57 replies to this topic

[Wuzak]

https://www.auto-mot...technik-bilder/

 

 

https://twitter.com/...on^s1_&ref_url=

 

If they narrow the floor, lose the front wing footplates and ditch the front wheel deflector then we are starting to look decent.

[Stephane]

Active aero ?

[JL14]

Will need a little bit of getting used to. The nose looks real short in comparison to the rear.

Looks like the -20cm wheelbase has all been taken out of the nose?

Edited by JL14, 15 November 2023 - 13:40.

[Wuzak]

Will need a little bit of getting used to. The nose looks real short in comparison to the rear.

Looks like the -20cm wheelbase has all been taken out of the nose?

 

The wheelbase reduction comes from the rear, as the front wheels are largely set by the driving position.

 

The nose may be shorter, possibly because the front wing isn't so big.

[Wuzak]

Active aero ?

 

Yes, long talked about. 

 

Like DRS, but for front and rear wings.

 

And probably for use any time the car is not in a corner. These cars will lack power.

[Stephane]

I'm ashamed i missed that.

[Beri]

Yes, long talked about. 

 

Like DRS, but for front and rear wings.

 

And probably for use any time the car is not in a corner. These cars will lack power.

 

Strange thing to say about a Formula One car. Despite we all knowing the 2026 engine rules arent the greatest ever to have been introduced.

[Beri]

Oh, and those 16 inch wheels just look perfect. Way better than the 18 inch monstrosities they are today.

[DW46]

Strange thing to say about a Formula One car. Despite we all knowing the 2026 engine rules arent the greatest ever to have been introduced.

Will be interesting to see who gets it right, I can’t see the pecking order changing till the new regs. If I was a top driver I’d like to be a free agent in 2027.

[pacificquay]

Looks like a move in the right direction

[PayasYouRace]

Yes, long talked about.

Like DRS, but for front and rear wings.

And probably for use any time the car is not in a corner. These cars will lack power.

How much lack of power are we talking?

[Anja]

Looks good to me, a nice evolution of the current cars. 

[Touchdown]

Very much like the fact that they think the slipstream effect will be increased - I've long thought a combination of the 2021 cars slipstream and the way the cars could follow at the start of 2022 would actually give some very nice action even without DRS.

[Afterburner]

That’s… excellent! Everything is moving in the right direction!

[danmills]

Aesthetically pleasing!

[ARTGP]

It looks like the transition from 2006 to 2007. More sticky uppy bits...

[Wuzak]

How much lack of power are we talking?

 

~375kW-425kW  (~500-570hp) from the ICE.

 

350kW (470hp) from the MGUK.

 

Maximum energy recovery per lap - 9MJ = ~25s @ 350kW.

 

However, most tracks have ~10-15s braking per lap, which means around 3.5MJ to 5.25MJ per lap. so they will have to burn fuel somewhere to make up the energy recovery or have only 10-15s per lap deployment.

 

Power of the MGUK is reduced by 5kW per km/h over 300km/h, to a maximum of 150kW at 340km/h.

 

Probably by mid straight they will be down to ICE power alone, and then will be recover energy (up to 100kW) under full throttle at the end of the straights.

[Alfisti]

Oh, and those 16 inch wheels just look perfect. Way better than the 18 inch monstrosities they are today.

I remember a chorus of cheering for 18 inch wheels, it was always going to look utterly stupid. 13 was too small but 18 was a total over reaction. 16 looks miles better. 

[Boing Ball]

Not great, not terrible, but somewhat disappointing. They just narrowed and shortened them a bit but kept the same questionable proportions. The parts that remained at the same size (i.e. halo) now just look bigger. Unless the weight comes down significantly, now that the centre of the mass is higher, they will still be slow and tank like in tight corners.

[Wuzak]

Not great, not terrible, but somewhat disappointing. They just narrowed and shortened them a bit but kept the same questionable proportions. The parts that remained at the same size (i.e. halo) now just look bigger. Unless the weight comes down significantly, now that the centre of the mass is higher, they will still be slow and tank like in tight corners.

 

The smaller and narrower wheels and tyres should save some weight, as will reducing the wheelbase.

 

The width reduction may only come from reducing the width of the tyres.

[balmybaldwin]

Barge boards appear to be back too

[Burai]

I remember a chorus of cheering for 18 inch wheels, it was always going to look utterly stupid. 13 was too small but 18 was a total over reaction. 16 looks miles better. 

 

18 would have been fine if they'd lowered the tyre profile ala WEC and F2. Keeping the profile from the 13s makes them look massive.

 

16 should be a good compromise.

[Boing Ball]

The smaller and narrower wheels and tyres should save some weight, as will reducing the wheelbase.

 

The width reduction may only come from reducing the width of the tyres.

The weight should drop to 1−(2×3,6−1,9×3,4)÷(2×3,6)×795 or to about 713 kgs if the drop was proportional to the loss of size. This seems unlikely. Proportionally smaller but heavier car is not going to be more 'nimble' which many fans have been calling for.

[tourister46a]

Are they going to have the current DRS system on top of the active drag reduction?

[milestone 11]

18 would have been fine if they'd lowered the tyre profile ala WEC and F2. Keeping the profile from the 13s makes them look massive.
 
16 should be a good compromise.

They're lower profile but with the same rolling radius.

[milestone 11]

Look better already to me but they should have reduced the wheelbase by 400mm

[TauriJ]

Are they going to have the current DRS system on top of the active drag reduction?

DRS isnt going anywhere, we are stuck with it

[GuilhermeMach]

They're lower profile but with the same rolling radius.

I’m pretty sure the current tire diameter is larger by about 50mm. But yes, the profile is smaller than the 13 inch tyres.

I remember discussing this back in 2010 and my opinion then was that 15” was the way to go, same as IndyCar I believe. Still, 16” is a move in the right direction. These 18” abominations never should have happened

[milestone 11]

I’m pretty sure the current tire diameter is larger by about 50mm. But yes, the profile is smaller than the 13 inch tyres.
I remember discussing this back in 2010 and my opinion then was that 15” was the way to go, same as IndyCar I believe. Still, 16” is a move in the right direction. These 18” abominations never should have happened

Yes, you're right, 670 to 720.

[AlexS]

Horrible. Don't looks like an F1 seems a series car. At least based on these pictures.

[Grippy]

Cockpit will be narrower......

Who's the largest driver?

Getting 'our Nige' 1995 McLaren vibes here.

[GreenMachine]

Interesting concept.

 

So, how much extra drag will the front wheels produce as a result of the new FW regs?   How much of this will be offset by the smaller wheels?  This will also place a premium on cleaning up the front suspension to reduce drag/ensure cleanest air going south.  

 

Will there be any effect on driver safety from the narrower cockpit ( is it opening only?), is there a reworking of the head restraint padding on the side openings?  There are some tall drivers I know, but how many are really broad across the shoulders?

 

I think the 'new concept' aero is a bit of an over-statement, they are still ground effect cars.  Outwash to inwash is a big change, but hardly radical, I think the teams have the tools to take this in their stride.

 

More concerned about the engine regs ... 

[AustinF1]

Looks smaller. Is it? Apologies. I haven't been keeping up with the evolution of these rules.

[krapmeister]

Anyone else getting major Indycar vibes from it? Like a more refined IR18 sans aeroscreen...

Edited by krapmeister, 15 November 2023 - 22:05.

[AustinF1]

The smaller and narrower wheels and tyres should save some weight, as will reducing the wheelbase.

 

The width reduction may only come from reducing the width of the tyres.

I assume that's a minimum wheelbase. Is there a maximum?

[Wuzak]

I assume that's a minimum wheelbase. Is there a maximum?

 

That is the maximum.

 

Currently it is 3,600mm.

[Wuzak]

Are they going to have the current DRS system on top of the active drag reduction?

 

No, there won't be an additional device.

 

But they may play with the active aero to get a similar effect.

[YamahaV10]

Is this just fan art or is there some legitimacy to it ? It does look just a little shorter. 

Edited by YamahaV10, 16 November 2023 - 01:26.

[YamahaV10]

Anyone else getting major Indycar vibes from it? Like a more refined IR18 sans aeroscreen...

 

Kinda. The front wing looks similar at some angles. 

 

[Wuzak]

Is this just fan art or is there some legitimacy to it ? It does look just a little shorter. 

 

It is from the FIA.

[krapmeister]

Is this just fan art or is there some legitimacy to it ? It does look just a little shorter.

Size comparison here: https://www.reddit.c...en_202223_cars/

[krapmeister]

Kinda. The front wing looks similar at some angles.

Not just the frontwing, but the overall proportions and shape of the floor reminds me of the Dallara. Like if an F1 team got an IR18 and went about refining it...

[PayasYouRace]

Not just the frontwing, but the overall proportions and shape of the floor reminds me of the Dallara. Like if an F1 team got an IR18 and went about refining it...

It’s a good place to start, though to me it’s clearly more of an evolution of the current F1 cars than any particular Indycar.

[Beri]

Size comparison here: https://www.reddit.c...en_202223_cars/

 

Good. Its getting there!

[Ali_G]

Narrower car is the wrong direction. Renderings make it look like a spec series car.

[1player]

Narrower car is the wrong direction. Renderings make it look like a spec series car.

??? Are you saying we need even bigger cars?

 

Or are you saying width and depth are fine, but cars should actually be TALLER than they are now

 

EDIT: also, small cars doesn't mean spec series. I'm not sure where you've got this notion from

Edited by 1player, 16 November 2023 - 22:58.

[P123]

Size comparison here: https://www.reddit.c...en_202223_cars/

 

They'll need to shrink the F2 cars now too, and then the F3.  All of which are bloated compared to their predecessors.

 

I'm also not sure that is the best comparison?  Unless the drivers are to be shrunk down too.  They'll need to drop a few shoe sizes at least. 

[Ali_G]

??? Are you saying we need even bigger cars?

Or are you saying width and depth are fine, but cars should actually be TALLER than they are now

EDIT: also, small cars doesn't mean spec series. I'm not sure where you've got this notion from

I’m saying the track shouldn’t be less than 2.0m. If I had my way they’d return to 1980s dimensions with a 2.2m track. That with a much short wheelbase would make them much more unstable and difficult to drive.

[Autodromo]

Indycars and F1 cars are essentially trying to solve mostly the same problems, so it should not be surprising if they have similarities.

[1player]

I’m saying the track shouldn’t be less than 2.0m. If I had my way they’d return to 1980s dimensions with a 2.2m track. That with a much short wheelbase would make them much more unstable and difficult to drive.

Fair enough, but it's MUCH simpler to change the regs and make smaller cars, than ask two dozen circuits around the world to completely redo their track, maybe tear down a few houses in those narrow street circuits. Monaco will go bankrupt.