OK maybe they did need to slow it down given modern constraints, but that awful baseball section is just horrid to see cars in, as atmospheric as it is. Personally I'd rather they had just put a chicane just before or halfway through the Peraltada and left the curve as it is, and bypassed the stadium altogether.

Check out the Champ Car races from 2002-2007. They had both a simpler corner in the stadium, and then tried a chicane prior to the full corner in the last couple of years.

I remember the latter chicane being awkward, but their stadium solution worked a lot better than the hairpin switchback F1 chose to add. It was just a left hander linking the entrance and exit of the stadium.

[JimmyClark]

Check out the Champ Car races from 2002-2007. They had both a simpler corner in the stadium, and then tried a chicane prior to the full corner in the last couple of years.

I remember the latter chicane being awkward, but their stadium solution worked a lot better than the hairpin switchback F1 chose to add. It was just a left hander linking the entrance and exit of the stadium.

 

Ah yes I remember now - I remember it being sacrilege at the time, but indeed it is a much preferable solution to what is there now.

[PayasYouRace]

Ah yes I remember now - I remember it being sacrilege at the time, but indeed it is a much preferable solution to what is there now.

If they had maybe built the stadium at the other end of the oval, there might be a bit more room to have saved the Peraltada as a full corner. SAFER type barrier would be helpful. Wouldn’t be very different to the Indy road course, or the final corner at Zandvoort, or even the Parabolica. But there’s no sight lines either.

[SophieB]

Where's my driver kebab??!?

Here you go:

 

[Muppetmad]

Has there been a good race here since it returned to the calendar? I can recall various bits of lap 1 mayhem, but then the field gets strung out and nothing really happens.

[southernstars]

This one is at such a bad time for Aussies that it rotates full circle and becomes an okay, if not quite good time. Quali at 8am Sunday, race at 7am Monday, so the issue becomes "will it finish before I have to log on for work?"

[SophieB]

This one is at such a bad time for Aussies that it rotates full circle and becomes an okay, if not quite good time. Quali at 8am Sunday, race at 7am Monday, so the issue becomes "will it finish before I have to log on for work?"

Haha, that’s brutal. Was thinking ‘7 AM? Perfect’ until I got to the part about it being on Monday morning.

[JimmyClark]

Has there been a good race here since it returned to the calendar? I can recall various bits of lap 1 mayhem, but then the field gets strung out and nothing really happens.

 

Apart from the year Seb lost the plot a bit, I really don't remember much about races here. 

[Aaaarrgghh]

Apart from the year Seb lost the plot a bit, I really don't remember much about races here. 

Luckily, the crowd and atmosphere make up for it.

[LolaB0860]

Has there been a good race here since it returned to the calendar?

No

Edited by LolaB0860, 25 October 2023 - 10:28.

[SophieB]

Apart from the year Seb lost the plot a bit, I really don't remember much about races here. 

What was that? 
 

my Modern Mexico Memories are:

 

Lewis outrageously cutting the grass at the start one year.

 

Lewis scrapping mightily to get past Fernando for something like eighth or ninth place to win the WDC and when he eventually did, knocking off a winglet or something, Alonso getting on the radio to complain but being soothed by his own engineer who told him how it was such awesome and exciting racing. Alonso practically purred happily. Always wondered how much it was simply an honest and truthful response and how much it was quick thinking to keep Macca out of a pointless squabble that might have delayed the WDC celebrations for their former driver. 

[IrvTheSwerve]

Yay, more F1. Probably my least favourite on the calendar, for some reason.

 

At least it’s not a Sprint.

[LolaB0860]

Yay, more F1. Probably my least favourite on the calendar, for some reason.

At least it’s not a Sprint.

Yeah other than the four Middle-East races this is definitely my least favourite. It's also round 76 of the championship which doesn't help

Edited by LolaB0860, 25 October 2023 - 10:38.

[EvilPhil II]

I have a strong feeling we are about to see an incredible result from Valtteri Bottas this weekend. Top 6 finish. 

[Skelly1927]

[PayasYouRace]

I have a strong feeling we are about to see an incredible result from Valtteri Bottas this weekend. Top 6 finish.

Is he replacing Checo at Red Bull?

[EvilPhil II]

Is he replacing Checo at Red Bull?

 

That would be top 10

[Clatter]

Has there been a good race here since it returned to the calendar? I can recall various bits of lap 1 mayhem, but then the field gets strung out and nothing really happens.

 

Even if it was a good race, the TV director would do his best to miss all the action.

[Anderis]

Here you go:

 

Wow, if Perez has a couple of bad races for the remainder of the season, Verstappen could end up with twice the points of the 2nd driver in WDC.

 

Nobody has come even close to that since they had dropped the 10-6-4-3-2-1 points system.

Edited by Anderis, 25 October 2023 - 11:24.

[1player]

Reminder for those that never know what time the race is: https://f1calendar.com — all times are local to you. Stick it in your iPhone calendar, set an alert 30 minutes before each sessions, and Robert's your uncle.

 

(Not affiliated, but I use their service constantly)

Edited by 1player, 25 October 2023 - 11:26.

[Risil]

Cool, Mexico!

[JimmyClark]

What was that? 

 

This one from 2016 I think

 

[southernstars]

Haha, that’s brutal. Was thinking ‘7 AM? Perfect’ until I got to the part about it being on Monday morning.

 

Yep. There's a very good reason that Monday is a fixed WFH day for me.

 

Brazil will be the really lethal one. Quali 5am Saturday, Sprint Quali 1am Sunday, Sprint race 5:30am Sunday, race 4am Monday. The Americas races are tough slogs.

 

Apart from the year Seb lost the plot a bit, I really don't remember much about races here. 

 

Danny Ric turning on a bit of the ol' Danny magic last year and speeding through the field was pretty fun.

 

Luckily, the crowd and atmosphere make up for it.

 

I dunno, all I remember last year is that the drivers all needed security in the paddock because of how crowded it was to the point of unsafety, and the crowd booing anyone who wasn't Perez at the podium.

[alframsey]

I enjoyed the USGP and hope it carries over and we get a decent race but I don’t reckon we will, terrible track.

[Beri]

and the crowd booing anyone who wasn't Perez at the podium.

 

Yep, most Mexican fans are the worst. Only looking at Perez and thats it. Anyone else gets boo-ed. But that is another discussion.

[1player]

Any chance the hurricane in Acapulco might affect Mexico City? They seem "relatively close" on a map, but I don't know how far inland hurricanes go

[Ruusperi]

Yeah, I won't miss the track once Perez retires and there's no monetary reason to keep it on the calendar. It has only produced a snoozer after snoozer. Free alternative for Valium.

 

If only they hadn't allowed Tilke to butcher the track for 2015 but instead had renovated the old layout (with modern safety barriers etc.). It could be on par with Suzuka and Zandvoort in terms of challenge factor.

 

[SophieB]

What was that? 
 

my Modern Mexico Memories are:

 

Lewis outrageously cutting the grass at the start one year.

 

Lewis scrapping mightily to get past Fernando for something like eighth or ninth place to win the WDC and when he eventually did, knocking off a winglet or something, Alonso getting on the radio to complain but being soothed by his own engineer who told him how it was such awesome and exciting racing. Alonso practically purred happily. Always wondered how much it was simply an honest and truthful response and how much it was quick thinking to keep Macca out of a pointless squabble that might have delayed the WDC celebrations for their former driver. 

Here it is, that only other exciting bit of racing in the modern Mexico gp: Hamilton vs Alonso battling over ninth place like their lives depended on it.

 

https://x.com/f1/sta...3835810156?s=61

 

Terrific stuff.

[LolaB0860]

Even if Perez bails out, the circuit already has contract for 2024 and 2025, unfortunately 

 

Last year they at least had this fun-sounding "Legends Cup" support race with CART/Champcar drivers in it (even though there was no real coverage of it)

https://www.racefans...-at-mexican-gp/

But even that's not been retained for this year

Edited by LolaB0860, 25 October 2023 - 16:21.

[ARTGP]

Yeah, I won't miss the track once Perez retires and there's no monetary reason to keep it on the calendar. It has only produced a snoozer after snoozer. Free alternative for Valium.

 

If only they hadn't allowed Tilke to butcher the track for 2015 but instead had renovated the old layout (with modern safety barriers etc.). It could be on par with Suzuka and Zandvoort in terms of challenge factor.

 

Those tombstones would solve many track limit issues...

[AustinF1]

Yeah, I won't miss the track once Perez retires and there's no monetary reason to keep it on the calendar. It has only produced a snoozer after snoozer. Free alternative for Valium.

 

If only they hadn't allowed Tilke to butcher the track for 2015 but instead had renovated the old layout (with modern safety barriers etc.). It could be on par with Suzuka and Zandvoort in terms of challenge factor.

'Allowed' Tilke to butcher the track? The FIA is the one that wouldn't allow the use of the full Peraltada. They also forced the changes to the esses.

 

Re: the monetary reasons to keep it on the calendar ... of course there's a monetary reason. The reason F1 keeps COTA, Mexico City and most other races on the calendar is to make money - from the sanctioning fees and more. Now if FOM can improve their bottom line by dropping that race, then that changes everything. Apparently that hasn't happened though.

Edited by AustinF1, 25 October 2023 - 16:32.

[PayasYouRace]

'Allowed' Tilke to butcher the track? The FIA is the one that wouldn't allow the use of the full Peraltada. They also forced the changes to the esses.

The FIA didn’t design the track. They have regulations and guidelines for track design. Herr Tilke, with his lack of imagination, butchered the layout. Zandvoort proves that with a bit of cleverness and imagination, you can still meet FIA requirements without compromising on good circuit characteristics.

[AustinF1]

The FIA did tell them they couldn't use the Peraltada as it was, and they told them that the esses had to be changed. I'm no particular Tilke fan, and we can always argue that the result isn't what we want, but I'm not sure what he could have done that would have been appreciably better given the FIA runoff requirements and the constraints within the park. My point was that Tilke did not just butcher the track on a whim. He was forced to make changes by the FIA constraints.

[PayasYouRace]

The FIA did tell them they couldn't use the Peraltada as it was, and they told them that the esses had to be changed. I'm no particular Tilke fan, and we can always argue that the result isn't what we want, but I'm not sure what he could have done that would have been appreciably better given the FIA runoff requirements and the constraints within the park. My point was that Tilke did not just butcher the track on a whim. He was forced to make changes by the FIA constraints.

See the way Suzuka increased the runoff at their esses about twenty years ago to see how well it can be done. Many fans either never noticed or have probably forgotten because the result was so sympathetic to the original layout.

 

Peraltada might have been a tougher job, but Tilke still went for the worst possible layout in the Foro Sol. It’s bad. No amount of blaming the FIA will change that.

[H0R]

 

 

Bloody hell, do they really STILL recycle the old GPL tracks? As awesome as they were in their time I'd really expect modders to create new track maps in the mean time. Lazy bastards.

[RekF1]

Mexico 2023

 
What, again? Already? Never ends, does it.

Why do you sound like Brenda from Bristol in my head?

[SophieB]

Why do you sound like Brenda from Bristol in my head?

 

Not a million miles away IRL either.

[LolaB0860]

Remember that next week, there's also another GP. And another sprint weekend. Excited yet?

[aportinga]

Apart from the year Seb lost the plot a bit, I really don't remember much about races here. 

 

All I remember is Mansell and Berger 1990.

 

Very much worth the watch. Funs starts at 9:42 in.

 

Edited by aportinga, 25 October 2023 - 19:39.