49 replies to this topic

[FlyingSaucer]

Firstly, I don't know if this is the right place for a question like this - but I'm sure that the people I want to reach and hear opinions are here, so I believe the Nostalgia Forum is the right spot for it.

 

Well, as we are getting closer and closer to the end of the year, now comes the moment of reflection, on what the future may bring us.

 

My question is mainly focused on what the future of Vintage Automotive Sports Journalism will be. As a journalist and someone who is passionate about the 60s and 70s era, what I see with with each passing year is that the audience that is interested in this kind of stuff becomes more and more restricted. Even though I'm young (well, I only have 24!) I understand that much of the public that is interested in this kind of topics is getting older, without having a sufficient number of interested people who can refresh/replenish these numbers.

 

We live in a time of immediacy, where people want to know only whats in happening now - and probably things that in a few minutes will be outdated by other new facts. On the other hand, the history is timeless; perhaps that's why it is neglected by most people today. I can see this in specialized motorsport magazines, where special reports about the past (and when I talk about the past, I expect at least something that happened 15 years ago) are increasingly rare. 

 

I recognize that this also happens due to the immediacy of everyday life. In current journalism, 'everything is for yesterday' and you are always late. But anyone who has ever written a report or book about a race that happened 60 or 70 years ago knows that this kind of thing is a time-consuming process – researching the material is a headache (when it´s not locked behind paywalls); finding the copyright owners of images from the time is another; and the weeks go by, something that doesn't exist in a modern newsroom.

 

So, I don't know if in 15 or 20 years there will be more than a handful of people interested in knowing what the Gordon Bennetts were, the meaningfulness of the 1914 French GP, the importance of Brooklands (ye, that topic here kkkkk) or even who Maurice Trintignant, Lorenzo Bandini, Willy Mairesse and many other pilots from the 60s were (P.S. sry for mixing up the eras, but is just to give examples of what I´m trying to explain).

 

So I'd like to hear everyone's opinion - I know some journalists come to this blog to look up information on certain topics, so I'd love to hear their opinion as well. 

 

[E1pix]

I’m not really awake yet but saw your post.

All I have now is to say it’s very intriguing, and I’m glad you asked.

I also find it refreshing that someone your age is showing such profound interest in the era of my youth, a welcome sickness that’s lasted me 60 years now — and will never fade. Thank You.

I do have some photographs that start in 1975. If they can help whatever direction you’re going, I’d be happy to donate usages if it helps.

[Sterzo]

This is probably an unhelpful reply, but I'm not sure your assumption is true. Yes, of course, the "peak nostalgia" period shifts forwards with the passing of time (and people). But is the underlying interest in racing history any weaker now than in the past? I see no evidence for that.

 

Admittedly, the sample of people I've known is the square root of not a lot. But some in the nineteen sixties cared only about current racing, and some today, far younger than me, search French archive websites for material on the Gordon Bennett.

[10kDA]

Sometimes if you have an audience of one, it's enough. Often I research the so-called Golden Age of Air Racing in the US, +/- 1928-1939, for certain projects I'm working on. Period reports are out there but can be hard to find these days. Period pics other than some which are well-known can be harder to locate. Some Av historians consolidate information in comprehensive and accurate manner and I thank them for their care and efforts. I can cross-ref what they have done with period reports and can see we've come across the same references. But some recent and current automotive writing on subjects of the past often seems to have a great deal of the writers' personalities injected and as such become opinion pieces more than accurate accounting of events. I've been around long enough to have been there when some of these events took place and the current writers often reproduce their own misperceptions that, as commonly happens, become consensually "true" thanks to the perceived authority of internet content. For example - See practically any internet post re: Shelby turbine cars at Indianapolis. My opinion is that you as a journalist should make every effort to generate accurate content viewed not from the lens of the Now but with an acknowledgement of what happened then, what had happened before, and what has happened since, without projecting current values onto an event bound by its own time. Congratulations and best wishes in your pursuit. It's exciting and encouraging that you, at your age, are acting upon your interests.

[68targa]

An interesting question, however I feel you are being too pessimistic. The proliferation of vintage and historic events breeds interest from modern generations and some will,I am sure, want to learn more of the history and the same goes for modern F1 watchers - most won't care but a small proportion will want to learn more.  This has been so with most generations.  It seems to me that the thirst for knowledge is greater now than ever.   I can't speak for writers but there appears to be much more opportunity for research now than in pre-internet days.

 

Like vinyl LPs and printed books they will always be wanted by someone.

[john aston]

There are no grounds for pessimism , apart from in OP;s case , the imminent trauma of reaching 25.

 

We are more inclined to look backwards than ever before, and I suspect  the so called culture wars have attracted many to explore what they imagine were the simpler, more straightforward times of the past. - whether in popular music , motor sport, fashion or drama. The irony is that we now look back  as much as we look forward but the past times we are tempted to wallow in looked only to the future .

 

Historic motor sport has gone from  niche novelty races to mainstream ,and Goodwood is the second biggest event after the GP in England . And yes, its past is a carefully curated temporal resto-mod, but the interest in cars and drivers of past eras is immense . Look at the Ford v Ferrari film - I thought it was awful in places , but watchable entertainment - and the weird thing is that you can now find lots of people on line bleating how Ken Miles had been robbed of his rightful victory etc - but I suspect very few of the Ken fans had even heard of him before the damn film....    

[ensign14]

These things can come around in circles.  Ten years ago who would have cared that Darwen drew 5–5 with the Old Etonians in the quarter-final 1878–79 FA Cup?  Yet a couple of years back Netflix or someone made an entire series about it.

 

Goodwood seems to get more rammed every year, the London to Brighton attracts more entrants now than ever before.  To some extent there is a rising tide of historical interest carrying all minority interest boats with it.  Just that as a proportion the share seems to be smaller.  And that's just because more history has happened.

[E1pix]

I read the opening post as showing *far more* enthusiasm than pessimism.

There’s no question that our circle here has vastly diminished over the years, and they certainly haven’t been replaced by younger people. This thread is quite rare hereabouts, and I for one would love the opening replacement theories to be proven wrong.

[Bob Riebe]

One thing that drove Auto Sport enthusiasm in the U.S. was Make vs. Make; win on Sunday , sell on Monday.

That brought fans to races , especially vintage races.

 

The manufacturers were building cars to beat the other guys, no asinine rules to punish  teams that read the rules the best, and made a product that was better than the other guy.

 

Even as equivalency rules started to poison the well, into the early turn of the Century, such Make vs. Make ideology existed.

That is gone, dudes for whom it determined their continued, and interestin the sport,  are dying off.

Few in the new generations care.

 

The hero worshipping of drivers is a newbie ; NASCAR lives by it as their cars are a farce, ditto for Indy Cars.

The Semi-pro racers are the persons who kept road racing alive in the late seventies and early eighties.

The Agors, Topes, Nichters , Shafers how many of them are even known to exist by young racing fans.

 

If you want to see what may happen to Vintage Motor Sports, have a look at what happened to boat racing after the nineties.

On the few web sites that cater to it,  with few exceptions, it is the old racers, who are dying off that keep the fact that it once existed alive.

 

Nowadays tell some dude to have the Kniffer Bearing or Johnson Rod on his car checked and he will probably think you are serious.

[DCapps]

An interesting question to which I have considered a great many possible responses.

Perhaps the best advice is just (insert the Great Australian Adjective -- hint, it begins with an "F" -- here) do and let things fall wherever they may.

Then again, I'm a historian and not a journalist.

Passion is wonderful, but a passion for knowledge is better.

Journalists and Historians have an interesting relationship in many facets of how the past is considered.

Archival materials and the other records that journalists leave us are how we study and interpret the past. And, study and rethink that past, time and time again.

That History is still a highly toxic subject during the longe durée of the Culture Wars includes even such topics within that realm such as motor sport.

One need only spend time here to see that confirmed.

Personally, I have long thought that the history of motor sport in general and in no end of particular instance a real mess.

In great part thanks to sloppy, careless journalism. To put it mildly...

At any rate, TNF has managed to somehow stagger into its 25th year of existence, although its seems that its residents are usually thrice that in age.

Go back into the archives -- The Wayback Machine as Mr. Peabody called it (and from whom Archives.org got the idea) -- here and see the level of research that ended up in no end of threads and have at it.

Again, Do, no try, Do. I think Yoda said that...

[Derwent Motorsport]

I think there are many folk who are interested in older racing and rallying who were not old enough (or born) to have seen it in their heyday.  If you think that the Goodwood cut off is 66, a 20 year old spectator then is now 77 and most who watch in the 50s and 60s are much older. Look at the ages of people who go to Goodwood, the average age will be much lower and most will not have seen the cars in their prime.

The same with rallying.  The recent Roger Albert Clark Rally with the Stratos and Escorts attached spectators who never saw them in the 70s.  That event got far more spectators and live streams than current British Championship rounds and likely WRC events. 

Edited by Derwent Motorsport, 29 December 2023 - 10:23.

[Nick Planas]

I think there are many folk who are interested in older racing and rallying who were not old enough (or born) to have seen it in their heyday.  If you think that the Goodwood cut off is 66, a 20 year old spectator then is now 57 and most who watch in the 50s and 60s are much older. Look at the ages of people who go to Goodwood, the average age will be much lower and most will not have seen the cars in their prime.

Very true. My daughter and son-in-law are enthusiastic regulars at Goodwood; she was born the year Prost won his second championship, and he works for a specialist supplier of carbon fibre products to the motor sport industry... 

[RS2000]

I saw the Ferrari film yesterday in Telford - in a totally full Odeon cinema of almost entirely young people. I found that seriously weird.

I wondered if anyone other than me knew that Peter Collins (portrayed in the film with amazingly accurate clothing, even down to the multi coloured woollen bobble hat) was from not far down the A442.

[Dick Dastardly]

If you think that the Goodwood cut off is 66, a 20 year old spectator then is now 57 and most who watch in the 50s and 60s are much older. 

A 20 year old spectator in 66 would be 77 now......anybody born in 66 would be 57 now. 

[Stephen W]

As a journalist you have limitations put on you by your editor and/or sub-editor. The dreaded word-count does somewhat limit what you can write. 

 

As an historian the limitations tend to be set by the individual themselves rather than an 'outside' influence. 

 

Trying to combine the two is difficult. One magazine that I write for suddenly just wanted photos for the Historice events. The don't tend to carry what I would call a report on historice events but more of a photo montage. 

 

This year's British GP at Silverstone set record attendance figures over its duration. Whilst the figures for MotoGP seemed to be down on those from previous years. Silverstone's rather odd ticketing system does seem to inhibit attendance on the practice days which may well have impacted the MotoGP figures.

 

Encouraging young blood into various aspects of Motorsport is a struggle, you only have to look at the make-up of club committees to see this. 

 

Whilst the interest in watching Historic Motorsport events by the younger generations is there the question of whether any of them would be interested in writing about it is a moot point.  

[Derwent Motorsport]

A 20 year old spectator in 66 would be 77 now......anybody born in 66 would be 57 now. 

Yes indeed, forgot to add on the 20.   That just underlines the point , how many over 77s do you see at Goodwood?

[Derwent Motorsport]

Journalism has changed vastly over the years.  Editor were important people whether it be for a motoring mag or the local paper.  Nowadays editors don't edit, In many cases they write most of the content.  Our local "county" magazine has about 80% written by the editor.  Quite often articles just stop at the end of a page and your turn over expecting a concluding paragraph.   The same applies to classic car mags  produced by the  major publishing groups. Many of the contributors and editors cover several magazines. 

Some motoring magazines are appalling value for money. I recently cancelled my sub for MG Enthusiast after about 40 years.  I sat down with the latest edition and a coffee and the coffee lasted longer than it took to read the magazine which was written by someone who obviously had no background knowledge. 

[MCS]

I saw the Ferrari film yesterday in Telford - in a totally full Odeon cinema of almost entirely young people. I found that seriously weird.

I wondered if anyone other than me knew that Peter Collins (portrayed in the film with amazingly accurate clothing, even down to the multi coloured woollen bobble hat) was from not far down the A442.

Planning to see the Ferrari film in the New Year.

 

Also still hoping to get to this: https://www.museumsw...rmula-one-hero/

 

(Edit to replace url link)

Edited by MCS, 31 December 2023 - 10:58.

[FlyingSaucer]

Really, I wasn't expecting so many responses on this topic hahaha. Thank you guys.

 

Journalism has changed vastly over the years.  Editor were important people whether it be for a motoring mag or the local paper.  Nowadays editors don't edit, In many cases they write most of the content.  Our local "county" magazine has about 80% written by the editor.  Quite often articles just stop at the end of a page and your turn over expecting a concluding paragraph.   The same applies to classic car mags  produced by the  major publishing groups. Many of the contributors and editors cover several magazines. 

Some motoring magazines are appalling value for money. I recently cancelled my sub for MG Enthusiast after about 40 years.  I sat down with the latest edition and a coffee and the coffee lasted longer than it took to read the magazine which was written by someone who obviously had no background knowledge. 

 

I know exactly what you're talking about.

 

I had a short experience as a newsroom journalist and nowadays, it seems just sad (maybe that's why I didn't fit into this context). There are no longer defined roles, as the lines that divided one section or sector from another are increasingly merging. Furthermore, with this habit of everyone thinking they know how to make news, the true meaning of the profession becomes empty. I don't know about other countries, but at least in mine, I'm scared about the level of people who work with automotive media (with certain exceptions) - for example, people who work with F1 but don't know who were Jim Clark or Denny Hulme is smt absurd!

 

Furthermore, as someone mentioned in the comments, today everything is more about images than texts. If you have this story with the MG Enthusiast, I have one with an aviation magazine that I always bought in Brazil. For 15 years I went religiously to the newsstand to buy it. After it was sold after the owner's death, I only bought 1 edition. Why? Well, because the magazine looks more like an Instagram than a proper magazine nowadays.

 

But it's time to stop whining, because at least I'm doing my part (and that's what matters in the end)

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 29 December 2023 - 12:58.

[F1matt]

I don’t see why people who work in current F1, or follow modern F1 have a need to know who Jim Clark or Denny Hulme were, it will not improve their understanding of the sport they are involved with in any way and it will not affect their enjoyment. I think most sports are similar, the modern footballers won’t know many of the stars of yesterday in the same way a modern athlete won’t know people from the past, the main thing is they enjoy the era they are watching and the names will stay with them even though they become irrelevant to the next generation. Nobody has lost anything. As long as there is some form of record which will be available somewhere for people who wish to delve a little deeper then all is fine. Unless that person becomes the obnoxious bore standing at copse moaning about the current state of the sport and how he once read about Clark drifting through the corner while lapping 7 seconds faster than anyone else. 

[E1pix]

Back here on Earth, my genuine fear is that young racing writers are so scarce, our intrepid OP’s username is actually his office location.

[john aston]

I don’t see why people who work in current F1, or follow modern F1 have a need to know who Jim Clark or Denny Hulme were, it will not improve their understanding of the sport they are involved with in any way and it will not affect their enjoyment. I think most sports are similar, the modern footballers won’t know many of the stars of yesterday in the same way a modern athlete won’t know people from the past, the main thing is they enjoy the era they are watching and the names will stay with them even though they become irrelevant to the next generation. Nobody has lost anything. As long as there is some form of record which will be available somewhere for people who wish to delve a little deeper then all is fine. Unless that person becomes the obnoxious bore standing at copse moaning about the current state of the sport and how he once read about Clark drifting through the corner while lapping 7 seconds faster than anyone else. 

 I agree - at least in part. What is now the ancient  history of the Sixties was once cutting edge F1 for me , and I knew little and cared less about Moss's achievements, let alone those of Ascari or Nuvolari . In time , however, I did learn that knowledge of the sport's history enabled a much more informed view of the present . Unlike some of my peers I think the current stock of drivers would fare just as well if they were given Lotus 25s or Bugatti T35s to drive - and in the same way as a Gurney or Fangio would excel in a Red Bull or a Mercedes . 

 

What I will not tolerate is 'temporal superiority ' which typically manifests itself  in young followers of the sport sneering at drivers of the past simply because the cars of last eras weren't as fast . or as complex as the present. It also can be found in old farts sneering at  any driver who is guilty of (A) being much younger than they are and(B) not being Jim Clark(et al ) . 

 

One reason I loathe those daft GOAT lists is that they are misnomers. They are invariably GOMT lists - My Time. The 'All Time'  nomenclature invariably bestows a spurious gravitas which so often is entirely unmerited .

Edited by john aston, 29 December 2023 - 17:41.

[Charlieman]

I don’t see why people who work in current F1, or follow modern F1 have a need to know who Jim Clark or Denny Hulme were, it will not improve their understanding of the sport they are involved with in any way and it will not affect their enjoyment.

If the designers of the new generation of ground effects F1 cars had understood the causes of porpoising, they wouldn't have made such a hash of the job. Adrian Newey did understand and his cars worked. I'm also sure that the team bosses who manage their personnel best have learned from history as much as from management school theory.

[Charlieman]

I saw the Ferrari film yesterday in Telford - in a totally full Odeon cinema of almost entirely young people. I found that seriously weird.

I wondered if anyone other than me knew that Peter Collins (portrayed in the film with amazingly accurate clothing, even down to the multi coloured woollen bobble hat) was from not far down the A442.

I saw the film on Boxing Day with niece and her 12 year old son. He remembered that Peter Collins was a Worcestershire lad when prompted by me.

[F1matt]

 I agree - at least in part. What is now the ancient  history of the Sixties was once cutting edge F1 for me , and I knew little and cared less about Moss's achievements, let alone those of Ascari or Nuvolari . In time , however, I did learn that knowledge of the sport's history enabled a much more informed view of the present . Unlike some of my peers I think the current stock of drivers would fare just as well if they were given Lotus 25s or Bugatti T35s to drive - and in the same way as a Gurney or Fangio would excel in a Red Bull or a Mercedes . 

 

What I will not tolerate is 'temporal superiority ' which typically manifests itself  in young followers of the sport sneering at drivers of the past simply because the cars of last eras weren't as fast . or as complex as the present. It also can be found in old farts sneering at  any driver who is guilty of (A) being much younger than they are and(B) not being Jim Clark(et al ) . 

 

One reason I loathe those daft GOAT lists is that they are misnomers. They are invariably GOMT lists - My Time. The 'All Time'  nomenclature invariably bestows a spurious gravitas which so often is entirely unmerited .

Are they more to do with clickbait to drive traffic to a particular site or to sell more magazines rather than engage in a reasonable debate?

[F1Frog]

One reason I loathe those daft GOAT lists is that they are misnomers. They are invariably GOMT lists - My Time. The 'All Time' nomenclature invariably bestows a spurious gravitas which so often is entirely unmerited .

Surely this is a criticism of certain people writing GOAT lists rather than the concept in general. It is perfectly possible for this to be a constructive and fascinating debate.

[lyntonh]

Surely this is a criticism of certain people writing GOAT lists rather than the concept in general. It is perfectly possible for this to be a constructive and fascinating debate.

You missed adding a disclaimer on a supposedly objective comment, that would have revealed your own adoration for GOAT lists.

Perfectly possible to be fascinating.....less possible to be constructive.

[Bob Riebe]

Edited by Bob Riebe, 29 December 2023 - 22:21.

[Nick Planas]

I don’t see why people who work in current F1, or follow modern F1 have a need to know who Jim Clark or Denny Hulme were, it will not improve their understanding of the sport they are involved with in any way and it will not affect their enjoyment. I think most sports are similar, the modern footballers won’t know many of the stars of yesterday in the same way a modern athlete won’t know people from the past, the main thing is they enjoy the era they are watching and the names will stay with them even though they become irrelevant to the next generation. Nobody has lost anything. As long as there is some form of record which will be available somewhere for people who wish to delve a little deeper then all is fine. Unless that person becomes the obnoxious bore standing at copse moaning about the current state of the sport and how he once read about Clark drifting through the corner while lapping 7 seconds faster than anyone else. 

I agree in part, but then I get cross when I see some self-appointed 'experts' on YouTube claiming to know about the history of the sport. They might at least have the decency to know what they're talking about, and especially, to research how to pronounce the names of such as Hulme (not Hyoom), Bonnier, Tyrrell (yes, I saw one YouTuber call the car a 'Tie-rull' at which point I stopped watching), Depailler (not De-pall-i-er), Reutemann (Rootermann?!), etc - the list goes on. Oh, and dear old Carlos Pace whose surname apparently rhymed with Mace.

[Doug Nye]

As with taste in favoured cars, admiration for favoured drivers, fascination with ball games, addiction to computer games - enthusiastic interest in motor sport always reflects generational change, social environment - simply the way 'things' in th wider world really are.  

 

The historic and classic car market has seen core interest marques and models rise and fall reflecting the impressionable years of youth within currently moneyed and acquisitive collectors.  As older generations fall away, those with different and more recent centres of interest will take their turn to flourish, before the process repeats.  It's a natural sequence.

 

When I was a lad the collecting world's focus of interest gravitated towards quality and competition cars of the 1920s - 30-40 years then gone by.  That focus rolled forward to the 1930s/40s - then 1950s/60s - etc etc - as generations of youthful enthusiasts earned their money and induged themselves.  The popular enthusiast press could only follow their slowly rolling-over readership, and if they did not and remained stuck in an era of declining (dying) interest, they did so at their commercial peril.

 

While that was true even while the print media was supreme and unchallenged, t'ain't so now.  

 

Print media generally has its back to the wall.  Reading per se has plainly diminished.  The general audience's attention span has diminished concurrently. Free to air internet hits and videos of immensely variable quality (and value) feed the tastes of a decreasingly sophisticated and inquisitive audience. 

 

The outlook for enquiring hard-print specialist magazines is not all black - and 'journalism' can work just as well on-line, video or audio as it has traditionally on paper - but the discipline is different, more intense, tougher.  And the paying audience is very much smaller.

 

The drive to brevity mitigates as much against true detail as it does against the possibility of lacing entertaining anecdote into any story.  Which I guess is where the "imagine you're just telling your mates the story in the pub" approach comes in.  Keep it brief before you bore them.

 

I just count myself lucky to have got away with as much as I have got away with for the past sixty years...  There's been many a screw-up along the way, but hey - in general, trust me, I'm a journalist.  

 

DCN 

[john aston]

Surely this is a criticism of certain people writing GOAT lists rather than the concept in general. It is perfectly possible for this to be a constructive and fascinating debate.

 I've yet to read anything terribly informative on GOAT lists . As mentioned , they are usually lists of the compiler's  favourites; and the ones which try to apply maths to driver achievements almost invariably produce daft results - ' read how doughty Dutchman  Huub Rothengatter  eclipses Chris Amon and Gerhard Berger '. 

 

Vanity and folly the lot of them. Every race has a winner but why do lists of winners need one too? 

 

GOATs are almost as infuriating as that well known oxymoron, 'the undeserving champion '. 

Edited by john aston, 30 December 2023 - 09:39.

[Odseybod]

A few random thoughts.

 

When the first issue of Classic Cars magazine appeared in 1973 - before classic cars were actually a 'thing' - its front cover featured an MG TC and the recently launched MGB V8. Even in its formative days, it recognised it would be doomed to a short life if it adopted the 'there are no classics after 1968' stance propounded by many armchair experts. Because there's no 'official' time span for classic cars (unlike veteran and vintage ones, at least here in the UK), the so-called New Age Classics such as Subarus, F40s and water-cooled 911s can rub shoulders with Bugattis, 300 SLs and assorted big Healeys, attracting their own younger readership albeit at the expense of a bit of huffing and puffing from some of the old guard. Visit a local car show in the summer and notice how many MX5s and Elises are ushered into the sacred enclosure for classics. Times change and opinions change with them.

 

However, I suspect that won't be the case with competition cars, especially the higher-end ones such as F1 and LMP sports cars (or whatever they're called this week). Their complexity will I think confine them to museums, while their running gear will return to the manufacturers before it can be dissected to reveal its innermost secrets, legit or otherwise. Gone are the days when a former Grand Prix car could find its way into private ownership for sprints or hillclimbs, before eventually being 'rescued' and lovingly restored as a historic racer. I just don't think that will be feasible - practically or economically - for any front-line competition car built much after the V-10 era in F1, possibly well before that.

 

Unlike the evolving road car scene, that would seem to preserve historic racing in aspic, in terms of its participants and any allowed modifications - which (in reply to the OP) would probably still require any pukka reporter to have done their research into what he/she is looking at and know if/why it's significant. A side issue is that with a finite number of participating cars (apart from a few that may come out of the woodwork), preserving their integrity will become ever more important - our present era could be seen in future years as a time when hooligans reigned, with a fairly cavalier attitude to mending or replacing whatever got bent or broken. I think I may just have opened a few cans or worms ...

 

     

[Sterzo]

While book publishing is clearly facing an existential crisis, it's worth remembering that not even in the time of plenty was everything perfect. There were quite a few pot-boilers, plus autobiographies by someone else, and definitive histories that weren't. The heart would sink when certain authors published a book on an important subject, because they'd queered the pitch for a serious effort. Whereas the standard of some recent publications by forum members alone is incredibly high.

[LittleChris]

While book publishing is clearly facing an existential crisis, it's worth remembering that not even in the time of plenty was everything perfect. There were quite a few pot-boilers, plus autobiographies by someone else, and definitive histories that weren't. 

 

From memory, at the end of Lewis Hamilton's first F1 season there were 9 different biographies of him published !!

[Nick Planas]

Slightly OT but yesterday I was offered a YouTube of Vintage Film of the London Underground. Expecting shots from the early 1900s I was surprised to see it was footage from the early 1980s - heck, that can't be vintage, I was living in London with my new wife back then...

 

Also I recall being at the Silverstone Classic a few years back when the Historic Sportscars were running, and included an ex-Michael Schumacher Mercedes.

[E1pix]

This whole time passage thing gets more interesting with time, right Nick?

I was born in ‘60, watched my first race at 35 months old, and am evermore grateful for seeing those early decades.

Though just an opinion, seems to me that being born between 1930 to 1945, and trackside, would be a trade I’d make for being younger now.

For only seven years, I had a dear, 93 year-old mountaineer friend who refused even the notion of trading ages with me when I was 25 — and honestly it took me some years to exactly know what he meant.

The things he saw, he and friend Bill Ervin were the first to summit all of the Colorado 14,000-foot peaks… by 1923 (Edit: Carl finished the West Coast 14ers in 1957).

RIP Carl Blaurock, 1894-1993

Edited by E1pix, 30 December 2023 - 20:46.

[Charlieman]

As with taste in favoured cars, admiration for favoured drivers, fascination with ball games, addiction to computer games - enthusiastic interest in motor sport always reflects generational change, social environment - simply the way 'things' in th wider world really are.  

When I first saw this thread, I thought about a recent column in Motor Sport magazine on this very topic. Do you know the author, by chance?

[lyntonh]

 I agree - at least in part. What is now the ancient  history of the Sixties was once cutting edge F1 for me , and I knew little and cared less about Moss's achievements, let alone those of Ascari or Nuvolari . In time , however, I did learn that knowledge of the sport's history enabled a much more informed view of the present . Unlike some of my peers I think the current stock of drivers would fare just as well if they were given Lotus 25s or Bugatti T35s to drive - and in the same way as a Gurney or Fangio would excel in a Red Bull or a Mercedes . 

 

What I will not tolerate is 'temporal superiority ' which typically manifests itself  in young followers of the sport sneering at drivers of the past simply because the cars of last eras weren't as fast . or as complex as the present. It also can be found in old farts sneering at  any driver who is guilty of (A) being much younger than they are and(B) not being Jim Clark(et al ) . 

 

One reason I loathe those daft GOAT lists is that they are misnomers. They are invariably GOMT lists - My Time. The 'All Time'  nomenclature invariably bestows a spurious gravitas which so often is entirely unmerited .

Facebook commentary drags out the 'best' in dopey GOAT list-style remarks.

 

A photo of Jack Brabham recently drew out the usual hoard of sycophantic adoration comments

from mostly occasional motor racing observers, which eventually saw the need in some people

to elevate the hyperbole to ridiculous levels.

 

The discussion degenerated into a heated debate about whether Jack Brabham or Don Bradman

was the most important symbol of success in Australian Sporting history, with anger, derision, indignation

and insult all featuring in the downhill slide into pointlessness.

[Charlieman]

The discussion degenerated into a heated debate about whether Jack Brabham or Don Bradman

was the most important symbol of success in Australian Sporting history, with anger, derision, indignation

and insult all featuring in the downhill slide into pointlessness.

Over here, we know that both sides are wrong because Evonne Goolagong has a more memorable name.

[lyntonh]

Facebook commentary drags out the 'best' in dopey GOAT list-style remarks.

 

A photo of Jack Brabham recently drew out the usual hoard of sycophantic adoration comments

from mostly occasional motor racing observers, which eventually saw the need in some people

to elevate the hyperbole to ridiculous levels.

 

The discussion degenerated into a heated debate about whether Jack Brabham or Don Bradman

was the most important symbol of success in Australian Sporting history, with anger, derision, indignation

and insult all featuring in the downhill slide into pointlessness.

And to illustrate my point, this morning on a well known Australian Facebook group,

a gushing post with a photo of a screen-printed Tee-shirt with a photo of JB was commented on immediately with....

 

'I know it is often said but a truly great racer who was under appreciated here at home'

 

If it's repeated often enough, apparently it becomes true....

Edited by lyntonh, 31 December 2023 - 03:06.

[Doug Nye]

Soon after publication of the (unfortunately flawed) autobiographical book on which I worked with Jack Brabham he phoned from Oz to say, "Guess whose book we are currently out-selling in Sydney, dropping it to number two in the list?".

 

"I have no idea Jack...".

 

"It's by some monkey called Waugh..." - meaning Steve Waugh, redoubtable Oz cricket captain.  'Blackie' was chuffed to bits...his competitiveness not confined to motor sport...

 

Re-reading some of this thread the heading alone seems significant in referring specifically to 'vintage motorsport journalism'.  

 

That's surely confining an already quite rarefied interest - in motor sport generally - just to historic motor sport.  The late Dave McKinney (for one example) doggedly pursued the notion of publishing a journal of record covering purely historic racing despite many of us constantly pointing out the idea's limitations in terms of open market commercial appeal.  

 

Quite apart from the bald fact that readership would prove limited largely to the participants themselves, it has long been a characteristic of historic events that over extended periods of time the results are dominated by the same drivers in the same cars, as long as the owners' interest level - and financial health - survives.  

 

So an initial level of interest in a specialised publication could be very brief indeed and several similar magazine or newsletter ventures have survived only a season or two before foundering financially.  No significant careers are being built by the activity - apart from those of restorers/preparers - and in the wider motor sporting scene vintage/historic racing results are just irrelevant.  The real point is that for people interested - these days hardly a significant proportion of the overall population - it IS fun and it is an interesting and enjoyable activity, but has that sentiment proved sufficient to sustain a truly specialised commercial publication?  Sometimes bitter experience indicates otherwise.  So why limit a budding journalistic ambition to mere pipsqueak historic racing?  Go wider-range and if you're any good (and lucky) the water - while not as warming as it once was - can still be very welcoming...

 

DCN

[PCC]

So why limit a budding journalistic ambition to mere pipsqueak historic racing?  Go wider-range and if you're any good (and lucky) the water - while not as warming as it once was - can still be very welcoming...

 

DCN

I think this is excellent advice. When I was the OP's age, I was studying photography. I was passionate about it, and I also loved to travel, so I got it into my head that I wanted to be a travel photographer. I discussed it with a senior and respected faculty member. His response: Yes! You can be a travel photographer! But don't expect to make a living by doing nothing but travel photography. Good advice.

 

Fast forward decades, and after several wildly unpredictable twists and turns, I find myself in academia. Like everyone in that line of work, I have my particular passions that fuel my research. But can I do my whole job without ever stepping outside that comfort zone? No, not even close. My job allows me to indulge my passion, but it also demands that I do more than just that.

 

Challenges notwithstanding, I would always urge young people to follow their passions, and do everything they can to bring those passions as close to the centre of their professional lives as possible. If you have a passion for something, you have only two choices. You either try to make it a prominent feature of your livelihood, or you spend the rest of your life wondering what might have happened if you had tried. The latter is, in my view, no way to live.

 

Incidentally, I still do a lot of travel, and a lot of photography. But I never made a living as a travel photographer. And I'm more than fine with that - I actually wouldn't trade my career trajectory for anything, even though it was nothing like I initially imagined it would be.

 

Thanks to the OP for a provocative (in the best way) question, and to the many thoughtful respondents. TNF is taking a bit of kicking in another current thread, but this one shows its better side. Happy New Year everyone!

Edited by PCC, 31 December 2023 - 17:15.

[E1pix]

I have to say, the faculty member’s advice was only “mostly true” — unless being willing to have almost no other life in pursuit of the goal.

We made a great living following our dreams, for a very long time. It wasn’t that our work was any better, and certainly not because I was born with some inherent “knack” like so many suggested (which made me kinda miffed, honestly). It was more the belief that with enough endless, intensive work, things are far more possible.

A big factor, though, was the decision to not have kids. By 30, in 1990, I already had 15 years being paid for art, and knew it took everything I had, partly as I was diverse and had to learn and grow a lot more than any single art career. That meant 4,000-hour work years sometimes, skipping a ton of parties, and lunches, never a “vacation,” complete and single-mindedness was the only way to get anywhere.

With that, there’s a saying in the States, “Jack of all trades, master of none.” Nonsense. First, you indeed *can* pursue a career path if willing to be diverse enough to have fallbacks to make money with.

Second, I don’t believe in the concept of “mastery.” There’s a finite nature to that, nobody truly masters anything — or if they do, growth has just stopped.

All to say, what Peter said about travel photography, coming from a teacher especially, was wrong to me personally. BUT… that was then, when the money could be very good, working a camera within a budget took a ton of effort and learning — but sadly, now that cameras are almost a joke to operate in ridiculous simplicity, Peter’s teachers advice is now far more true.

So far as the OP, I would indeed encourage you to go for it — meaning, I agree with every single word Peter said about this, and his words are to be trusted. Life’s too short to only worry about money, the adage of “getting ahead” has no bearing or gain whatsoever to the soul, or to the Meaning of Life. Find what makes you truly happy, you’ll know you’re doing it right when you wake up and CAN’T WAIT to get back on that project.

But beware! Always get enough sleep, eat right, drink water, get exercise, find love, maintain love, and be mindful of not burning out.

Our site’s a bit in limbo from said burnout, and the effects of Science on Art, but this may be of interest.

Get after it and enjoy every step:
https://ericwunrow.p...elter.com/about

[Michael Ferner]

The last three posts (in particular) give very good advice with respect to pursuing a 'passionate' career in general; I would like to offer yet another facet: Personally, I very quickly realized that I would never be able to make a decent living while doing what I loved most, so I made a 'deal' with myself, go for a bread-and-butter job to fill the fridge, and follow your heart's desire in your free time. That concept has a few weak spots, no doubt, but it generally works fine for me. Sometimes patience is needed "when you wake up and CAN’T WAIT to get back on that project", but instead you have to go to work instead. At the same time, I'm more free in what I choose to do, as there's no worries about making your passion pay your bills. On the bad side, again, is the the lack of self discipline this encourages, as I can get lost in petty details - or is that on the good side, again?

 

Anyway, life's an oyster, you'll never know what you'll get until you open it. Just don't get desperate if it's not EXACTLY what you expected...

[Michael Ferner]

An afterthought: I was reminded again of that great movie, "American Splendor", which portrays real life comic writer Harvey Pekar, who was pretty famous in his time but not as successful in his trade as he would have wished, needing a 'day job' all his professional life to stay afloat. Of course, he had dreams about making it big, and the most memorable scene from that movie (for me!) was showing him waking up from one of those dreams, bathed in sweat, and uttering that lovely sentence:

 

"Thank God, I have a job!"

 

 

I loved this scene, as the feeling was sooo familiar to me: it's great to live one's passion, but it's even better to have something else to pay for your bills! I always caution against the usual advice to seek out a career in the field you're most passionate about, it can backfire badly! For every successful career in arts, modelling or what have you, there are hundreds of shattered dreams, which can sour the most passionate love. I'm not saying, "Don't do it!", but be realistic - there are other ways to enjoy your passion without the economical pressure. Be open-minded!

[Zmeej]

Need to see that.

[FlyingSaucer]

I wish I had followed my conversation more closely in the last days, but the end of the year is always a chaos. 

 

As Ferner said above, the last few posts basically summarize the heart of my question (and I'm going to be honest, I was eagerly awaiting Doug Nye's opinion  )

 

It's that thing, balancing a passion with what pays the bills is the ideal world, what I think we all want. I believe that here we have people who are passionate about F1, NASCAR, WSC, Trans-am, etc... and who would love to work with it; but how many are lucky enough to achieve this?

 

Furthermore, even if you manage to work at what you love, will you find a way to convey your passion to the public? For example, someone who is passionate about IndyCar/ChampCar/USAC and knows a lot about the category. How many people would be interested in knowing who won the 1973 Michigan 200? I would, but just because I'm weird guy who likes the past.

 

This is about the immediacy of current life, where the past has passed. The present is what matters.

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 04 January 2024 - 15:10.

[Michael Ferner]

Need to see that.

 

Do it, it's an excellent movie! But be prepared for something off the beaten track; it's a mixture of animation, documentary and proper movie. Goes to show there's still life in American cinematography, despite Hollywood's 'best' efforts...

[dmj]

I am a journalist – and not pessimistic at all. But there are some things that have to be pointed out:

1. There is always a favored era of nostalgia and it is fairly recent, 15-30 years old at any given moment. It affects everything, from values of collectables (including old racing cars) to journalistic themes that attract the audience. An article about Jean Alesi will attract much greater audience than one about Jean Behra. In 20 years from now an article about Pierre Gasly will attract more people than one about Jean Alesi. Simple rule about the audience and their early memories. If as a journalist I want to earn for my bread and milk I have to follow the taste of general audience to some extent (unless I have a status like late Bill Boddy – but it takes decades to earn such a status, of course.)

2. Interest in older and more unusual subjects is also here but it is and always has been limited. But it is more accessible than it ever was. Internet did for it exactly what CD technology did for music in 1980s: made old stuff readily available. However exotic themes are, there is some website and public attracted to it. Also, there is audience for paper books about anything – but due to a lot of factors, the books about more exotic subjects tend to be more and more expensive, further limiting the audience through it. However, there is an extraordinary amount of research put into thousands of new releases each year about history of pretty much everything, racing included.

3. Amount of information gathered on specialized websites, TNF included, is astounding. Number of people interested in even the most exotic subjects is increasing, due to availability. However, problem is that it is still not considered as a cultural treasure, websites are prone to deletion after the people who handle them die or lose faith… IMHO, there should be some international governance body dedicated to preservation of collected information.

4. If there is any fear it is mostly to lack of attention span by new generations. They seem to be consent with watching 15 seconds videos and deletion of their social media posts after 24 hours… I am not sure what to think of these changes, although I strongly believe that there will always be a minority willing to read novels, watch entire movies and approach the world more deeply. Most of people from my generation (and I am 53) actually did the same, just with different media: reading the newspapers and magazines they would discard immediately afterwards. Instagram and Tik Tok just sped up the process but it was already there.

5. Whichever of my hobbies I can think of, there are more people involved nowadays than, say, 20 years ago. And quantity certainly leads to quality, some of these newbies are really knowledgeable, even if often quite young. Thus, I really don’t have fear about the future.

[Michael Ferner]

Sound observations... 

 

 

IMHO, there should be some international governance body dedicated to preservation of collected information.

 

That is perhaps wishful thinking, but there IS an organization that at least addresses the problem, and they are dependent on donations, so everybody can (and perhaps should) chip in - I do! 

 

https://archive.org/web/

Edited by Michael Ferner, 04 January 2024 - 15:32.