61 replies to this topic

[Jvr]

Toyota announced the same drivers for the next year campaign, so no surprises there.

 

But the shocking news is that Rovvanperä will only drive a partial season in 2024     

 

https://twitter.com/...529581098930511

Edited by Jvr, 20 November 2023 - 09:30.

[Vesuvius]

Big news, means he will not defend his title, althought he will now have a better starting position in rallies ( unless rules will change) so there is a chance to win all of them. There were rumours about this, so it didn't came as a full surprise.

Edited by Vesuvius, 20 November 2023 - 09:41.

[Jvr]

So who will win the drivers' championship next year: Neuville, Tänak or Evans? As far as I can see they're the only real candidates with a full rally schedule in 2024.

[Vesuvius]

So who will win the drivers' championship next year: Neuville, Tänak or Evans? As far as I can see they're the only real candidates with a full rally schedule in 2024.

Yes, Will be interesting to see for sure. Much will depend on the cars, Hyundai has invested a lot they got Francois-Xavier Demaison to lead their Technical apartment (the man is a genius and behind the titles of Peugeot and Volkswagen).
Kalle have a very good chance to win 6-7 rallies that he drives and choose to drive, althougt it might be a bit unrealistic, so he and Ogier as well could be very high on the list.

[Topsu]

Seb and Kalle just need to split their rallies and we'll have a champion with zero victories. Deary me, this sport is in a bad place.

[Jvr]

I'm not sure the deal is for the third car been shared between Ogier and Rovanperä. It could also be that some rallies Toyota has four cars and both Ogier and Kalle will drive the same rally.

[Vesuvius]

I'm not sure the deal is for the third car been shared between Ogier and Rovanperä. It could also be that some rallies Toyota has four cars and both Ogier and Kalle will drive the same rally.

That's possible as well yes. They may have different favourite rallies however, Kalle will likely skip Monaco and Ogier will not. Kalle will surely drive his favourite rallies Sweden, Estonia and Finland and Ogier will not.

[Jvr]

That's possible as well yes. They may have different favourite rallies however, Kalle will likely skip Monaco and Ogier will not. Kalle will surely drive his favourite rallies Sweden, Estonia and Finland and Ogier will not.

Mind you Estonia is not in next year's calendar rather than Latvia.

 

I'd love to see Kalle in Monte Carlo, though. It is always an unique event, especially if there's some ice and snow.

[Taxi]

WRC is trully a mess. Why would the reigning champion step aside to run in it as a hobby?  So next year it's Tanak/Evans. 

[EightGear]

Sad to see the state of WRC.

[ArnageWRC]

WRC is trully a mess. Why would the reigning champion step aside to run in it as a hobby?  So next year it's Tanak/Evans. 

 

And he's the 2nd WRC champion to do this; 2021 champion Ogier drove part time in 2022. No other top series has champions not defending their titles.......From that, we can conclude the WRC needs a serious shake up. WRC Promoter are asleep at the wheel.....

[pacificquay]

A World Rally Championship without a round in the UK isn't worthy of the name.

[EightGear]

A World Rally Championship without a round in the UK isn't worthy of the name.

Yes it is.

[ArnageWRC]

A World Rally Championship without a round in the UK isn't worthy of the name.

 

Why? Have you forgotten 1996.....it was an F2 only round.....

 

No country has the right to host a WRC event (even Finland). The sport in the UK has been appallingly run, and the former flagship event can't attract any money to host a WRC round........

[Muppetmad]

I admire Kalle for making the decision that's right for him. That said, it's going to feel like a hollow title for whoever wins it next year, unless they can take the fight to Kalle on the rallies in which he participates.

[Hrco42]

WTF? How isn't everyone more surprised by this? This is so weird IMO, imagine Vettel taking a year off after 2011 or Max after 2022

[Taxi]

Well I'm a bit worried about Kalle. I seems to be a bit drained (mental health in check) and it can have and impact in his life. Look, he's just a kid who's dedicated his entire life to rally, after all the pressure, the trips, the business the PR, etc,  at 23 years old it's better to be carefull.  

[ArnageWRC]

WTF? How isn't everyone more surprised by this? This is so weird IMO, imagine Vettel taking a year off after 2011 or Max after 2022

 

Why? Because there's a massive apathy/ uninterest in the current WRC.......

[Ruusperi]

It's very likely Rovaperä will do his military service next year. By the law every Finnish male citizen has to go to army for 6 months (or have 12 month non-military service). Kalle actually started his military service in 2019, but only for like a week.

In the past sportspeople could cheat their way through the army without actually attending much of the official program. But a couple of years ago rules were revised so that no exceptions are allowed for sportspeople any longer, so they have to stay in the barracks all the time.

[TauriJ]

WTF? How isn't everyone more surprised by this? This is so weird IMO, imagine Vettel taking a year off after 2011 or Max after 2022

There were rumours but I thought they were rubbish. 

 

Well now its Tänak's title to lose

[Jvr]

It's very likely Rovaperä will do his military service next year. By the law every Finnish male citizen has to go to army for 6 months (or have 12 month non-military service). Kalle actually started his military service in 2019, but only for like a week.

In the past sportspeople could cheat their way through the army without actually attending much of the official program. But a couple of years ago rules were revised so that no exceptions are allowed for sportspeople any longer, so they have to stay in the barracks all the time.

I'd forgotten that he of course needs to do the military service as well. Kimi Räikkönen did his service, too but before his F1 career. The stories of that time are legendary... 

[Hrco42]

Why? Because there's a massive apathy/ uninterest in the current WRC.......

Ok, but that's the profession he choose. And it's not like he's gonna switch to F1, MotoGP or something else. I mean, if he did that, it would be weird but still kinda understandable. But he intends to stay in the WRC, just will take one year off and miss out on an almost certain title.

He's on the top of the world now, but a lot can happen in one year. What if he looses his edge? What if 2025 Toyota is not that good anymore?

And even if he comes back and wins 10 titles in a row, it could have been 13 without this break.

And what if he wins most of these 7 rallies and looses a title by a few points? Would he kick himself? 7 rallies is 210 points, and Evans had 216 this year.

 

I just find it weird that he would take a sabbatical so young. If it indeed is due to the military, that would make sense. But it's still weird that he couldn't have gotten out of it.

[Risil]

But it's still weird that he couldn't have gotten out of it.

 

Finland has a military threat on its border now (not Sweden)

 

The Autosport article doesn't mention Rovanpera's national service obligations though, where did that come from? 

[Myrvold]

And he's the 2nd WRC champion to do this; 2021 champion Ogier drove part time in 2022. No other top series has champions not defending their titles.......From that, we can conclude the WRC needs a serious shake up. WRC Promoter are asleep at the wheel.....

 

Loeb 2013.

 

Then you have drivers before as well, but how much that is down to team priorities and driver choices isn't easy to say.

Not many other championships have people doing part-time schedules anyway.

[Jvr]

Finland has a military threat on its border now (not Sweden)

 

The Autosport article doesn't mention Rovanpera's national service obligations though, where did that come from? 

Well, he's a Finn and all males are under obligatory military service by the law. And Rovanperä has not completed that service, yet.

It is unsure, of course, if he uses next year to do the service. Kalle or the team neither have mentioned that as a partial reason for the next year programme, but to do the service he must.

[Risil]

Ah so that bit's reasoned speculation. Anyway thanks for making the thread!

[Myrvold]

Ok, but that's the profession he choose. And it's not like he's gonna switch to F1, MotoGP or something else. I mean, if he did that, it would be weird but still kinda understandable. But he intends to stay in the WRC, just will take one year off and miss out on an almost certain title.

He's on the top of the world now, but a lot can happen in one year. What if he looses his edge? What if 2025 Toyota is not that good anymore?

And even if he comes back and wins 10 titles in a row, it could have been 13 without this break.

And what if he wins most of these 7 rallies and looses a title by a few points? Would he kick himself? 7 rallies is 210 points, and Evans had 216 this year.

 

You look at it from a the point of view of someone who would love to have the chance to do it? I know I do.

 

However, Rovanperä have basically been doing this his whole life. It might be his choice, but there's shades of young movie/tv stars in it as well. You do see some of the same with Max Verstappen. He wants to do other things as well. You see it in other sports, with some noticeable exceptions, that people who gets their breakthrough very early, they also burn out quicker. Unless they have a massive drive for records, or an ego that needs to be fed.

 

I think the quote from Dani Sordo is quite telling. When Sordo join WRC it was more social, they went out to eat dinner together etc. now everyone just stays inside watching onboards. It's not how it once was. I think it's quite telling that we now have at least 4 part-time drivers in Rally1, all chosing to do so themselves.
I have no idea how to change it, as it genuinely seems like some of the issue for these drivers are all the time spend looking at a screen, making notes etc. and sacrificing social life. Outlawing onboards doesn't exactly work...

[Jvr]

I can now understand also better that some drivers ask for shorter weekends with less super stages and mileage: they would not need to spend so much time for the onboard videos of the earlier years and pace notes as they do now. Also the days are quite long when you start very early in the day and finish late in the day meaning all the preparations for the next day are been done during the time supposedly reserved for the rest.

[George Costanza]

Sad to see the state of WRC.

It sure isn't the days of 1990's.

[George Costanza]

WTF? How isn't everyone more surprised by this? This is so weird IMO, imagine Vettel taking a year off after 2011 or Max after 2022

WRC hasn't been the same in 20 plus years.

[P123]

A World Rally Championship without a round in the UK isn't worthy of the name.

 

More like Rally GB taking place only in Wales wasn't worthy of the name!

 

As for Rovanpera, at first I thought why would Toyota do that to him, but it's entirely his choice.  At 23 I guess he can afford to take a breather, and have another decade at the top.

[Dolph]

A World Rally Championship without a round in the UK isn't worthy of the name.

 

What's special about the UK in the context or rallying? There's no Tour de Course, yet French drivers have won 17 out of the last 20 titles. French cars have won 9 out of the last 20 titles. Where's the outrage for France?     

[Myrvold]

It sure isn't the days of 1990's.

 

We're getting there though? 5 full-time drivers in 1996, only 3 full-time drivers in 1997.

 

1996 with 9 WRC rounds and three Subaru-drivers doing all events. Ford with Sainz and whatever specialist they could get before settling on Bruno Thiry... again. And then we had Mitsubishi, giving Mäkinen his first title, and the second car in that team was shared among a whole heap of drivers, but interestingly enough, for several events that year Mitsubishi entered a Group N car(!) as their second point scoring car. And only twice that year, did they enter three Gr.A cars to score points. They often had three cars nominated for points, but usually the third car was just a local Group N driver who would do the rally in PWRC anyway (or Group N cup as it was then), and got entered to score manufacturer points. What I always found interesting was that except for Rally Indonesia, Ford never did that. Even in Finland with all the finnish privateers, and some great names in a Ford, they didn't get nominated to score points in that third car.

[Bleu]

13 races in the calendar next year so seven races for each with both participating Japan (as it is manufacturer home race) would be the most logical thing.

[ClubmanGT]

What's special about the UK in the context or rallying? There's no Tour de Course, yet French drivers have won 17 out of the last 20 titles. French cars have won 9 out of the last 20 titles. Where's the outrage for France?     

 

Long-standing rallies like NZ, Tour De Course etc got dropped for dubious logistical reasons but suddenly Rally GB gets the same treatment and it should be an existential crisis for the sport, apparently.

Face it, after Safari got dropped nothing was safe. 

 

The current malaise will continue as long as they stick with the Rally1 cars in their current form. The stated reasoning for rejecting Rally2 was IMO, pretty average and should be revisited. 

[Jvr]

13 races in the calendar next year so seven races for each with both participating Japan (as it is manufacturer home race) would be the most logical thing.

On the paper, yes. But there are rallies both love and hate.

What do you think who has the first pick, Seb or Kalle?

 

EDIT: and this year Seb had eight rallies he wanted to participate so that does not match very well for a balanced car sharing, does it?

Edited by Jvr, 20 November 2023 - 18:28.

[flatlandsman]

A very sensible decision for the lad, he has a lot if interests in other things and knows he will be able to take a year out or a partial year and still come back refreshed,m his head is very well and truly screwed on this lad, and I feel he wants to try other things,

[Taxi]

Finland has a military threat on its border now (not Sweden)

 

The Autosport article doesn't mention Rovanpera's national service obligations though, where did that come from? 

 

Those norwegians!

[ArnageWRC]

Loeb 2013.

 

Then you have drivers before as well, but how much that is down to team priorities and driver choices isn't easy to say.

Not many other championships have people doing part-time schedules anyway.

I meant in recent times - I'm well aware of all the others......Don't try and be clever......

[PayasYouRace]

Long-standing rallies like NZ, Tour De Course etc got dropped for dubious logistical reasons but suddenly Rally GB gets the same treatment and it should be an existential crisis for the sport, apparently.
Face it, after Safari got dropped nothing was safe.

Rallying has very much dropped off my radar, but recently found myself watching gameplay of the new WEC game (the first EA/Codemasters one) and was very surprised at how few “classic” rallies were part of the championship. This to the extent that the devs included a bunch of extra classics with generic names to cover some of the missing ones.

[ClubmanGT]

Rallying has very much dropped off my radar, but recently found myself watching gameplay of the new WEC game (the first EA/Codemasters one) and was very surprised at how few “classic” rallies were part of the championship. This to the extent that the devs included a bunch of extra classics with generic names to cover some of the missing ones.

 

From what I can tell, the game is a buggy mess and it's a real shame because the car list is actually pretty good. I want to set up a sim rig at some point but it won't be for this version of WRC, that's for sure. 

 

Inexcusable considering how good Assetto Corsa Rally looks. 

[Myrvold]

I meant in recent times

 

That wasn't entirely clear, and I'd still classify Loeb as "recent times".

 

For the rest... shrugs.

[Myrvold]

From what I can tell, the game is a buggy mess and it's a real shame because the car list is actually pretty good. I want to set up a sim rig at some point but it won't be for this version of WRC, that's for sure. 

 

Inexcusable considering how good Assetto Corsa Rally looks. 

 

It's not that buggy, but the stutter-issues that follow the Unreal Engine is an issue.

[Jvr]

Neuville, Tänak, and Lappi were interviewed by DirtFish and were asked their opinion about the Kalle's part time season: they all agree that it is a sign that something is very wrong with the current WRC.

https://www.youtube....h?v=Thv9vTydm_8

Edited by Jvr, 21 November 2023 - 07:49.

[JRodrigues]

I didn't see muh talk when Rosberg QUIT after winning one championship. He's never had a life besides rallying, let him enjoy his time and do what he wants. There's too much pressure on kids these days to be THE One.

[PayasYouRace]

From what I can tell, the game is a buggy mess and it's a real shame because the car list is actually pretty good. I want to set up a sim rig at some point but it won't be for this version of WRC, that's for sure.

Inexcusable considering how good Assetto Corsa Rally looks.

Come to the Racing Sims forum to discuss that.

I was just using it as a reference for the state of rallying at the moment.

[PayasYouRace]

I didn't see muh talk when Rosberg QUIT after winning one championship. He's never had a life besides rallying, let him enjoy his time and do what he wants. There's too much pressure on kids these days to be THE One.

Do you really believe that Rosberg’s retirement wasn’t discussed at great length in this very forum?

[SophieB]

To jog memories…

 

https://forums.autos...etires-from-f1/

 

 

[ensign14]

Back in the day, the likes of Kankkunen and Vatanen and Mikkola would be driving until they were well past their peak, or physically incapable of competing any longer.

 

I think it's fair to say...

 

...Finns ain't what they used to be.

[JRodrigues]

Do you really believe that Rosberg’s retirement wasn’t discussed at great length in this very forum?

 

It's not the discussion on the decision, it's translating the decision to the state of the sport.