Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Jim Lytle's Quad Al


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Wuzak

Wuzak
  • Member

  • 8,383 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 26 November 2023 - 12:17

https://www.macsmoto...s-of-jim-lytle/

 

Just how fast could that car have gone?

 

Most seem to claim 12,000hp - 3,000hp per engine. It depends on how much the engines were modified, and what model they were.

 

The single stage V-1710 weighed ~1,350lb (612kg), depending on accessories.

 

So 4 of them would be 5,400lb.

 

Guessing that the drive train and chassis is around the same, that gives around 10,800lb.

 

Using an online ET calculator I get 5.6s @ 245mph for the 1/4 mile. Assuming, of course, it could get the power to the ground.

 

Magoo's article said that the Big Al II ran 9.31s @ 163mph.

 

How does that compare for the times?

 



Advertisement

#2 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 3,688 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 26 November 2023 - 14:02

What Quad Al really was, as shown below:. The chassis was barely sufficient to keep the four Allisons off the floor. It's said the four engines were gutted internally to save weight. The bell housings were sheet steel cans incapable of supporting any internal mechanism. Given the dual-slick setup, the front Rzeppa joints don't stand a chance. There were no fuel or cooling systems, etc and so forth. I feel I would be belaboring the obvious to go any further. 

 

As for the 3,000x 4 = 12,000 hp, it appears that figure was derived with the reasoning, "They say WWII aircraft engines could make 3,000 hp, so that's what these make." The max-rated production Allison V-1710 was around 1,500 hp if I recall. The unlimited Reno air racers were said to get 2,300 hp. Mr. Wuzak, you are more knowledgable on aircraft engines than me. 

 

I regard Jim Lytle's Quad Al as an entertaining hoax. It was the Ed "Big Daddy" Roth era of hot rod shows and magazines, and Quad Al was part of the spectacle. From what I have gathered, the only two Jim Lytle Allison creations that actually ran were the '34 Ford, Big Al, and the White 3000 semi truck. The rest were pushmobiles. 

 

 

 

 

357729602_10227488235966491_233744839200



#3 Wuzak

Wuzak
  • Member

  • 8,383 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 26 November 2023 - 14:50

As for the 3,000x 4 = 12,000 hp, it appears that figure was derived with the reasoning, "They say WWII aircraft engines could make 3,000 hp, so that's what these make." The max-rated production Allison V-1710 was around 1,500 hp if I recall. The unlimited Reno air racers were said to get 2,300 hp. Mr. Wuzak, you are more knowledgable on aircraft engines than me. 

 

It really depends on the version of the Allison.

 

There were versions that were configured to run with a turbocharger, so their maximum power was sea level power. Mid war P-38 engines had around 1,600hp.

 

The other engines were rated for a certain altitude and throttled for sea level. They could certainly make more boost by using less throttling.

 

The best late/post war engines were making ~2,300hp. They were the 2 stage versions, which the hydroplane racers used, but without the second stage.

 

Modern air racer V-1710s would get over 3,000hp.

 

The ultimate versions of the V-1710 were rated at about 3,000hp, but these were turbo-compound versions that didn't go into production. They recovered about 900-1,000hp from the turbine.



#4 mariner

mariner
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 27 November 2023 - 15:53

This has nothing to do with the thread (!) but I found it as link on one of Magoo's Mac's motor city vids when following the link above . It's  some GM plants in 1960 making Impala's.

 

So much more human assembly of small parts thean now but I noticed loading full sub assemblies onto the line ain't new , see the whole Impala front end go on with lights etc already installed 

 



#5 mariner

mariner
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 27 November 2023 - 16:04

Sorry , on a roll thanks to YT's links.

 

This is an old GM promo of developing and building the  Corvair.

 

I think the most interesting bit tis the casting JIT, a huge open cauldron of moltern aluminium going by a private road from smelter to engine plant!

 

Anybody know where it is? 

 

I could guess nr Buffalo judging by the river in the background, the big cheap hydro electiciiy at Niagara Falls and the GM plant at Tonawanda nearby

 



#6 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 3,688 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 27 November 2023 - 17:54

The Alcoa aluminum foundry and the GM casting plant for Corvair parts were in Messena, NY up toward the northeast corner of the state. The Alcoa plant is still running I think but the GM casting plant is gone. Messena Casting also did the Vega blocks. 

 

The engines were assembled at the Tonawanda plant several hundred miles west. 



#7 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 3,688 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 27 November 2023 - 18:02

Mariner, quite true about the manpower levels. When I walk into an auto assembly plant today my first thought is hey, where did everybody go. It's very different from the  '70s. A  ghost town. 

 

If you look at the old movies from the '30s it was even more labor intensive with people working elbow and elbow and struggling to stay out of each other's way. 

 

The other thing that always strikes me when I walk into a current plant is how clean and spotless it is and how comfortable. 

 

Plants used to be hot cold smoky smelly oily etc. Not anymore. While humans can survive these conditions wihout dying, robots can't. So they cleaned it up. 

 

By the way there are more than 400 historic automotive videos at my YouTube channel. All kinds of stuff from all eras. I had to start my own because other channels tend to come and go and then the linked content disappears. If you like Jam Handy movies I have most of them. I love the "First, the earth cooled" expository style. 

 

https://www.youtube....Qsgz5Fbajs8Qbzg


Edited by Magoo, 27 November 2023 - 18:15.


#8 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 6,346 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 27 November 2023 - 21:40

"huge open cauldron of molten aluminium going by a private road from smelter to engine plant!" we wanted to do that but there is no private road, it would have been through the town center. So, no.



#9 GreenMachine

GreenMachine
  • Member

  • 2,608 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 27 November 2023 - 23:51

AIUI, Ford got a special deal (permit) to run B-triples Geelong-Broadmeadows, might have been first use on public roads in Australia.



#10 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 6,346 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 28 November 2023 - 04:33

Made for fun overtaking.



#11 gruntguru

gruntguru
  • Member

  • 7,630 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 29 November 2023 - 01:55

Yes, they even run them up the Newell now, as I discovered on a recent trip, Brisbane-Bathurst return.



#12 mariner

mariner
  • Member

  • 2,316 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 29 November 2023 - 16:46

Continuing the odd transport theme if I may when GM developed the infamous  Chevy Vega they put a huge effort into cost reduction, s not all o successful but the rail transport method was actually quite clever .

 

https://www.motortre...ega-vert-a-pac/



#13 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 6,346 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 29 November 2023 - 22:44

That could go wrong in so many ways



#14 Magoo

Magoo
  • Member

  • 3,688 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 01 December 2023 - 22:45

The Vert-a-Pac rail freight system for the Chevrolet Vega was based on the assumption that space on rail cars is expemsive when actually, it is relatively cheap. 

 

So all that elaborate and complicated fussing around didn't achieve enough in savings to offset all the cost and bother. 

 

It was one more undeniably ingenious idea without any particular value. The Vega had a few of those. 

 

It did, however, produce the so-called sealed-top battery, for which we can be eternally grateful.