145 replies to this topic

[Zmeej]

1/ Someone who actually knows what they’re talking about for a change.

2/ Long past the time that a woman should have this position.

[1player]

Meh. Nothing against her, but there are much better commentators in the biz. Just see the F1 TV crew which are great, knowledgeable and less shouty.

[Zmeej]

When have you heard her shout?

 

Re the F1 TV crew, mid-season the main guy (forgot his name, sorry) started to mimic the DaCro “losing my mind for no reason” style, but appears to have regained most of his dignity.

 

EDIT: That said, he never mastered the art of blathering moronitudes so egregious that they leave the other man in the booth speechless, chuckling for zero reason and with oppressive frequency, and infecting the other broadcasters with the habit of showy “camaraderie” that makes some listeners want to scrape off their skins with dull knives.

 

Apparently, these are qualities that translate into raging popularity in the UK.

Edited by Zmeej, 27 November 2023 - 01:59.

[se7en_24]

Probably one for the Sky thread, like your other anti-Crofty threads? I can't say I've heard Naomi commentate, but she is a good pundit. They are two very different jobs and I doubt if Sky are unhappy with Crofty, he's the voice of F1. Like with Murray back in the day though, it is fashionable for f1 anoraks to say nasty things about him. 

Edited by se7en_24, 26 November 2023 - 17:21.

[Zmeej]

Agree that she’s a good pundit. Also think that this qualifies her for a shot at the main mike.

 

Croft is the voice of F1 the way FIA stewards are. Yeah, but they make you want to tear your teeth out.

 

He is nowhere near Murray’s league, although you’re right about the anoraks back in the day.

 

 

EDIT: Amended the above to give you what you’ve come to expect.

Edited by Zmeej, 26 November 2023 - 21:21.

[chrcol]

F1TV final race cracking conversations between both ex drivers Coulthard and Palmer.

For me Sky is what I watch as a reserve, if for whatever reason I cannot access F1TV.

[DS27]

There's many people I would change Croft for, but she isn't one of them

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

Not sure your second point is really relevant. Apart from her (in my opinion) absolutely not being a lead commentator (though she's fine as a pundit), have you ever thought that she isn't interested in the role? You also can't say she should take over from Croft when, unless I'm mistaken, she's never so much as even taken part in practice session commentary.

[Zmeej]

You raise a valid point. It’s possible she prefers being a pre- and after-race pundit. But I don’t know either way.

 

As for whether my second point is relevant, are you a boy or a girl?

Edited by Zmeej, 26 November 2023 - 20:17.

[Beri]

Cant judge on her commentary skills. But she is a good pundit, is knowledgable, has a high likeability and to me most of all she is one of the nicest persons in Formula One that I have ever spoken to. I met her at Zandvoort this year and she was genuinely kind and caring to me and the other people she was talking to. So maybe I am biased on this 

[Scotracer]

You have to remember the commentary box is split into two roles:

#1) Lead commentator - glue everything together and be entertaining
#2) Technical insight

Naomi is technically right there but she's not proven herself as lead commentator material.

We had a situation in 2011 with BBC where Martin took the lead position and David Coulthard was the technical insight. It worked better than I expected and I enjoyed the rapport the two had. However 13 years later I doubt Martin can be bothered with that. And David is gone to F1TV.

So the key question to me is who could be a replacement lead commentator? Ben Edwards is good. Get James Allen back?!

[Zmeej]

Agree that Brundle & Coulthard worked better than expected and that MB probably wouldn’t want the lead at this point.

 

Dunno who Ben Edwards is.

 

James Allen started off OK, then deteriorated. Would not want him back, although if he served as an interim lead to get Croft off the air I’d be willing to put up with some short term pain.

 

How would you have Ms. Schiff prove herself?

Edited by Zmeej, 26 November 2023 - 20:24.

[messy]

I like her, I think her and Bernie Collins have been excellent additions. It was about time they put Herbert et al out to pasture and they got it resoundingly right in terms of replacements I think. But taking over from Croft is a stretch, I think. Haven’t even heard her commentate.

[richardnunney]

This is the most ridiculous post I have ever read!  She is awful.  A perfect example of tokenism.  She contributes nothing to the debate, reciting cliches she has heard elsewhere.  No F1 pedigree.  

Bernie Collins is the standard a female pundit should be.  Natalie Pinkham on commentary is much much better.

[w1Y]

People overrate Murray based on nostalgia. He made constant and horrendous mistakes which Crofty would get crucified for. People may not like Croftys style but he's pretty good.at what he does.

But the argument of making Naomi a lead commentator is the most ridiculous and obsurb thing I've heard this season.

She's a good pundit but there is a.massive difference in what she does vs being a lead commentator. She's not even best placed to be technical number 2. There you'd want ant-->chandhock-->button

Edited by w1Y, 26 November 2023 - 20:56.

[HerbieMcQueen]

Alex Jacques and Jolyon Palmer would move across to British TV screens from the official lot in a perfect world, when Croft hangs up the mic or is pushed. Much like how a technocrat might not always make the best leader of people, a good pundit doesn't necessarily translate to a good lead commentator. Strange suggestion. I could think of four or five good additions to the lead commentator role, she is far away from being one of them.

[Gambelli]

Not a fan of Croft.... too shouty and too many mistakes, but the last thing I want to see is a female put in the role because 'it's about time we had a female in that role'

 

I want the right person in that role, female or male or non gender, the right person.  The last thing we need is a Disney approach to F1 - as Cartman's Kathleen Kennedy would say 'Put a chick in it, make her gay'

 

I think the coverage has a really solid number of female on air roles now, because they deserve those roles, that's how it should be...

[Shambolic]

I like her, I think her and Bernie Collins have been excellent additions. It was about time they put Herbert et al out to pasture and they got it resoundingly right in terms of replacements I think. But taking over from Croft is a stretch, I think. Haven’t even heard her commentate.

And even if nobody ever hears her commentate, she'll still be doing it better than "Call me Crofty".

[ConsiderAndGo]

Personally, I just don’t see what she adds at all. Don’t want her anymore near the comms box. She seems devoid of a personality.

[Zmeej]

[1] People overrate Murray based on nostalgia.

 

[2] He made constant and horrendous mistakes

 

[3] Crofty would get crucified

 

[4] People may not like Crofty's style but he's pretty good at what he does.

 

[5] the argument of making Naomi a lead commentator is the most ridiculous and obsurb thing I've heard this season.

 

[6] She's a good pundit but there is a massive difference in what she does vs being a lead commentator.

 

[7] She's not even best placed to be technical number 2.

 

[8] There you'd want ant-->chandhock-->button

 

Re 1 - Recall his lead work fondly and enjoy watching/listening to Youtubal re-ups both for what they are and for nostalgia. Don’t overrate him because of it, because I readily acknowledge his flaws, remember being annoyed by some things that annoyed me about him, and am convinced that he would be a lousy lead for an NHL hockey game.

 

On the other hand, wherever Croft came from, he should return there. Doubtless, there would be some who would overrate him out of nostalgia, particularly if the next person Sky puts in front of the lead mike is still worse, which is an idea that boggles the mind, so I hope that doesn't happen.

 

Re 2 - Murray made mistakes. Some of them were hilarious and made either Mr Hunt, Mr Palmer, or Mr Brundle laugh, then Mr Walker would realize that he said something goofy and would correct himself. Some of them were not funny, and the other person in the booth would correct him. His mistakes were frequent enough, but nowhere near constant.

 

Re 3 - That's a bit harsh, but if it were decreed that the UK's broadcasters should be punished according to Roman law, would prefer if this were done in a soundproof basement in the MI6 building and not recorded for posterity. 

 

Re 4 - Bullshit. You may like his style, but that doesn’t make him “pretty good” at what he does, nor does it excuse the fact that his problem isn’t making mistakes but not knowing WTF he’s talking about and acting like he knows as much as Brundle and Kravitz do, among other things. And he wouldn’t correct himself even if five techies & editors shrieked the right information into his earpiece in sequence. Nor does he fathom that most listeners don’t want to hear his idiotic speculations about team strategy when he can’t seem to process the stuff unfolding in front of his bleeding eyes.

 

Re 5 - First off, it wasn't an argument, it was a suggestion. Next, I’m not sure what quality “obsurb” is, but it looks like something that Mr Croft would take as a compliment. Or, as an insult, and not be sure, but talk about it at length. Otherwise, I’m not sure how you heard what I wrote. And yet, if you have posts read to you and you dictate replies, please accept my apologies and I’ll retract the latter statement.

 

Re 6 - A massive difference, eh? Unfortunately, that doesn't communicate much of anything.

 

Re 7 - Well, she sure as sh*t is better placed to be lead commentator than the man doing it for Sky now. Unfortunately, your opinion on “massivity” and conviction that he’s pretty good at what he does is not sufficiently persuasive to shift me off my opinion. Sorry.

 

Re 8 - Lost me again. Is that more “Croft dialect”? Translation please.

Edited by Zmeej, 27 November 2023 - 02:30.

[Muzzyf1]

You must be kidding can't stand her at all

[Zmeej]

Nice and clear-cut.

[PayasYouRace]

Does she actually have the skills to do live commentary, and main commentary at that? I feel like the OP is suggesting her because they have a little crush, rather than anything substantive.

 

It's a tougher job than many realise. It's easy to be the pundit who gets asked questions by an anchor post race, or even be the expert in the commentary booth, but actually leading the commentary team is a totally different set of skills. You need someone who can be entertaining, describe what they're seeing, and hold it all together in a flowing and natural style. I know Croft isn't exactly setting a high bar, but you can't just suggest the first pretty face you see.

[JacnGille]

Not a fan of Croft.... too shouty and too many mistakes, but the last thing I want to see is a female put in the role because 'it's about time we had a female in that role'

 

And talks way too much.

[flyboym3]

OP I think you've misunderstood the role. I don't think Schiff is a commentator. That person usually has to chat for hours at full pelt, its quite a difficult thing to do, not everyone can talk for England.

[TMC44]

Not a fan of Croft or Schiff. Much prefer Powell and MacKenzie when it comes to female presenters.

[Zmeej]

[1] Does she actually have the skills to do live commentary, and main commentary at that?

 

[2] I feel like the OP is suggesting her because they have a little crush, rather than anything substantive.

 

[3] It's a tougher job than many realise.

 

[4] It's easy to be the pundit who gets asked questions by an anchor post race, or even be the expert in the commentary booth,

 

[5] actually leading the commentary team is a totally different set of skills. You need someone who can be entertaining, describe what they're seeing, and hold it all together in a flowing and natural style.

 

Re 1 - Dunno, but I think it would be cool if she were given a shot.

 

Re 2 - Nah. Like her style, her ease, and her ability to convey her depth of knowledge & experience, as well as their limits. At the moment, the only radio or TV person I'm smitten with is Nahlah Ayed, the host of CBC Radio's phenomenal program Ideas. She was once a great foreign events correspondent, and she is still beautiful.

 

Re 3 - That's very true. Know from personal experience that merely talking on the radio without the pressure of keeping up with what's going on that you need to describe is surprisingly harder than many realise. Also, the Hockey Hall of Fame has a booth in which one can listen to an old broadcast and fill in either the play-by-play or colour commentary. It has many people dropping the earphones saying "Holy cow! How do they do that?"

 

Re 4 - Dunno how easy it is. The vast majority of racing drivers and hockey players are LOUSY colour commentators, those who are OK are a small minority, and those who are very good are rare jewels.

 

Re 5 - Well said.

Edited by Zmeej, 27 November 2023 - 02:32.

[Zmeej]

[1] OP I think you've misunderstood the role.

 

[2] I don't think Schiff is a commentator.

 

[3] not everyone can talk for England.

 

Re 1 - Nope.

 

Re 2 - I don't know if she's a commentator or not. See "Re 1" of my reply to PayasYouRace.

 

Re 3 - Those commentators who "talk for England" drive me up the wall.

 

When Walker did it, I hated it; when James Allen did it, I loathed it. Because Allen did it when Hamilton was winning championships, the audio of the coverage often became intolerable, and I stopped watching F1. The principal reasons I watched so much of this season were

- Zmeejette got back into it;

- Mme got into it for the first time in her life!

 

If it were only up to me to watch races, DCroft probably would have chased me away.

 

Anyway, back on track - Murray spread his allegiances around and loved everything about and in racing for their own sake, so even when he was dissolving in love for, say, Damon Hill, there were moments when it was touching rather than emetic. However, when he talked about Mansell, he gave me a rash and hemorrhoids.

Edited by Zmeej, 27 November 2023 - 02:06.

[loki]

Danica.  All Danica all the time…

[Zmeej]

She's good lookin', but from what I've heard, she can be annoyin' talkin'...

[1player]

A lot of words, but I still have to hear why you believe Naomi to be able to talk for hours, during exciting races and boring free practice sessions. And to be the shouty hype man.

Because as much as you guys dislike Croft, that is what he is paid for. To shout and to talk and fill the empty spaces. In F1TV there is Alex Jacques, beloved by many, I'm a bit meh about him because he IS the Crofty guy: shouts at the start, gets very excited and that type of commentator works well as contrast to the technical ones like Button, Chandhok or Palmer. Instead of good cop/bad cop, in commentating there's hype man/serious man.

Now, how in the world do you believe Naomi to be a good shouty person? I agree with PAYR, you're smitten with her and not being very objective. You're thinking with your **** in other words

[Burai]

People overrate Murray based on nostalgia. He made constant and horrendous mistakes which Crofty would get crucified for. People may not like Croftys style but he's pretty good.at what he does.

 

Murray largely commentated at a time when the commentators would have a single, low definition 10 - 14 inch screen to look at and no coloured markers on the car to denote which car was which. No access to multiple camera angles, no on-boards, just the world feed, at the mercy of the local broadcaster. On-screen graphics were barely functional until the 90s. Live timing on a second screen, if available, was crude, slow to update and nothing like the massive info dump we get now. A lot of the time Murray and his producer would literally have to use stopwatches or someone would have to run out to get lap charts. It took Tag Heuer coming in 1994 to make a proper fist of it.

 

If Croft were making the same mistakes as Murray did, with the huge increase in technology and personnel available to him, then he would quite rightly be crucified. Their eras are barely comparable.

[Gary Davies]

1/ Someone who actually knows what they’re talking about for a change.

2/ Long past the time that a woman should have this position.

It's been a long year Zmeej and you can't be blamed for going troppo at the end of the season.

 

With all due respect, please look at post #23. Therein lies sense.

 

I like Croft. As PAYR noted, Croft's job is harder than many can understand. Having watched a lot of F1 commentators going back to Raymond Baxter I see Croft as making relatively few mistakes and those mostly corrected quickly. The information tsunami coming at commentators these days is overwhelming.... way, way more than in Murray Walker's day and his many mistakes were largely laughed off as jolly little Murrayisms. 

 

My sense is that those disliking David Croft are primarily uncomfortable with his corny style and that translates to a loathing that is only indirectly connected to the content of his commentary. 

 

He has been commentating on F1 on Sky Sports for 12 years now and his employer conducts viewer surveys about the format and the team regularly. That he was been a constant all that time suggests that those putting forward their views on a specialist F1 forum may not be entirely representative of the greater audience for Sky's product.

Edited by Gary Davies, 27 November 2023 - 11:27.

[Clatter]

1/ Someone who actually knows what they’re talking about for a change.
2/ Long past the time that a woman should have this position.

1/ Never heard her commentate, so impossible to know if she could even fill the role.

2/ All positions should be filled by the best available person. It should never be a box ticking exercise just because a woman hasnt done the role.

[chrcol]

I think someone good at the role does need to be able to keep talking so isnt empty gaps, but areas I feel Crofty lacks in.

 

He shouts way too loud when he gets excited, raising voice a little ok, but he does it so loud I have to adjust the volume.

I think its important to let the ex sports men talk when they have something to say as 9/10 it is more interesting than the commentator telling us what is happening.  F1TV seem to do this very well, so as an example if an overtake is happening, contact etc. the ex drivers dont get interrupted, instead they mention it themselves or its said after.  Crofty instead keeps interrupting people, really infuriating.

 

On the subject of mistakes, the sky crew dont seem on the ball as much as the F1TV crew, and I think this is a factor in why we get repetitive full screen replays, no picture in picture etc. on the world feed, as they would likely get "confused" by it all.  Whilst its easy to tell F1TV presenters are keeping an eye on things off screen and also the occasional time F1TV has PIP like during lap 3 replays, they will commentate on the live footage.  During lap 3 replays or any other replay, Crofty and Martin are fully focused on the replays, like they are only allowed to talk about whats showing on the world feed, or its all they can handle.

 

Sky got a nice catch with Bernie Collins, but during races the amount she gets interrupted.  urrrgh, shut up Crofty.

Edited by chrcol, 27 November 2023 - 12:33.

[Zmeej]

[Zmeej]

[1] It's been a long year Zmeej and you can't be blamed for going troppo at the end of the season.

 

[2] please look at post #23. Therein lies sense.

 

[3]I like Croft.

 

Re 1 - Thanks.  “Going troppo” - I like that.

 

Re 2 - I did, please see my reply. FWIW, I agree, and agreed with most if not all of what PayasYouRace wrote.

 

Re 3 - Does not compute.

Edited by Zmeej, 27 November 2023 - 14:22.

[mstar]

TBH i like crofty.  Naomi is good but i prefer crofty he is part of F1 now.  The guy i have issues with is Martin Brundle he i think is coming to the end of his sell-by-date now.  His grid walk is getting cringe as he has no idea who anyone is other than Bernie E and Jackie Stewart.  Also he doesnt offer anything that karun/Ant D, can offer to the commentary.  And he has the luxury of choosing which GP he can go and which he wants to miss.  

Edited by mstar, 27 November 2023 - 14:21.

[Clatter]

TBH i like crofty. Naomi is good but i prefer crofty he is part of F1 now. The guy i have issues with is Martin Brundle he i think is coming to the end of his sell-by-date now. His grid walk is getting cringe as he has no idea who anyone is other than Bernie E and Jackie Stewart. Also he doesnt offer anything that karun/Ant D, can offer to the commentary. And he has the luxury of choosing which GP he can go and which he wants to miss.

Is it part of the job to know every so-called celebrity that is wandering around the grid? Id rather he just concentrated on F1 folk.

[F1matt]

People overrate Murray based on nostalgia. He made constant and horrendous mistakes which Crofty would get crucified for. People may not like Croftys style but he's pretty good.at what he does.

But the argument of making Naomi a lead commentator is the most ridiculous and obsurb thing I've heard this season.

She's a good pundit but there is a.massive difference in what she does vs being a lead commentator. She's not even best placed to be technical number 2. There you'd want ant-->chandhock-->button

 

We live in an age where Murray Walker would be replaced quickly, too old, too male, to0 middle class, too many mistakes, and he treat it more as a hobby than an actual career. He had the advantage of been a genuine motorsport fan, he commentated at circuits and the Isle of man, it would be interesting to know if many of todays broadcasters have done this? I don’t mean David Croft working at the darts as part of his Sky contract but done out of the passion for his sport. 

 

The best way to measure David Croft is to compare him to other Sky Sports commentators; he can’t hold a light to any of the football commentators, this makes sense as it is Sky’s bread and butter and they will throw most of their money at football. The golf commentators come across as intelligent and knowledgeable and no hint of an ego, I would put the cricket commentators in the same bracket as the golf, though most are ex-players who also write newspaper columns and books which probably puts them on higher intellectual level than Sky F1 commentators.

 

I think fee paying F1 fans deserve a more professional approach than what they currently receive. 

[Alfisti]

Crofty is fine, I have F1 TV and still choose the pommie feed, the F1 feed is dull and boring. 

 

Brundle still adds a lot but I find myself disagreeing with 75% of his takes on incidents, I've literally NO IDEA how he was mulling over Perez and Norris, i mean to me that is just black and white Perez's fault. He was the inside man and failed to make his apex, pushing Norris out wide and Norris, at some point, has to take the dang corner. But Martin, as usual, disgrees. I don't get it. 

[Jellyfishcake]

I couldn't stand Croft and the Sky Sports approach/direction, so years ago I made the switch to using BBC Radio 5 commentary and syncing it up.

 

Even this year with the revolving door or lead commentator and  tech expert, BBC has continued to be a breath fo fresh air, i've no regrets

[milestone 11]

Crofty is fine, I have F1 TV and still choose the pommie feed, the F1 feed is dull and boring. 

 

Brundle still adds a lot but I find myself disagreeing with 75% of his takes on incidents, I've literally NO IDEA how he was mulling over Perez and Norris, i mean to me that is just black and white Perez's fault. He was the inside man and failed to make his apex, pushing Norris out wide and Norris, at some point, has to take the dang corner. But Martin, as usual, disgrees. I don't get it. 

Red Bull

[cbo]

I'd wish they would develop the commentary beyond the age of radio. I can actually see what goes on, I don't need it repeated to me by a commentator.

Commentators should stop trying to be entertainers. Most of the time, they are just annoying and the banter means that they are often missing or misinterpreting what actually happens on track.

Commentators should know sh*t and be able to enhance my experience by adding knowledge about the intricacies of the sport - choice of lines, braking, steering, strategies and tactics.

I hate split screens, in particular when they show the action in one screen and pointlessly bantering commentators in the other.

As I find the F1TV UK commentary mostly unbearable and hate the split screens on the international F1TV commentary, I sometimes choose the German commentary or simply go with FX (no commentary, just sound).

[PayasYouRace]

Sports commentary where they’re not talking about what’s going on on screen is extremely jarring. It’s like trying to watch TV with someone talking about something else.

[Ferrari2183]

I’m sure Naomi will enjoy Croft’s “Mike” if he’s gender specific like that.

[Shambolic]

I hate split screens, in particular when they show the action in one screen and pointlessly bantering commentators in the other.
 

Sky's obsession with them, just so we can see the team in the booth grinning at the camera with their backs to the screens, epitomises everything wrong with their coverage.

 

As for someone replacing Croft, at this point I'd even take Harpo Marx over the guy.

[cbo]

Croft is horrible. I'd prefer a monkey commenting via a Ouijaboard. Quality would be the same, but the noise level a lot less.....

[cbo]

At Abu Dhabi, commentators (F1TV international commentators) were making a lengthy analysis of the start in split screen mode with race on the smaller of the two screens. Like sitting on the roof watching ants race....

There is a race on for x's sake...!

Leave the analysis to the post race show!

[Primo]

It seems to me that the longer a commentator stays, the more they talk and the more they talk the less they watch the race. The solution is simple: Put a word counter next to the microphone and set a limit of x words/minute. If the limit is exceeded, the mike explodes. Or at least put on auto mute while a thug from the harbor comes into the commentary both and spank the offender with a wet newspaper.