172 replies to this topic

[Stephane]

Neuville words after SS6 "There was a stone in the road, I tried to avoid it but it must've been close because it immediately punctured the tyre. Was about 2km from the end. The stage was OK, after the puncture I was just trying to survive."

[Anja]

I was sure Ogier would be closer.

 

He's getting there now...

[Ben24]

He's getting there now...

I haven't watched any of it yet but surely he's got to be the favourite to win from here. I'd have thought his road position disadvantage today would've been worth a lot more than the small amount of time he's down by.

[ARTGP]

Neuville words after SS6 "There was a stone in the road, I tried to avoid it but it must've been close because it immediately punctured the tyre. Was about 2km from the end. The stage was OK, after the puncture I was just trying to survive."

 

 Neuville should try walking backwards underneath a ladder. 

[Stephane]

Ogier winning the Rally probably, but not the most points....

[Jvr]

Ogier wins 21 pts

Evans second 19 pts

Neuville third 19 pts

Tänak fourth 20 pts

 

This new points scoring system is totally broken.

[Vesuvius]

Tänak scoring more points then Evans and Neuville, despitate having no pace at all during the weekend...that is really wrong.

Ogier lucky win, but he made no mistakes so kudos to him.

[Ben24]

It was infuriating listening to the commentators try justify the points system today as if it was the thing that made this rally interesting going into the final day. This rally was super close at the front already and would've been more interesting going into the final day with a normal points system. There are an infinite number of points systems that would keep rallies at least as exciting right until the end whilst much more fairly rewarding the driver's performance over this stupidity - the most obvious solutions being points per day or points per stage. Having the last 4 stages of a 20 stage rally be worth 40% of the total points is absolutely ridiculous, especially when those further back have less to lose going into the final day so can push more. I seriously don't know how any single could even up with this system in the first place, let alone have a group of people agree to implement it.

Edited by Ben24, 21 April 2024 - 16:36.

[Jellyfishcake]

If other people had been struggling to stay interested in WRC (like me) over the last years, this change of the points system is not a way to fix it and gain interest.

 

What a ridiculous idea it is 

Edited by Jellyfishcake, 21 April 2024 - 16:48.

[Ben24]

Tänak scoring more points then Evans and Neuville, despitate having no pace at all during the weekend...that is really wrong.

Ogier lucky win, but he made no mistakes so kudos to him.

The Safari Rally probably had even more insane points totals on paper when looking at the final results relative to points scored. In that case I think some felt the championship points were fair though since the Hyundai drivers probably drove at least as well as Evans but suffered way worse luck so perhaps deserved their strong points haul. Of course that totally totally ignores the fact that Rovanpera totally dominated that rally and yet basically scored the same as several others and that Toyota finished 3 of the top 4 but basically scored the same points as the totally unreliable Hyundai team.

 

The points in this rally are just impossible to justify on any level though. Ogier had worse road position than Tanak every day, finished a minute and several positions ahead yet only scored 1 more point than him. 

[Ben24]

Ignoring the stupid points system for a second, has M-Sport made a massive step forward this season? Fourmaux's pace has been way closer to Tanak's at every rally this year than it ever was when they were actually team mates last year. Perhaps more obvious (assuming Tanak is struggling to adapt to the Hyundai) is how much closer Fourmaux is to the leader's pace than he ever was last year. 

Edited by Ben24, 21 April 2024 - 17:16.

[AlexPrime]

Who leads WDC now? WRC seems like a low level racing league this season, which drivers coming only for some rallies, a bit like the ERC really.

[Jvr]

Ignoring the stupid points system for a second, has M-Sport made a massive step forward this season? Fourmaux's pace has been way closer to Tanak's at every rally this year than it ever was when they were actually team mates last year. Perhaps more obvious (assuming Tanak is struggling to adapt to the Hyundai) is how much closer Fourmaux is to the leader's pace than he ever was last year. 

Seems like Fourmaux has found pace and Ford suits him. A power stage win with a car that had a broken steering arm replaced on the road is quite impressive. But on that, I guess Fourmaux has such a track record of breaking steering arms that the team has them in the car as spares... 

 

But I must comment on the scoring system: Fourmaux had such a serious mistake with hitting that corner cutting device that despite him being able to fix it and get back into the race losing 15 minutes in the process, he bagged 13 pts while being 17th overall at the end. This is crazy.

[Stephane]

The Sunday loop si now, either a warm up for the power stage, a repechage for those having problems earlier, another occasion to hit bad luck for the earlier leaders. A bit less useless than most of the times before, but so weird.

 

 

 

As said before, it would have been just easier to award points on days (or even loops)...

[Myrvold]

Fourmaux's pace has been way closer to Tanak's at every rally this year than it ever was when they were actually team mates last year. Perhaps more obvious (assuming Tanak is struggling to adapt to the Hyundai) is how much closer Fourmaux is to the leader's pace than he ever was last year. 

 

Being in a rally1 car compared to rally2 last year is probably the biggest reason why Fourmaux is closer 

[ensign14]

HOW IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO GIVE MOST POINTS TO THE WINNER AND THEN FEWER POINTS BIT BY BIT AS YOU GO DOWN THE PLACES

 

AAARRRGGHHHHHH

[Ben24]

Being in a rally1 car compared to rally2 last year is probably the biggest reason why Fourmaux is closer 

That would explain most of the gap   Felt like he did more than just the 1 event in the Rally1 car for some reason.

 

Regardless, the point still stands with how quick he has been this year compared to the past. He never once really looked significantly quicker than Loubet in 2022, who himself never showed this kind of pace at all last year. Now suddenly Fourmaux is not miles away from the pace Tanak was showing in the M-Sport last year which just seems impossible to believe based on his previous results. Surely he hasn't suddenly made that bigger step forward in his pace and consistency

[BRG]

Fourmaux is still quite young and is obviously improving.  Some (most?) people are slow-burners who keep getting better.  Not everyone is a teenage superhero like Kalle.  BAck in the day, you would be most unlikely to have a works drive without having a number of years of  experience and a track record.

 

M-Sport stood Fourmaux down last year but ran him in a Rally 2 car.  He took a bunch of victories, including Ypres, and won the British championship and I think this honed his skills well and gave n him more self-belief. 

[Anja]

I guess we have no choice but to do some counting for "traditional" championship standings. I'll do my best to update this after each event. (haven't even included power stage for purity's sake)

 

1. Evans - 63 pts

2. Neuville - 62 pts

3. Ogier - 43 pts

4. Fourmaux - 40 pts

5. Katsuta - 34 pts

6. Tanak - 28 pts

7. Lappi - 25 pts

8. Rovanpera - 25 pts

9. Solberg - 16 pts

10. Mikkelsen - 16 pts

11. Pajari - 9 pts

12. Greensmith - 8 pts

13. Munster - 6 pts

14. Linnamae - 6 pts

15. Rossel - 6 pts

16. Gryazin - 5 pts

17. Korhonen - 4 pts 

18. Lopez - 2 pts

19. Serderidis - 2 pts

20. Heikkila - 2 pts

21. Kajetanowicz - 1 pt

Edited by Anja, 22 April 2024 - 16:30.

[Myrvold]

That would explain most of the gap   Felt like he did more than just the 1 event in the Rally1 car for some reason.

 

Regardless, the point still stands with how quick he has been this year compared to the past. He never once really looked significantly quicker than Loubet in 2022, who himself never showed this kind of pace at all last year. Now suddenly Fourmaux is not miles away from the pace Tanak was showing in the M-Sport last year which just seems impossible to believe based on his previous results. Surely he hasn't suddenly made that bigger step forward in his pace and consistency

 

Fourmaux looked ok->good when he first joined the top class, while Loubet looked bad.

Then when they teamed up at M-Sport. Fourmaux had some "pressure" and didn't manage it. Loubet had absolutely zero expectations, and did some fine events.

Then 2023 came around. M-Sport kept Fourmaux, but like they did with Tanak and Evans earlier, they moved him to the 2nd tier, to gain more experience, and develop. Loubet had an awful time last year. Now Fourmaux is back, and seems to have learned (unless Croatia is undoing the mental state he has), and Loubet is back in a Rally2 car. However, in a Skoda, so he has probably thrown away a chance of doing like Tanak, Evans and Fourmaux.

[BRG]

I guess we have no choice but to do some counting for "traditional" championship standings. I'll do my best to update this after each event. (haven't even included power stage for purity's sake)

 

1. Evans - 63 pts

2. Neuville - 62 pts

3. Ogier - 43 pts

4. Fourmaux - 40 pts

5. Katsuta - 34 pts

6. Tanak - 28 pts

7. Lappi - 25 pts

8. Rovanpera - 25 pts

Great work, Anja.  And as a purist who dislikes the whole "Power Stage" crap, I thoroughly approve of leaving it out!

 

And, oh, LOOK, the WRC in the old way is really close - quick let's change the points system. 

[selespeed]

formoux was phenomenal on the last stage considering he crashed on the first run and did the repairs himself...great confidence - their is on-board on youtube...great rolercoster ride...almost on pair with rovanperas 2022. run

[Taxi]

Great work Anja! Thank you so much,  is seems so right like that. 

Edited by Taxi, 24 April 2024 - 08:30.