76 replies to this topic

[PayasYouRace]

Its not about every 5 seconds. Its about when I find the action on screen not engaging I take a recap of where everyone stands and whos making what kind of progress, instead or relying on someones elses idea when that information should be made available to me. I decide when to read the info, not someone else.

 

Imagine Alonso makes a pitstop. Under your conditions I'd be given the info how long his stop was and where he came out and that's about it. But now I can follow is he passing the people he came out behind or not. If Hamilton is to stop next I know if he is gonna come out ahead or behind Alonso, instead of being totally clueless about it. I can then understand he is not coming into pit, because he'd just fall behind Fernando anyway, so it makes sense for him to extend his stint and hope for a virtual safety car. Most all of this information would be lost with your version and I'd be at the end of the race scratching my head why Hamilton didn't come in to cover Alonso. I can read the race.

Actually one thing the timing tower does real badly is show how pit stop strategies might be playing out. Rather than always showing the gaps, either relative to to the leader, it would be more useful in following the race if it showed the number of pit stops and where the pit stop delta would put drivers of interest were they to stop.

[IrvTheSwerve]

IMO something that they really don’t need, in order to declutter the timing tower a bit, are the crappy tiny team logos next to each driver’s name.

[Ali623]

IMO something that they really don’t need, in order to declutter the timing tower a bit, are the crappy tiny team logos next to each driver’s name.

 

The problem with the previous iteration of this (coloured bars representing team colour) was that you ended up with things like several shades of blue for RB, AT, Williams etc. It also wasn't very accessible, if you were colour-blind for example. The logo icons have their own issues but are still a better solution.

[DW46]

Top 6 in yellow boxes with a gap update once per lap for nostalgic reasons is a joy. There a great vid of a 60’s race with modern graphics and intro on YouTube. Worth a watch.

[Risil]

IMO something that they really don’t need, in order to declutter the timing tower a bit, are the crappy tiny team logos next to each driver’s name.

But how would I comment every race that the Williams logo looks like Microsoft Word

[IrvTheSwerve]

The problem with the previous iteration of this (coloured bars representing team colour) was that you ended up with things like several shades of blue for RB, AT, Williams etc. It also wasn't very accessible, if you were colour-blind for example. The logo icons have their own issues but are still a better solution.

I just don’t think they’re needed. They’re barely legible anyway and we don’t need a reminder of who is driving for what team on a constant basis. You could argue it’s useful for newer/casual fans, but they probably don’t know what most of the team logos are anyway.

[PayasYouRace]

The problem with the previous iteration of this (coloured bars representing team colour) was that you ended up with things like several shades of blue for RB, AT, Williams etc. It also wasn't very accessible, if you were colour-blind for example. The logo icons have their own issues but are still a better solution.

Why are they needed at all? Just don’t waste screen space with something so unnecessary.

[Cornholio]

Good topic and discussion and I can see both viewpoints, but personally I do like it, there's plenty of things I don't like about modern F1 (relative to x number of decades ago) but I do like having that live info to hand, seeing the gaps going up and down, who might be dropping down/coming up the order out of view of the cameras.

 

Thinking of Brazil 2008 as an example. It's been a while since I re-watched but from memory, on the UK broadcast at least we had no information between Brundle declaring Glock's sector times as "fine", and "IS THAT GLOCK?!?". I guess you could argue a) that added to the drama and made an iconic moment, and b) it was a failure of the director to be more on top of what Hamilton and Glock were doing on their final laps, rather than just showing Massa's victory lap and some Hamilton onboards, but personally anyway I'd have appreciated that info to see what was happening in real time.

 

Not F1 but the 2011 Indy 500 is another example. That did have live sector timing (at least on the broadcast I have), but on a horizontal ticker that slowly cycled through 33 cars, and the scale of Wheldon's late race charge wasn't really apparent till after Hildebrand hit the wall, again a live timing tower would have made the end of that one more absorbing IMO.

[noikeee]

I think the team colors worked better than the team logos, point taken on too many colours being similar and color blind people, but I think it was more satisfying and justifiable to have something you can quickly glance at and see where are the 2 silver or red cars, rather than the bigger team logos that occupy a lot more space. Maybe the switch to the logos was also motivated by teams wanting to promote/add value to their branding.

Also don't forget F1 direction is trying to cater for everyone, from us veterans that have been watching this for 30 years, to 7 year old kids and people randomly zapping through TV channels. Not everyone looks at TV and instantly sees where "LEC" and "SAI" are and quickly understands what's happening to Ferrari. If you're a 7 year old you just want to know where's the red cars. They're trying to breed familiarity and put more shiny things on screens.

Edited by noikeee, 29 December 2023 - 16:01.

[cbo]

I would prefer an option for a screen showing the race with no graphics at all and watch the data on timing, pitstops, tires etc. on my tablet or a second TV-screen.

[Stephane]

Actually one thing the timing tower does real badly is show how pit stop strategies might be playing out. Rather than always showing the gaps, either relative to to the leader, it would be more useful in following the race if it showed the number of pit stops and where the pit stop delta would put drivers of interest were they to stop.

 

What i'd really want is tyre age and type AND if they need (by the rules) one more stop or not.

 

Where they could end up, i'm ok with calculating myself, and it'd take too much space anyway.

 

 

I also don't need the gaps in thousandth of a second on the tower, tenth is enough.

[noikeee]

What i'd really want is tyre age and type AND if they need (by the rules) one more stop or not.

Where they could end up, i'm ok with calculating myself, and it'd take too much space anyway.


I also don't need the gaps in thousandth of a second on the tower, tenth is enough.

I agree gaps by the tenth is more than enough, that is a good idea.

Not sure on pitstop info although I often agree it's confusing who has pitted and who wasn't. It needs to be something super super simple if it is shoved in our faces all race long. Maybe at most a tiny dot in front of the drivers name for each pitstop they've made, and even that could be annoying.

[Gravelngrass]

If Motogp now can and F1 in the 80s could present the viewer a gap time every lap or sector for the relevant laps (when one car is getting close to the other), why can’t F1 do it now (in an exciting, relevant way)? That’s the most important and exciting piece of info they can give…

[Ali623]

I just don’t think they’re needed. They’re barely legible anyway and we don’t need a reminder of who is driving for what team on a constant basis. You could argue it’s useful for newer/casual fans, but they probably don’t know what most of the team logos are anyway.

 

 

Why are they needed at all? Just don’t waste screen space with something so unnecessary.

 

 

I think the team colors worked better than the team logos, point taken on too many colours being similar and color blind people, but I think it was more satisfying and justifiable to have something you can quickly glance at and see where are the 2 silver or red cars, rather than the bigger team logos that occupy a lot more space. Maybe the switch to the logos was also motivated by teams wanting to promote/add value to their branding.

Also don't forget F1 direction is trying to cater for everyone, from us veterans that have been watching this for 30 years, to 7 year old kids and people randomly zapping through TV channels. Not everyone looks at TV and instantly sees where "LEC" and "SAI" are and quickly understands what's happening to Ferrari. If you're a 7 year old you just want to know where's the red cars. They're trying to breed familiarity and put more shiny things on screens.

 

I personally like the team logo's, they're really just an additional bit of info to identify who's who on the timing tower at a glance. Just having the three letter name abbreviation would make it slightly more awkward to work out the order quickly, and as mentioned above, not ideal for newer fans.  Also F1 is a very constructor-based motorsport, team identification is far more important than say some spec series. 

 

Interesting point on team branding, hadn't thought of that as another reason for showing the logos - could also be the case though.

[loki]

This is the most "okay, boomer" OP I've seen in a while.

 

OK, Boomer…

[IrvTheSwerve]

I personally like the team logo's, they're really just an additional bit of info to identify who's who on the timing tower at a glance. Just having the three letter name abbreviation would make it slightly more awkward to work out the order quickly, and as mentioned above, not ideal for newer fans.  Also F1 is a very constructor-based motorsport, team identification is far more important than say some spec series. 

 

Interesting point on team branding, hadn't thought of that as another reason for showing the logos - could also be the case though.

 

They could do it in a far better way, by having some form of faded logo on the side and behind the driver name or something...rather than taking a relatively big amount of space up to stick a blurry Alpha Tauri logo in, which is hard to see even as a die-hard fan. 

[IrvTheSwerve]

OK, Boomer…

 

Isn't the 'ok boomer' thing like 5 years out of date? Anyway, it's below this forum's kind of discussion.

[Heyli]

Isn't the 'ok boomer' thing like 5 years out of date? Anyway, it's below this forum's kind of discussion.

Kind of ironic that the ok boomer comment would go out of date!

[SenorSjon]

I just don’t think they’re needed. They’re barely legible anyway and we don’t need a reminder of who is driving for what team on a constant basis. You could argue it’s useful for newer/casual fans, but they probably don’t know what most of the team logos are anyway.

Try reading Red Bull team radio's with dark blue on black. That is the place to use team logos.

[RacingFan10]

The current timing tower is better than almost permanently showing the list of drivers and the stops of each one.

 

Edited by RacingFan10, 30 December 2023 - 14:51.

[Heyli]

I actually enjoy watching the live timing as you can decide yourself which battles to follow. And then I try to see who has the good exit, where the overtakes can happen. I dont think it takes away any excitement at all, it's just a different kind of excitement I guess. For me at least.

[AustinF1]

Hard disgree. I find it's a big improvement.

You can watch the on-screen action and easily ignore the timing tower if you think its spoiling.

Or you can follow parallel battles on-screen and off-screen by watching the action and monitoring the timing tower.

Yeah I don't always agree with how the info is presented, but I like the level of information we get now. I use it when I want, and ignore it and focus on the cars on screen when I want, watch onboards on my laptop, etc. It's the best way to really see how the GP is playing out imho. Without it we'd be mostly in the dark about battles farther down the grid, too. Now we can follow them easily, even when those cars aren't on the screen, which is most of the time.

Edited by AustinF1, 30 December 2023 - 18:35.

[kumo7]

The current timing tower is better than almost permanently showing the list of drivers and the stops of each one.

This a a good image of the timing tower, when a 27 inch TV was a large screen at home. Now we could watch races on 27 inch computermonitor which is an entirely different setup.

I think three issues are tangled here:
Screen size at home and if it is a tv;
If you follow ‘only’ timing screen plus comments;
Classic sport TV watching.

On track like Spa or Suzuka, the track is so large that I saw only cars flying by 44 times in one and a half hour. Amazing, but not a full experience. Going to the track with internet access live timing gave me apparently more.

The clip on 2008 Spa has this moment when Kimi loses his car completely, which is entirely not visible on timing screen, as the timing on F1.com has these incomprehensible position indication which the fourth becomes the first for five seconds and then back to the fourth. Can’t understand anything unless you have images showing what is going on.

When we see sporting actions like famous Abudhabi Ham Max FIA Wolff Christian battle, I rather ignore timing completely, and even hoped to see the stewards in the tower!

But, in the mid race procession boring tyre change and all that, pls. give me the timing screen (an improved one with no hiccups) , and I ask for a two screens broadcasting which  F1 TV will not provide it… so my current choice? The Computer screens, which I use three screens for work daily, there where I have image timing and chat open!

Edited by kumo7, 01 January 2024 - 04:52.

[1player]

I never really realized this until now, but this more or less coincides with me watching the race without live-timing.

During the early 2010s, I watched every race with the notebook on my lap, probably watching it more, than the actual TV screen.

During recent years, I gave up that habit, as I can pretty much follow what is going on from the broadcast alone
Sometimes I check the timings after the race, but only for tiny details or to get exact gaps for close situations. But now I prefer to focus on the broadcast, rather than distract myself with the laptop and I still get a very good overall picture about the race.

Ha, I have the opposite problem. I feel without timing I would concentrate on the broadcast, while now I'm glued watching the times because they tell something not even the commentators might notice, or because the broadcaster decide to focus on a car I do not care about — cue showing Max Verstappen crossing the finish line when there is an exciting battle behind.

I would probably enjoy it more living in the ignorance and just watching the damn cars, instead of numbers go up and down. Perhaps the timing tower excuses the broadcaster doing a bad job — without it, they would have to get a decent TV director to focus on the important and exciting stuff, not fans and zooming on sponsor boards.

[Stephane]

Nah, we just wouldn't know we miss battles without the tower.

[sketchy2001]

Have a love/hate relationship with the tower.

 

I find seeing driver gaps a key part of my viewing process, given the apparent inability of the directors to identify points of interest in the race!

 

All the other data is 'fluff' (imo) that should be shown in addition, if/when relevant, and should not replace/obscure gap data.

 

Also, what is the deal with qualifying?  Why do drivers go to the top of the tower when they leave pits for the first time?  I thought there was a rule that in the case that two or more drivers fail to set a time then their positions are determined by distance travelled (or something like that) so surely the 1st driver out of the pits should remain at the top of the tower until their time is bettered? 

[Bleu]

 

Also, what is the deal with qualifying?  Why do drivers go to the top of the tower when they leave pits for the first time?  I thought there was a rule that in the case that two or more drivers fail to set a time then their positions are determined by distance travelled (or something like that) so surely the 1st driver out of the pits should remain at the top of the tower until their time is bettered? 

 

For drivers who don't set a time the order is:

1. Drivers who started a hot lap

2. Drivers who exited the pits and didn't start a lap

3. Drivers who didn't exit the pits

 

Within those groups, the previous session determines the order (FP3 in Q1, Q1 in Q2 and Q2 in Q3).

 

I believe driver who completes a lap but gets lap deleted belongs to group 1.