29 replies to this topic

[Collombin]

With the conclusion of another thrilling F1 season, it is time to wrap up another of those “alternative” championships that say a lot about the people who create them, if nothing else.

 

In this instance, we are looking at the one time only WDC alternative, ie who the world champions would be if each driver could only win it once. I only remembered yesterday that I had already mentioned such a championship in the crazy statistics thread either last year or the year before, but never mind – here’s a dedicated thread for it that can die on its own merits.

 

The committee were looking for a snazzy title that encompassed the important elements of how it works, and came up with “Series Winners Excluded After That Year – Necessitating Annual Driver Succession” (SWEATY-NADS).

 

On reflection, I must apologise for that title. If there’s one flaw of the “Committee Undertaking New Title Systems”, it’s that they don’t think through any potential unfortunate acronyms that might emerge.

 

So, how does it work? It’s dead easy, I just look down the actual WDC table and ignore anyone who would previously have won a title. This differs from PAYR’s “No Red Bull” system (a name, incidentally, that doubles as excellent beverage consumption advice) in that I do not remove ineligible drivers’ race results and reallocate points accordingly, I leave race results as they are. The reasoning for this is that I want the top 3 for each season to be in the same order as their actual WDC placing, and not at all because I couldn’t be arsed to do it properly.

 

So, without further ado, I can announce that the champion in 2023 is, for only the sixth time ever and the first for 16 years, a rookie - OSCAR PIASTRI. Yet another year goes by with Ocon and Gasly missing out – anyone would think they don’t like the thought of clinching SWEATY-NADS.

 

For completeness, the top 3 for each season are listed below, champions in CAPITALS. Figures in brackets are the actual WDC positions of each driver, highlighting the years in which this title was particularly strong, and in which it was little more than a participation trophy.

 

Please note that Kubica’s 2008 title is still in some doubt, following a letter from Felipe Massa’s legal team who may not have quite grasped the concept of this particular championship (Massa having already won in 2006). Whilst the matter remains sub judice, I can not openly question their motives, intelligence or sense of fair play. But down the pub, I sure as hell can. And have.

 

Some points of note from looking at the standings:-

Worst champion? Hulkenberg, won in 2013 from a WDC placing of 10th.

Rookie winners? Stewart (1965), Regazzoni (1970), Villeneuve J (1996), Montoya (2001), Hamilton (2007), Piastri (2023)

Longest time taken to win? Patrese (1989), in his 13th season. Not only that, he’d never even podiumed prior to that.

Winning SWEATY-NADS and the WDC in the same year? This has happened 15 times, but not since 1982.

Stirling Moss eventually became quite philosophical about never winning the WDC after coming so close so often. The equivalent driver of this championship is Nick Heidfeld (4 times runner up), who indeed pulled a philosophical (or possibly offended) face when asked if he had any regrets about never having held SWEATY-NADS.  

The future? Clearly the field is bursting with SWEATY-NADS holders at present (now 13 out of 20 including Piastri) which may lead to a potential devaluing of the title’s prestige, but at least this opens up opportunities for success for some of those further down the grid. And a low scoring title fight does give us increased hope of going into the final round with SWEATY-NADS still up for grabs.

Trophy presentation details for this year? Same venue as for the Cut and Shut awards, the chippie in Newport Pagnell High Street. Time and date? Oh stop humouring me, it’s not as if you are actually thinking of showing up. F*** you.

Anyway, top 3 by season:-

1950 FARINA (1), Fangio (2), Fagioli (3)
1951 FANGIO (1), Ascari (2), Gonzalez (3)
1952 ASCARI (1), Taruffi (3), Fischer (4)
1953 HAWTHORN (4), Villoresi (5), Vukovich (7)
1954 GONZALEZ (2), Trintignant (4), Kling (5)
1955 MOSS (2), Castellotti (3), Trintignant (4)
1956 COLLINS (3), Behra (4), Flaherty (5)
1957 MUSSO (3), Brooks (5), Gregory (6)
1958 BROOKS (3), Salvadori (4), Schell (6)
1959 BRABHAM (1), Hill P (4), Trintignant (5)
1960 McLAREN (2), Ireland (4), Gendebien (6)
1961 HILL P (1), Von Trips (2), Gurney (4)
1962 HILL G (1), Clark (2), Surtees (4)
1963 CLARK (1), Ginther (3), Surtees (4)
1964 SURTEES (1), Bandini (4), Ginther (5)
1965 STEWART (3), Gurney (4), Bandini (6)
1966 RINDT (3), Hulme (4), Parkes (8)
1967 HULME (1), Amon (5), Rodriguez (6)
1968 ICKX (4), Rodriguez (6), Siffert (7)
1969 BELTOISE (5), Courage (8), Siffert (9)
1970 REGAZZONI (3), Rodriguez (7), Amon (8)
1971 PETERSON (2), Cevert (3), Siffert (5)
1972 FITTIPALDI (1), Revson (5), Cevert (6)
1973 CEVERT (4), Revson (5), Reutemann (7)
1974 SCHECKTER (3), Lauda (4), Reutemann (6)
1975 LAUDA (1), Reutemann (3), Hunt (4)
1976 HUNT (1), Depailler (4), Andretti (6)
1977 ANDRETTI (3), Reutemann (4), Mass (6)
1978 REUTEMANN (3), Depailler (5), Watson (6)
1979 VILLENEUVE G (2), Jones (3), Laffite (4)
1980 JONES (1), Piquet (2), Laffite (4)
1981 PIQUET (1), Laffite (4), Prost (5)
1982 ROSBERG K (1), Pironi (2), Watson (3)
1983 PROST (2), Arnoux (3), Tambay (4)
1984 DE ANGELIS (3), Alboreto (4), Arnoux (6)
1985 ALBORETO (2), Senna (4), Mansell (6)
1986 MANSELL (2), Senna (4), Johansson (5)
1987 SENNA (3), Berger (5), Johansson (6)
1988 BERGER (3), Boutsen (4), Capelli (7)
1989 PATRESE (3), Boutsen (5), Nannini (6)
1990 BOUTSEN (6), Nannini (8), Alesi (9)
1991 ALESI (7), Modena (8), De Cesaris (9)
1992 SCHUMACHER M (3), Brundle (6), Hakkinen (8)
1993 HILL D (3), Brundle (7), Herbert (9)
1994 HAKKINEN (4), Barrichello (6), Brundle (7)
1995 COULTHARD (3), Herbert (4), Panis (8)
1996 VILLENEUVE J (2), Barrichello (8), Panis (9)
1997 FRENTZEN (2), Irvine (7), Fisichella (8)
1998 IRVINE (4), Wurz (8), Fisichella (9)
1999 SCHUMACHER R (6), Barrichello (7), Herbert (8)
2000 BARRICHELLO (4), Fisichella (6), Button (8)
2001 MONTOYA (6), Heidfeld (8), Trulli (9)
2002 RAIKKONEN (6), Button (7), Trulli (8)
2003 ALONSO (6), Trulli (8), Button (9)
2004 BUTTON (3), Trulli (6), Sato (8)
2005 FISICHELLA (5), Trulli (7), Webber (10)
2006 MASSA (3), Heidfeld (9), De La Rosa (11)
2007 HAMILTON (2), Heidfeld (5), Kubica (6)
2008 KUBICA (4), Heidfeld (6), Kovalainen (7)
2009 VETTEL (2), Webber (4), Rosberg N (7)
2010 WEBBER (3), Rosberg N (7), Sutil (11)
2011 ROSBERG N (7), Sutil (9), Petrov (10)
2012 GROSJEAN (8), Perez (10), Hulkenberg (11)
2013 HULKENBERG (10), Perez (11), Di Resta (12)
2014 RICCIARDO (3), Bottas (4), Perez (10)
2015 BOTTAS (5), Kvyat (7), Perez (9)
2016 VERSTAPPEN (5), Perez (7), Sainz (12)
2017 PEREZ (7), Ocon (8), Sainz (9)
2018 MAGNUSSEN (9), Sainz (10), Ocon (12)
2019 LECLERC (4), Sainz (6), Gasly (7)
2020 SAINZ (6), Albon (7), Norris (9)
2021 NORRIS (6), Gasly (9), Ocon (11)
2022 RUSSELL (4), Ocon (8), Gasly (14)
2023 PIASTRI (9), Stroll (10), Gasly (11)
 

Edited by Collombin, 26 November 2023 - 17:34.

[Zmeej]

Great post!

[PlatenGlass]

This differs from PAYR’s “No Red Bull” system (a name, incidentally, that doubles as excellent beverage consumption advice) in that I do not remove ineligible drivers’ race results and reallocate points accordingly, I leave race results as they are. 

 

Where do I find this?

[Beri]

Great work Collombin. Also a great name 

 

Where do I find this?

 

PAYR usually posts it in the main Grand Prix thread after the race. Could take a day or two, but he will eventually.

[PlatenGlass]

Probably should have its own thread rather than as an afterthought in a 97-page thread.

[PayasYouRace]

Where do I find this?

I just post the standings after each race. Final standings soon.

[Beri]

I just post the standings after each race. Final standings soon.

 

An idea after PlatenGlass' comment; is it possible that you start a thread with all the results per race? Perhaps add a graph to it showing the rise or decline per driver?

Its great stuff to discuss I reckon. 

[PayasYouRace]

I wasn’t doing it from the start of the season, and while I’m happy to spend 5 minutes or so of an evening doing the next results, I’m not going back to do it from scratch.

 

I’m not stopping anyone from running with it though.

[PayasYouRace]

Can I just add that I’m glad this thread isn’t about drivers molesting a perspiring Naomi Schiff in the paddock?

[eab]

First thing that stands out, is that none of the drivers managed to win this championship twice. Will take one ballsy **** to do so, I guess.

[SpaceHorseParty]

 

First thing that stands out, is that none of the drivers managed to win this championship twice. Will take one ballsy **** to do so, I guess.

 

[Collombin]

First thing that stands out, is that none of the drivers managed to win this championship twice. Will take one ballsy **** to do so, I guess.

Quite the opposite I suspect, as the most likely scenario is that of a female racer getting married and a surname change confusing the algorithm, treating her as two different people. But women gaining SWEATY-NADS is a whole different ball game.

[PayasYouRace]

Regazzoni’s 1970 title is rather impressive, entering a mere 8 of the 13 races that year. Anyone have a lower number of races and still winning this award?

[NotAPineapple]

Croydon snubbed again

Trophy presentation details for this year? Same venue as for the Cut and Shut awards, the chippie in Newport Pagnell High Street. Time and date? Oh stop humouring me, it’s not as if you are actually thinking of showing up. F*** you.

[Collombin]

Croydon snubbed again

Hardly. They understandably haven't even made a bid since hosting the awards in 2007 - and we all know what happened there.

[Dolph]

Regazzoni’s 1970 title is rather impressive, entering a mere 8 of the 13 races that year. Anyone have a lower number of races and still winning this award?

 

Farina, Fangio, Ascari, Gonzales 7

[Nemo1965]

Was there ever a Non-Mercedes F1 Title posted during their supreme reign?

[PayasYouRace]

Farina, Fangio, Ascari, Gonzales 7

 

*Glares at you*

 

You know what I meant.

[Collombin]

Was there ever a Non-Mercedes F1 Title posted during their supreme reign?

Was this forum around in 1955?

Anyway, that's PAYR's rival committee. Nothing to do with me.

[DS27]

And people say Hulk is no good because he never had a podium. He's a damn champion.

 

These should be the rules.

[Dolph]

*Glares at you*

 

You know what I meant.

 

 

I know, but I couldn't resist. Admit it, its an answer you would have given 

 

Anywho, I'd like to see this applied for WRC. We'd be bound to see some real crazy champions with a small participation percentage.

[PayasYouRace]

Let’s see. I won’t do the top three though.

Dirty SWEATY NADS:

1977 Sandro Munari (1)
1978 Marku Alen (1)
1979 Bjorn Waldegard (1)
1980 Walter Rohrl (1)
1981 Ari Vatanen (1)
1982 Michele Mouton (2)
1983 Hannu Mikkola (1)
1984 Stig Blomqvist (1)
1985 Timo Salonen (1)
1986 Juha Kankunnen (1)
1987 Miki Biasion (1)
1988 Alex Fiorio (3)
1989 Mikael Ericsson (4)
1990 Carlos Sainz (1)
1991 Didier Auriol (3)
1992 Francois Delecour (6)
1993 Colin McRae (5)
1994 Bruno Thiry (5)
1995 Kenneth Eriksson (3)
1996 Tommy Makinen (1)
1997 Piero Liatti (6)
1998 Richard Burns (6)
1999 Philippe Bugalski (7)
2000 Marcus Gronholm (1)
2001 Harri Rovanpera (5)
2002 Petter Solberg (2)
2003 Sebastien Loeb (2)
2004 Marko Martin (3)
2005 Toni Gardemeister (4)
2006 Mikko Hirvonen (3)
2007 Daniel Sordo (4)
2008 Jari-Matti Latvala (4)
2009 Henning Solberg (6)
2010 Sebastien Ogier (4)
2011 Mads Ostberg (6)
2012 Evgeny Norikov (6)
2013 Thierry Neuville (2)
2014 Andreas Mikkelsen (3)
2015 Kris Meeke (5)
2016 Hayden Paddon (4)
2017 Ott Tanak (3)
2018 Esapekka Lappi (5)
2019 Elfyn Evens (5)
2020 Kalle Rovanpera (5)
2021 Takamoto Katsuta (7)
2022 Craig Breen (7)
2023 Teemu Suninen (9)


Not a lot of repeat champions in the early days, so not much change there. But it definitely gets interesting later on. Though nice to see a female champion as early as 1982. Mikael Ericsson did a mere 3 rallies in 1989. Bugalski 4 in the 2 litre car in 1999. Interesting that the lowest real life was Suninen this year, which speaks to the quality of the field in current rallying.

I think I’ll want to see Indycar next.

PS I made the mistake of typing this up on my iPad. Autocorrect played havoc with most of the drivers’ names.

[Glengavel]

14 drivers simultaneously won the WC and SWEATY-NADS between 1951 and 1982, and none since. What does that tell you?

[PayasYouRace]

14 drivers simultaneously won the WC and SWEATY-NADS between 1951 and 1982, and none since. What does that tell you?

That the strength at the top of the field is deeper and longer lasting now that it used to be, so it’s harder for a driver to have a random breakout season without already having shown excellent results earlier on.

[Dolph]

Nice, Payas, thanks

[Glengavel]

That the strength at the top of the field is deeper and longer lasting now that it used to be, so it’s harder for a driver to have a random breakout season without already having shown excellent results earlier on.

 

I suppose drivers stopped retiring (or dying) quite so often.

[BerniesDad]

Great series. Great OP. Thanks.

And yes, it shows that drivers don't die with the frequency that they used to.

(..and even back then they only died once?)

[Primo]

Thread   
Magnussen! 

[iSpeedFreak]

I must admit i clicked on this page after reading the title expecting to find something rather different     

[eab]

Ever considered leaving the 'Speed' in your username out?  ​