154 replies to this topic

[speedx]

New rumour:



BREAKING NEWS: According to Japanese media, TOYOTA GAZOO Racing is set to take over Audi Sport's shares in Sauber F1!

Toyota GR has been driving very successfully in the FIA WEC and the WRC - FIA World Rally Championship for years. Under the leadership of ex-Formula 1 driver Kamui Kobayashi as team boss, there will now be a racing team in the premier class again.

The takeover will take place together with McLaren, which will purchase its engines from Toyota from 2026.

In addition to Kobayashi as team boss, Ryo Hirakawa is also scheduled as a driver. The 29-year-old Japanese, who is already WEC world champion, Le Mans winner, Super GT champion and two-time SUPER FORMULA runner-up, was accepted into the McLaren Driver Development Program a few weeks ago.

14 days ago Hirakawa tested a 2021 MCL35M in Barcelona.

Toyota competed in Formula 1 with its own works team from 2002 to 2009. Despite having the highest budget of all racing teams, they were unable to win a Grand Prix.

The best result was P4 for the constructors in the 2005 season when Jarno Trulli and Ralf Schumacher took P2 twice and P3 three times, as well as a pole.

[KWSN - DSM]

And Alonso is already a Toyota Driver, or at least were.

[macjim]

New rumour:



BREAKING NEWS: According to Japanese media, TOYOTA GAZOO Racing is set to take over Audi Sport's shares in Sauber F1!

Toyota GR has been driving very successfully in the FIA WEC and the WRC - FIA World Rally Championship for years. Under the leadership of ex-Formula 1 driver Kamui Kobayashi as team boss, there will now be a racing team in the premier class again.

The takeover will take place together with McLaren, which will purchase its engines from Toyota from 2026.

In addition to Kobayashi as team boss, Ryo Hirakawa is also scheduled as a driver. The 29-year-old Japanese, who is already WEC world champion, Le Mans winner, Super GT champion and two-time SUPER FORMULA runner-up, was accepted into the McLaren Driver Development Program a few weeks ago.

14 days ago Hirakawa tested a 2021 MCL35M in Barcelona.

Toyota competed in Formula 1 with its own works team from 2002 to 2009. Despite having the highest budget of all racing teams, they were unable to win a Grand Prix.

The best result was P4 for the constructors in the 2005 season when Jarno Trulli and Ralf Schumacher took P2 twice and P3 three times, as well as a pole.

 

 

We've went from Audi buying McLaren to McLaren buying up their shares in Sauber -  Beggars belief. 

 

I can't honestly see what's in it for McLaren, after all we had to borrow $150M only a few years ago and flog the MTC, Maybe potential works engines but we'd still be a customer of Toyota  - who would get first call on engine decisions.

[midgrid]

I suppose it could be a deal whereby McLaren gets the works Toyota engine and Sauber becomes the formal/informal B-/junior team (Gazoo Racing?), i.e. Toyota would just be an engine supplier rather than a full factory entrant. 

[Widefoot2]

I suppose it could be a deal whereby McLaren gets the works Toyota engine and Sauber becomes the formal/informal B-/junior team (Gazoo Racing?), i.e. Toyota would just be an engine supplier rather than a full factory entrant. 

 

Could work, but I'm with those a little confused why a manufacturer would come in with the billion-plus $/£ cost of starting a new IC engine program when it does seem likely that market is drawing to a close.

[taran]

Could work, but I'm with those a little confused why a manufacturer would come in with the billion-plus $/£ cost of starting a new IC engine program when it does seem likely that market is drawing to a close.

Actually, Toyota's boss has gone on record that he doesn't believe EV is the (only) answer and Toyota is developing other options too. That includes hydrogen and ICE because they think the entire world will not be able to shift to EV's or it might be impracticable in some regions.

 

https://fortune.com/...ings-elon-musk/

 

https://www.drive.co...electric-power/

 

https://www.theguard...-cynical-attack

Edited by taran, 31 October 2023 - 17:27.

[KWSN - DSM]

We've went from Audi buying McLaren to McLaren buying up their shares in Sauber -  Beggars belief. 

 

I can't honestly see what's in it for McLaren, after all we had to borrow $150M only a few years ago and flog the MTC, Maybe potential works engines but we'd still be a customer of Toyota  - who would get first call on engine decisions.

 

Andretti giving them $20 million as their entry fee, it's right there in the Concorde Agreement - another $25 million from Palou.

[KWSN - DSM]

Actually, Toyota's boss has gone on record that he doesn't believe EV is the (only) answer and Toyota is developing other options too. That includes hydrogen and ICE because they think the entire world will not be able to shift to EV's or it might be impracticable in some regions.

 

https://fortune.com/...ings-elon-musk/

 

https://www.drive.co...electric-power/

 

https://www.theguard...-cynical-attack

 

Don't tell TennisUK.

[loki]

Gazoo?  I love that guy…

 

[kumo7]

New rumour:



BREAKING NEWS: According to Japanese media, TOYOTA GAZOO Racing is set to take over Audi Sport's shares in Sauber F1!

Toyota GR has been driving very successfully in the FIA WEC and the WRC - FIA World Rally Championship for years. Under the leadership of ex-Formula 1 driver Kamui Kobayashi as team boss, there will now be a racing team in the premier class again.

The takeover will take place together with McLaren, which will purchase its engines from Toyota from 2026.

In addition to Kobayashi as team boss, Ryo Hirakawa is also scheduled as a driver. The 29-year-old Japanese, who is already WEC world champion, Le Mans winner, Super GT champion and two-time SUPER FORMULA runner-up, was accepted into the McLaren Driver Development Program a few weeks ago.

14 days ago Hirakawa tested a 2021 MCL35M in Barcelona.

Toyota competed in Formula 1 with its own works team from 2002 to 2009. Despite having the highest budget of all racing teams, they were unable to win a Grand Prix.

The best result was P4 for the constructors in the 2005 season when Jarno Trulli and Ralf Schumacher took P2 twice and P3 three times, as well as a pole.

Source?

There are lots of F1 fans who think that Toyota will be back. But do far these many stories were all denied in a way we saw when Hayakawa was signed by McLaren. Perhaps now, there is another source of rumors who wants to reduce its business risks by involving Toyota into this mess? It is not very logical, IMHO, for Toyota to go with Sauber when they have own racing division in Germany. It operated the last F1 bid and, the current WRC.

[flatlandsman]

Toyota I can understand going into f1 more than Audi they have unfinished business and they have won all there is to win in WEC and now the competition is going to get harder they are going to run away to f1.

[PayasYouRace]

This is outrageous enough to deserve it’s own thread.

[AustinF1]

Source?

There are lots of F1 fans who think that Toyota will be back. But do far these many stories were all denied in a way we saw when Hayakawa was signed by McLaren. Perhaps now, there is another source of rumors who wants to reduce its business risks by involving Toyota into this mess? It is not very logical, IMHO, for Toyota to go with Sauber when they have own racing division in Germany. It operated the last F1 bid and, the current WRC.

I dunno the source here, but I did see this same rumor yesterday morning, posted by a well-respected poster with knowledge of and contacts in the automotive industry. Who knows ...

 

Would love to know where it originated though.

Edited by AustinF1, 31 October 2023 - 21:10.

[dissident]

what

[FLB]

I dunno the source here, but I did see this same rumor yesterday morning, posted by a well-respected poster with knowledge of and contacts in the automotive industry. Who knows ...

 

Would love to know where it originated though.

Same.

 

 

But there were rumours back in June that the BoP kerfuffle at Le Mans had angered Toyota enough to make it reconsider its future in the FIA WEC.

[H0R]

Is there any source for this rumour except of the opening post?

[FirstnameLastname]

Is there any source for this rumour except of the opening post?

Someone was mucking around on Twitter adding to the alleged ‘paddock rumour’ and came up with this one.

[FLB]

Is there any source for this rumour except of the opening post?

There was this in September: McLaren forging closer ties with Toyota as F1 rumours swirl (motorsport.com)

 

This was Kamui Kobayashi at the Japanese Grand-Prix. It was a No then, but if a new opportunity has presented itself (i.e. Sauber/Audi not happening)...

 

 

“For now, it's clearly no," he said when asked by Motorsport.com about Toyota's interest in F1. "This deal is really purely focusing on a driver, supporting a driver's dream. 

"At the moment, it really has nothing to do with that. I know, of course, you can think about it, and there are a lot of rumours.  

“But I can clearly say that it's no, and nothing to do with it. For the future, we never know." 

Edited by FLB, 31 October 2023 - 21:22.

[kumo7]

I dunno the source here, but I did see this same rumor yesterday morning, posted by a well-respected poster with knowledge of and contacts in the automotive industry. Who knows ...

Would love to know where it originated though.

No surprise that a source is from US or Canada, as one of the post identifying the new control on AUDI taken by an American/Canadian AUDI representative after its restructuring.
So, the rumor can have still the identical plot. To rid AUDI of its contractural responsibility it owes to Sauber F1, in order for them to concentrate AUDI for new direction after restructuring, after the company defined its direction. The plot says Toyota is an easy target for AUDI, to fortify Toyota with the rumors that it joins F1, to force Toyota to replace its role.

Like I said, this does make very little sense from Toyora, because if it wants to join with full works team, it has German base. If it wants to join as PU supplier it has other teams, which are more successful. Putting up new own outfit may reduce its chance to power such racing team that want works deal.

So, I say this is a fake news.

Edited by kumo7, 31 October 2023 - 21:26.

[ANF]

New rumour:

BREAKING NEWS: According to Japanese media

What Japanese media?

[H0R]

It is not even on Reddit which is probably the worst cesspool in regards to rumours. 

 

BREAKING NEWS: Nigerian media reports that Lando Norris is pregnant.

 

Just as likely.

[kumo7]

Same.


But there were rumours back in June that the BoP kerfuffle at Le Mans had angered Toyota enough to make it reconsider its future in the FIA WEC.

Precisely. It is the new CEO, as well. But, denied the rumor in October. He said F1 does not operates in such a manner. But he told the journal that such a question is better suited for fun talks rather than a serious press interview.

[balmybaldwin]

[Silverstone96]

I’m calling bull on this…

[Nobody]

Maybe Toyota smell blood in the water and are asking the question, which then turns into "its a done deal"

[Risil]

I love this rumour!

[danmills]

This needs the dude with the slow blink meme.

[Anja]

I like a good rumour but this one seems like randomly made up by someone, no actual sources whatsoever.

[kumo7]

Do we have our new Xmas present ready?

[Risil]

I like a good rumour but this one seems like randomly made up by someone, no actual sources whatsoever.

The thread title says RUMOUR at the beginning, that's a kind of source

[AustinF1]

I love this rumour!

[krapmeister]

TBF F1's current engine regs would fit better with Toyota than most other manufacturers, due to their belief in hybrids forming a core part of their model range now and into the future.

I don't really see what is in it for Mclaren though to be partnering up with them - seems an expensive way to get a new and unproven engine supplier?

Edited by krapmeister, 31 October 2023 - 22:06.

[FirstnameLastname]

This was where it originated:

https://x.com/fifthg...jNzYI1wHgQ5OZzw

The guy just spits random **** to get impressions on Twitter. Folk bite.

[ANF]

I don't know a single letter of Japanese, but that didn't stop me from googling in Japanese by copying the words Toyota, Audi and Formula 1 from the Japanese Wikipedia.

 

Here's what I found:

• A Japanese Twitter user quoting the rumour (see below) and calling it nothing but a fantasy: https://twitter.com/...121333387428010
• The quoted tweet is in English and was posted yesterday by some random Twitter user who registered last year: https://twitter.com/...984850668138722
• My Japanese Google search also returned this blog post on French L'Auto-Journal, posted today. It refers to, but doesn't quote, "Japanese media": https://f1i.autojour...ete-par-toyota/
• And maybe there's something of interest in this article, posted 20 hours ago, but it won't load from IP addresses in the European Union? https://news.yahoo.c...2d690fd2d691906

Edited by ANF, 31 October 2023 - 22:24.

[speedx]

I also think it will not happen.

Toyota has all infrastructure at Cologne. They would not need another one in Hinwil.
And Finn Rausing would sell only if the new buyer keeps F1 Team in Hinwil. I think that was the condition for a contract with Audi.

I've read the news on formelaustria.at

I heard on one Podcast that Audi wanted a meeting with Finn Rausing. They met few weeks ago.

There is smoke for sure, but will it really happen? Who knows....

[OvDrone]

I have zero trust in Audi right now, given their past actions in all series they partook in - from WEC to GTs to TCR to FE to DTM to F1 now. This is a brand run by boardroom executives that are too fiscally conservative for their own good. Not Racers.

 

Toyota Gazoo have proven their metal, in WRC, in WEC, in BTCC, in Nascar ( not Gazoo but still ) - they are serious and are now Racers to their core. 

This is a great RUMOUR to witness and hope it lands. 

[kumo7]

This was where it originated:

https://x.com/fifthg...jNzYI1wHgQ5OZzw

The guy just spits random **** to get impressions on Twitter. Folk bite.

Just 43 words twittering post making pages of discussion could only mean that this could either be a harassment to Toyota or truth concerning AUDI…

[Marklar]

I saw this earlier today on twitter and scrolled past it because clearly this was fake news (just like about everything on twitter since Albert Fabrega decided to act like a teenager)

 

I don't know a single letter of Japanese, but that didn't stop me from googling in Japanese by copying the words Toyota, Audi and Formula 1 from the Japanese Wikipedia.

 

Here's what I found:

• A Japanese Twitter user quoting the rumour (see below) and calling it nothing but a fantasy: https://twitter.com/...121333387428010
• The quoted tweet is in English and was posted yesterday by some random Twitter user who registered last year: https://twitter.com/...984850668138722
• My Japanese Google search also returned this blog post on French L'Auto-Journal, posted today. It refers to, but doesn't quote, "Japanese media": https://f1i.autojour...ete-par-toyota/
• And maybe there's something of interest in this article, posted 20 hours ago, but it won't load from IP addresses in the European Union? https://news.yahoo.c...2d690fd2d691906

 

the link you cant access is a blog post that basically goes like "why I think Toyota should enter F1, 10 reasons"

[GuilhermeMach]

I have zero trust in Audi right now, given their past actions in all series they partook in - from WEC to GTs to TCR to FE to DTM to F1 now. This is a brand run by boardroom executives that are too fiscally conservative for their own good. Not Racers.

 

This is exactly the reason why I never understood why anyone thinks VAG's involvement in F1 is a good thing. They have spend more than a decade feeding rumours about entering, but only on their conditions, which is exactly how we ended up with the 2026 engine regulations.

[kumo7]

I saw this earlier today on twitter and scrolled past it because clearly this was fake news (just like about everything on twitter since Albert Fabrega decided to act like a teenager)

the link you cant access is a blog post that basically goes like "why I think Toyota should enter F1, 10 reasons"

 

There are lots and lots of japanese websites that rumors the come back. Interestingly, if you look into them nearly all of them end its article with, "Toyota denied this rumor".

[eibyyz]

It is not even on Reddit which is probably the worst cesspool in regards to rumours. 

 

BREAKING NEWS: Nigerian media reports that Lando Norris is pregnant.

 

Just as likely.

 

Dalton Kellett to repllace Sergio Perez.

[Nobody]

Dalton Kellett to repllace Sergio Perez.

 

I read it was Mika coming back off sabbatical

[GreenMachine]

I read it was Mika coming back off sabbatical

 

Almost.  Actually Norris is going to RB to replace Perez, and Mika is going to sub for Norris at McLaren until they can get someone for '25 ...

 

This has to be the silliest silly season since '65, when the silliest rumour was Black Jack was going to run an American V8 in the new 3l formula starting '66    ... oh wait ...

[FirstnameLastname]

Hamilton buys Aston Martin - now Alonsos boss:

https://x.com/_henry...jNzYI1wHgQ5OZzw

Same substance as the Toyota ‘rumours’

[Wuzak]

It's funny that people think that a manufacturer can just start a PU project and be on the grid.

 

PU manufacturers for post 2026 need to have signed up already if they want to supply PUs in 2026 or 2027.

 

The earliest a PU supplier can enter now is 2028.

 

Unless Toyota buys the project from Audi. 

 

I'm not sure Toyota would do that, nor how it works with the PU supply rules and budget cap.

[Baddoer]

Oh noes, here we go again.

[kumo7]

AUDI will never come into F1. 

Now AUDI is blaming TOYOTA for its failure to join the track. This story is the most disappointing development for the F1 under current ownership.

It has been doing well, but Toyota is coming in if it were to come in, in an other ways.

 

I say it is AUDI who wants to SELL its stake to someone.

Sad and terrible act by the VAG AUDI car maker.

It keeps on hiding its identity when it comes to an escaping end.  

[YamahaV10]

This makes sense. Because Toyota is an electric vehicle skeptic and believes a revert to hybrids is in the future.

[YamahaV10]

This is exactly the reason why I never understood why anyone thinks VAG's involvement in F1 is a good thing. They have spend more than a decade feeding rumours about entering, but only on their conditions, which is exactly how we ended up with the 2026 engine regulations.

These manufacturers are pushing for complicated and expensive engines. Then they will leave when it gets too costly. They are doing the same thing in Indycar. The push for hybrid was from the mfgr.

Audi is too far into the process to just bug out now isn't it ?

[CoolBreeze]

Please no. They will be there for a few seasons, screw it all up with their red tape decision making process, then pack

up and leave.