694 replies to this topic

[jcbc3]

Loved these in the day 

 

[FLB]

Logano winning this would be the most... I don't know what, but it would be the most.

Edited by FLB, 10 November 2024 - 23:15.

[jcbc3]

Most people here know what I want. Fingers, toes and legs, crossed so hard!

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Haven't watched any race this season, what's the most Newman outcome this season?

[jonpollak]

You’re walking this. !!!!
Jp

[jonpollak]

Haven't watched any race this season, what's the most Newman outcome this season?

Great question !!!
REDDICK
Jp

[jcbc3]

No jinx'es!!!!!

 

You’re walking this. !!!!
Jp

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Great question !!!
REDDICK
Jp

Looks like the top 3 fight needs to go terribly wrong for this to happen.  Fingers crossed...

[OvDrone]

Haven't watched any race this season, what's the most Newman outcome this season?

Logano has a lower season points standing and average finishing order than Newman had in 2014.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

And again the top 4 in the "playoffs" are all running near the top.  This just feels so statistically improbable to keep happening again and again, especially on a track that's so unique and different from most of the schedule.

[OvDrone]

Penske on Penske violence incoming.

[jcbc3]

I approve

[OvDrone]

Luck Fogano.

[Jim Thurman]

And again the top 4 in the "playoffs" are all running near the top.  This just feels so statistically improbable to keep happening again and again, especially on a track that's so unique and different from most of the schedule.

As it was for Xfinity and trucks. 

 

It's not improbable when they strongly suggest the other drivers get out of the way. That couldn't have been more obvious at Homestead the year it was between Stewart and Edwards. Other cars literally moved out of the groove and would let those two past. It was like two cars racing, and the rest just circulating around.

[FLB]

I'm literally laughing my ass off     

[red stick]

Penske!

[nickp]

nascar would have understood the message and returned to the points system it was in until 2003

[Dmitriy_Guller]

As it was for Xfinity and trucks. 

 

It's not improbable when they strongly suggest the other drivers get out of the way. That couldn't have been more obvious at Homestead the year it was between Stewart and Edwards. Other cars literally moved out of the groove and would let those two past. It was like two cars racing, and the rest just circulating around.

I don't think it's as simple as that.  The other 36 cars don't need to just get out of the way, they need to stay out of the way the whole race.  That seems rather difficult to coordinate, because if you're one of those 36 cars not in contention, and you drive part throttle to make sure you're not in contention during the race, what's to stop one of those other 35 cars from lifting a little less?  Not blocking a faster car is easy, staying behind a slower car requires far more effort.

[John B]

Appropriate for Allison's memory that it came down to cars number 22 and 12....

Unbelievably opportunistic team that finds a way, like 2018. Logano has mastered restarts for many years and that made the difference again.

NASCAR is probably glad Bell fell back at the end or his winning would have been a big talking point.

Pace car was classic, looked like surprisingly little damage considering fixing the barrels required a red flag?

[ARTGP]

Paying my respects to Fedex and Denny Hamlin.

 

oh and...go sliced bread! 

[Secretariat]

The Curse of Matt Kenseth is strong. Logano winning is exactly what's possible and expected in a stick and ball playoff format. It is interesting seeing some of the takes on the internet. 

[jcbc3]

As the great Alain Prost said after the season Senna bacame WDC even if Prost outscored him: "I knew the rules going into the season. Ayrton won".

[OvDrone]

I am not upset at Logano or his team whatsoever. Fair play to them.

The format has run its course though. 17th average finishing position Champ blows Newman’14 out of the water.

This is unsustainable.

Edited by OvDrone, 11 November 2024 - 12:46.

[jcbc3]

It could be because race wins in the regular season are more important than boring points collection? Drivers and teams running to the rules set forth.

[OvDrone]

With this format, there is an exponential severe decrease in reasons for spending so much of your limited time on this Earth to watch the whole too long 36 race season when literally the last stages in the last 2 or so races matter ultimately anyway.

How can you justify such a product ? Sporting or entertainment.

Why waste your time this way ?

[Silverstone96]

With this format, there is an exponential severe decrease in reasons for spending so much of your limited time on this Earth to watch the whole too long 36 race season when literally the last stages in the last 2 or so races matter ultimately anyway.

How can you justify such a product ? Sporting or entertainment.

Why waste your time this way ?

I came to the same conclusion with nascar a year ago and haven’t watched a race since.

It’s a mess and whilst they continue to use Phoenix as the final venue Penske will keep collecting titles

[jcbc3]

With this format, there is an exponential severe decrease in reasons for spending so much of your limited time on this Earth to watch the whole too long 36 race season when literally the last stages in the last 2 or so races matter ultimately anyway.

How can you justify such a product ? Sporting or entertainment.

Why waste your time this way ?

 

That is an argument I can get behind. 

[OvDrone]

It's not one I've ever wanted to make as I damn well love this sport. 

[B Squared]

From day one of the Chase format, at that time limited to 10 cars, the eliminated teams and drivers should have parked their cars and said, "see you next year."

[Jim Thurman]

I don't think it's as simple as that.  The other 36 cars don't need to just get out of the way, they need to stay out of the way the whole race.  That seems rather difficult to coordinate, because if you're one of those 36 cars not in contention, and you drive part throttle to make sure you're not in contention during the race, what's to stop one of those other 35 cars from lifting a little less?  Not blocking a faster car is easy, staying behind a slower car requires far more effort.

Oh, I concur completely with what you're getting at. I was just mentioning how ridiculous it was the year of Stewart-Edwards at Homestead. They did stay out of the way pretty much the whole race.

 

It looked like the old days when you'd see the Southern 500 from Darlington, with the independent drivers trundling around the bottom of the track, well off the pace of the leaders and many, many laps down, just hoping to finish as far up as possible with as little wear and tear on their equipment as possible.

[Jim Thurman]

NBC wanted a reality show format, with someone (or more) eliminated each week, leading to a "showdown."

Thus...

 

When these TV folks sit down to negotiate a deal with a sports league, and offer all these "suggestions" on how to improve the sport, I wish someone from a sports league would have the guts to say: "And how many new shows do you premier each year? ...and how many do you cancel?", adding "It doesn't sound like you even know your own business, let alone ours."

 

"How about you concentrate on your business, and we'll concentrate on ours."

[Dmitriy_Guller]

With this format, there is an exponential severe decrease in reasons for spending so much of your limited time on this Earth to watch the whole too long 36 race season when literally the last stages in the last 2 or so races matter ultimately anyway.

How can you justify such a product ? Sporting or entertainment.

Why waste your time this way ?

This seems so obvious to me, so I'm starting to question my sanity as to why it's not obvious to NASCAR.  You've got 36 races you need people to watch, how does it make sense to make a few races more interesting at the expense of making most races meaningless?  The irony is that I'm not even sure the last races are that interesting, because there is no story to be invested in when you don't pay attention to the whole season.  Who cares which driver wins the championship that means nothing?

[OvDrone]

This seems so obvious to me, so I'm starting to question my sanity as to why it's not obvious to NASCAR.  You've got 36 races you need people to watch, how does it make sense to make a few races more interesting at the expense of making most races meaningless?  The irony is that I'm not even sure the last races are that interesting, because there is no story to be invested in when you don't pay attention to the whole season.  Who cares which driver wins the championship that means nothing?

Yeah, agreed completely. I'd much rather be invested in a season long battle between Bell and Reddick with Elliott, Byron and an infuriatingly inconsistent Larson biting at their heels.

Remember, if things would be chill with the points system, we'd have a 5, nearly 6 driver battle royal at Homestead for 2019. 

[John B]

And that would be remembered, like Atlanta 1992 when multiple drivers had a chance. Now it's contrived every year, so how many recent are truly memorable? It's like the Daytona 500 making crash finishes the norm, so you don't get iconic moments like 1979 or the Petty/Pearson crash at the line. I can barely remember anyone supporting the format, and the TV ratings and buzz certainly aren't the equivalent of the super bowl or NCAA final 4 basketball (which the bracket seems like an attempt to copy).
What you would think would go without saying is that racing has variables that the stick and ball sports NASCAR execs were using this week to justify the format don't have, starting with tracks favoring teams and random cautions/restarts.

Logano certainly benefited this year, but that balances 2015 when they had the best season and swept a chase round,yet missed the final 4. Like Harvick in 2020

Edited by John B, 11 November 2024 - 23:56.

[Danicafreak]

NASCAR will make changes, I am sure. They are not shy about tweaking things, Lets hope they get better. Raise the cutoff for championship contention to 20th in points or something.

[Silverstone96]

NASCAR will make changes, I am sure. They are not shy about tweaking things, Lets hope they get better. Raise the cutoff for championship contention to 20th in points or something.

Yep or even extend it to the top 40 drivers and maybe even increase the playoffs to 36 races….

[Danicafreak]

Yep or even extend it to the top 40 drivers and maybe even increase the playoffs to 36 races….

 

SS96 - so much agree!!!!

 

If they are wedded to keeping the playoffs raising cut off needs to happen and increasing the playoff races would help as well.

[Lemnpiper]

Oh, I concur completely with what you're getting at. I was just mentioning how ridiculous it was the year of Stewart-Edwards at Homestead. They did stay out of the way pretty much the whole race.

 

It looked like the old days when you'd see the Southern 500 from Darlington, with the independent drivers trundling around the bottom of the track, well off the pace of the leaders and many, many laps down, just hoping to finish as far up as possible with as little wear and tear on their equipment as possible.

 

 

   Plus   the fragility of the cars  then   often meant   just by doin that  you could get a higher finishing spot ( and those points)  trundling around  . Look how close James Hylton  came to winning a championship ( though he  did trundle around a little faster than most.) Marcis& Cecil Gordon  were  others  who did well staying on the track with not a top speed car.   Often year  end   points payouts keep smaller teams  afloat for the next year.

Edited by Lemnpiper, 14 November 2024 - 00:08.

[John B]

On the Harvick show Logano said NASCAR threatened to suspend anyone involved with manipulation from the Daytona 500. Does that mean 30+teams will be looking using backup drivers in February lol....

[FLB]

On the Harvick show Logano said NASCAR threatened to suspend anyone involved with manipulation from the Daytona 500. Does that mean 30+teams will be looking using backup drivers in February lol....

It all depends on the definition of 'manipulation'. RFK were using David Ragan in a third car for drafting and fuel mileage at Daytona this year. 

 

...

 

 

'I'll take Manipulation vs. Strategy for 500, Alex'

Edited by FLB, 16 November 2024 - 16:39.

[FLB]

This out of left field: Busch set to make USAC midget debut | RACER

[jonpollak]

On the Harvick show Logano said NASCAR threatened to suspend anyone involved with manipulation from the Daytona 500. Does that mean 30+teams will be looking using backup drivers in February lol....

I’m available!
Jp

[John B]

It all depends on the definition of 'manipulation'. RFK were using David Ragan in a third car for drafting and fuel mileage at Daytona this year.

...


'I'll take Manipulation vs. Strategy for 500, Alex'

I was actually thinking of Phoenix, and penalizing most of the field for not racing the title contenders;) Some rumors of format changes for next year, but we'll see if anything comes of them.

[Jim Thurman]

This out of left field: Busch set to make USAC midget debut | RACER

I was hoping to attend that race, but right now, it is looking like a washout.

[August]

Some rumors of format changes for next year, but we'll see if anything comes of them.

Probably as long as NBC is broadcasting the final races of the season (until 2031 at least), the playoffs will stay.

 

What I've heard of possible changes is the regular season champion might automatically get into the round of 8 and the runner-up into the round of 12. That doesn't exactly address the issues arising from this year's playoffs. You can still have and amazing season and miss the Championship 4 (like Larson this year), and you can still have a poor regular season and drive your way into the championship (like Logano this year).