449 replies to this topic

[BRG]

Whilst I like hybrids and drive one on the road, their USP is greater economy rather than performance.  Dropping them from the WRC is a sensible move, otherwise they would have had to gradually migrate down to Rally2 then Rally 3 etc.  The weight cut is a positive move too. I thought the restrictor was 35mm already but it must have been increased at some point.

 

But dropping Rally1 completely and making the WRC a Rally2 championship would have far better still.

[Stephane]

Engine problems for Thierry. can you believeit.........

[Muppetmad]

Ohhh, I can believe it.

[OvDrone]

Neuville’s losing the Championship again lol

Insanely cursed.

[registered]

Can the non-sensical points system save him?

[Stephane]

Yes

[TauriJ]

Neuville’s losing the Championship again lol

Insanely cursed.

Lol, theres literally like 0.1% chance he loses it.

 

He can get back into points tmrw, or he can get super sunday points or if anything else fails he can get PS points. 

And Tänak has to earn at least 26 points which is very hard with this new point system.

[Stephane]

So, P7 for now, only needs 2 points, and that's if Tanak wins all tomorrow.

[AlexPrime]

When does day 2 end?

[Stephane]

Just one SS left in a few minutes

[August]

If I did the math correctly, Tänak may lose only one point tomorrow to have a chance. That means he needs to win the Sunday classification and finish second in the Power Stage, or 2nd in Sunday classification and win Power Stage. (I think he's got the tiebreaker.)

 

What Neuville needs is 6th in Sunday classification OR 5th in Power Stage, OR 7th in Sunday classification AND 6th in Power Stage. Feels like he can do it with quite a conservative drive.

[Stephane]

Yep. Only bad luck or big mistake can kill his title bid.

So it will obviously happen.




As a reminder, Neuville is the only driver to have won the whole 30 points in a rally

[MRX94]

Neuville just needs to be faster than Munster and it's done, 6th place gives him 2 pts, for a total of 6 for the event. There are 8 WRC crews and Mikkelsen won't threaten him.

[Anja]

Tanak crashed. Congratulations to Neuville. 

[Stephane]

Well, Tanak out, Thierry champion

Edited by Stephane, 23 November 2024 - 23:17.

[TF110]

He's been error prone this season. Or the car gives up. Hyundai are lucky Rovanpera isn't full time for Toyota or the championship would have been over 2 rallies ago.

Edited by TF110, 23 November 2024 - 23:17.

[Stephane]

Manufacturer championship probably goes to Toyota now

[Muppetmad]

He's been error prone this season. Or the car gives up. Hyundai are lucky Rovanpera isn't full time for Toyota or the championship would have been over 2 rallies ago.

I don't know if we can say that with any certainty. Rovanperä (Sweden, Portugal, Finland) and Ogier (Greece, Chile, Central Europe) have both binned it more often than Neuville (Italy), despite being part-timers. I actually think it's hard to begrudge Neuville this title: Ogier put himself in title contention (thanks partly, but certainly not fully, to his more favourable position on the road for part of the season), and committed to the rest of the season to try to claim the title, but threw it away himself.

 

Yes, the other full-timers weren't good enough to beat Neuville this year, who has made mistakes here and there, but the part-timers weren't good enough either. Rovanperä clearly had the pace, but lacked the consistency – winning it or binning it (which is precisely what he did this year) hasn't been a title-winning strategy for decades now. Sure, his approach to rallies may well have been different if he'd been driving full-time this year, but we can only speak based on what he actually did. Ogier had the consistency until he didn't, just as he needed it most.

Edited by Muppetmad, 24 November 2024 - 05:09.

[Chubby_Deuce]

I don’t follow rally closely, why do so many of the top talents seem to turn to part time drives? Better paying opportunities in road cars?

[ARTGP]

Neuville has waited forever for this. Congratulations to him. A bit like Petter Solberg?

[AlexPrime]

I am very happy. Thierry deserves it after all these years.

[OvDrone]

Absolutely insane Rally and fantastic finale. Best of the year.

I am so very happy for Neuville.

Finally!

[Ruusperi]

Congrats to both Thierry and Toyota. What a finale.

[MRX94]

I don’t follow rally closely, why do so many of the top talents seem to turn to part time drives? Better paying opportunities in road cars?

That's not the case at all. Taking this year as an example, you have Ogier (old champ who doesn't want to commit to a full season anymore) and Rovanperä (feeling burned out from rallying and I think military service as well?).
Then there are those drivers who share a car over the season, like Mikkelsen, Sordo and Lappi, with Hyundai trying to maximize points by running each of them in rallies which they are expected to be good at.

[ArnageWRC]

He's been error prone this season. Or the car gives up. Hyundai are lucky Rovanpera isn't full time for Toyota or the championship would have been over 2 rallies ago.

 

Rovanpera has made many mistakes this season, and so has Ogier, for 3 events in a row when he got into contention for the title.

 

Neuville has played the new points system brilliantly....and deserves the title. 

 

The fact Evans finished second, only 20 points down shows what a mess Toyota made of their driver tactics; it would only have need a few occasions to swap positions with Kalle/Seb, and he'd have been a factor in the title fight.

[AlexPrime]

Incredible how Toyota scored last gasp wins in constructors championship both in WRC and WEC

[MRX94]

Yeah, just hazarding a guess but Tänak might not be so popular at the Hyundai factory right now. He didn't need to push that hard.

[FLB]

Kovalainen went off at the same place as Tänak and hit his car: VIDÉO - Heikki Kovalainen termine son Rallye du Japon... sur la voiture de Tänak | AutoHebdo (en francais, but with video) 

[Chubby_Deuce]

That's not the case at all. Taking this year as an example, you have Ogier (old champ who doesn't want to commit to a full season anymore) and Rovanperä (feeling burned out from rallying and I think military service as well?).
Then there are those drivers who share a car over the season, like Mikkelsen, Sordo and Lappi, with Hyundai trying to maximize points by running each of them in rallies which they are expected to be good at.

Well, okay. Just seems to be a common thread in rallying for as long as I can recall, starting with Loeb. It’s strange for a top flight series to have its best drivers taking years off or doing partial seasons. It just doesn’t happen elsewhere.

[Stephane]

Toyota in 2025 : full season for Evans, Rovanperra, Pajari and Katsuta. Ogier again with a lighter program.

[Hellow]

Toyota in 2025 : full season for Evans, Rovanperra, Pajari and Katsuta. Ogier again with a lighter program.

Also now confirmed change for Toyota - Juha Kankkunen will take up the role of Deputy Team Principal for next season while TP Latvala focuses to Historical Rally Championship.

Edited by Hellow, 25 November 2024 - 11:56.

[AlexPrime]

All in all, a great season IMO, new champion, close battles. I don't expect it to last with Rovanpera coming back full time, but who knows.

[Myrvold]

Neuville has waited forever for this. Congratulations to him. A bit like Petter Solberg?

Petter won his title in 2003. He was still doing rallycross in Norway in 1996, and only started out with some rallying that year.
He had the part-time Ford contract in 99 and 00, had his first full WRC season in 01, first rally win in the season finale in 02, then the title in 03, in only his 7th year in rally.
That's just over half the time that Neuville spent as a full-time WRC driver before winning the title

[TF110]

I don't know if we can say that with any certainty. Rovanperä (Sweden, Portugal, Finland) and Ogier (Greece, Chile, Central Europe) have both binned it more often than Neuville (Italy), despite being part-timers. I actually think it's hard to begrudge Neuville this title: Ogier put himself in title contention (thanks partly, but certainly not fully, to his more favourable position on the road for part of the season), and committed to the rest of the season to try to claim the title, but threw it away himself.

Yes, the other full-timers weren't good enough to beat Neuville this year, who has made mistakes here and there, but the part-timers weren't good enough either. Rovanperä clearly had the pace, but lacked the consistency – winning it or binning it (which is precisely what he did this year) hasn't been a title-winning strategy for decades now. Sure, his approach to rallies may well have been different if he'd been driving full-time this year, but we can only speak based on what he actually did. Ogier had the consistency until he didn't, just as he needed it most.

I was talking about Tanak. Nueville got lucky with Tanak's misfortunes and offs and big congratulations to him on his first title. But imo neither would have won had Rovanpera been full time. Possibly Ogier as well.

Edited by TF110, 26 November 2024 - 02:54.

[Muppetmad]

Ahh, in which case, my apologies for misunderstanding!

[Stephane]

Ogier messes up big time when he chased the title.

Rovanpera crashed in 3 out of the 7 rallies he did.

Not really a great impression for both, this year

[Viryfan]

I guess this shows how rallying is difficult when you're not committed full time.

Even Loeb started to make more mistakes once he stopped full time.

[Myrvold]

I was talking about Tanak. Nueville got lucky with Tanak's misfortunes and offs and big congratulations to him on his first title. But imo neither would have won had Rovanpera been full time. Possibly Ogier as well.

 

You play the cards that you get, I know that not a single season is the same, but looking at the WRC history, I don't think that this title should be viewed as some sort of "If XYZ he wouldn't have won". After all, these are not?

 

1983: Hannu Mikkola becoming the first and only driver (at that point) to do all rallies in a season, winning the title. Audi only car with 4WD

1984: Stig Blomqvist becoming the second driver in WRC history doing all rallies in a season, winning the title. Teammate Mikkola stuck with the old Audi the whole season while Blomqvist got the Sport Quattro.

1985: Timo Salonen doing several more events than anyone else. Vatanen getting seriously injured halfway through the year. Audi doing half the events. Lancia still using an RWD car at times. A Mazda RX7 on the podium on gravel!

1987: First Gr.A year. Lancia had a Gr.A car properly ready. Mazda had a 4WD car. Ford entered a 2WD in many events. Kenneth Eriksson ended the season 4th, in a FWD Golf. Two rallies won by 2WD Gr.A cars.

1988: Did anyone say Lancia-cup? Reigning champ Kankkunen had left for Toyota, who took until round 5 to even have a 4WD car ready. Often it was Lancia v Mazda.. Several 2WD podiums, even at Monte Carlo(!)

1989: Still just Lancia with a competitive Gr.A car, with the team picking what drivers to send to what rally. This was the year a 2WD Group N car won a WRC event.

1990: No dropped scores, Sainz doing all but one round, arguably only Sainz, Kankkunen, Auriol and Biasion were "big names". Auriol and Kankkunen skipped 3 rallies, Biasion skipped 5.

1993: Dropped scores, Kankkunen and Auriol doing more rounds than any other works driver, thus Kankkunen being the only one who ended up dropping a score. Jolly Club ran privateer Lancias.

1994: Auriol and Kankkunen being the only drivers doing every rally, Auriols only title.

1995: Sainz got injured - all he had to do in the rally he had to drop out of was to get a top 6. Only three times in the whole of 1995 did any of the near full-time manufacturer drivers finish outside the top 6 that year. Schwarz in Sweden and Mäkinen&Kankkunen in Corsica.
1997: It was a Mäkinen, McRae, Sainz battle, so the drivers were good. They were also the only full.-time drivers...

2001: Burns won one rally. What if Mitsubishi were allowed to use the Gr.A car the whole year? McRae not McRae'ing? Or Peugeot not imploding on itself for 60% of the season? I mean. Gilles Panizzi only won 1 asphalt-rally that year, only scored in 3 rounds and got half the points Burns got!

2008: Ford used the 2007 car for over half the season, their top driver were Hirvonen. That's the challengers Loeb had that year.

2009: 4 works seats. Ford again delaying the new car.

2010: See above - I mean, Petter Solberg ended up 2 points behind Latvala in 2nd in his private C4.

Then you have some extremely dominant VW years...

 

Yet, I rarely see anyone mentioning anything about those.

 

I guess this shows how rallying is difficult when you're not committed full time.

Even Loeb started to make more mistakes once he stopped full time.

 

I guess it is due to motivation. Rovanperä was seemingly very tired of travelling around. Ogier didn't look happy at all when he won in Finland and said he guessed he "had to do the rest of the rallies". It wasn't a "I will do it to try to win" it was a "I guess I have no other choice due to the championship standings... -.-"

[Muppetmad]

McRae losing 2001 will always stay with me, but in hindsight, I'm so glad Burns got a title. He was worthy of one.

[ArnageWRC]

McRae losing 2001 will always stay with me, but in hindsight, I'm so glad Burns got a title. He was worthy of one.

 

Don't forget 1997 & 98 - the car let him down in both years. Actually led the final two events of 1998  - a blown turbo and engine issues cost him. 

[Peat]

I learned of the Rally Japan winner and World Champion via the BBC front page on Sunday. 

I thought that was quite remarkable. 

 

[Muppetmad]

Don't forget 1997 & 98 - the car let him down in both years. Actually led the final two events of 1998  - a blown turbo and engine issues cost him. 

Alas, I was too young to appreciate those years (and thus 1995 too). 2001 was the only McRae title challenge I can remember.

[Stephane]

I was so mad, especially in 98.

 

 

First memory is Auriol's title.

Edited by Stephane, 26 November 2024 - 11:21.

[Myrvold]

McRae losing 2001 will always stay with me, but in hindsight, I'm so glad Burns got a title. He was worthy of one.

 

I totally agree on both accounts. Though, I actually feel like Mäkinen should've won it that year. Regardless, there is a lot of "asterixed" titles if one decides to say that Neuville won it "only because"...

[Myrvold]

2027 Technical Regulations proposal have started to come through.

 

Powertrain-rules "free for all".

ICE - only

Hybrid

Fully electric.

 

This being balanced by a "torque meter" as used in World RX this year. World RX, having awful number of entires, have actually had a quite nice balance between the ICE and Electric cars, so this might not be the worst idea.

[Anja]

Fourmaux confirmed in the third full-time Hyundai. 

[Vielleicht]

2027 Technical Regulations proposal have started to come through.

Powertrain-rules "free for all".
ICE - only
Hybrid
Fully electric.

This being balanced by a "torque meter" as used in World RX this year. World RX, having awful number of entires, have actually had a quite nice balance between the ICE and Electric cars, so this might not be the worst idea.

I think this could be a good solution for a variety of racing categories. Less of a commercial risk than trying to guess which option is likely to be most attractive for a given timeframe, instead letting change happen organically with one inclusive rule set. I hope to see more of this.

[ArnageWRC]

Yeah, but space frame based cars...........

[Myrvold]

I think this could be a good solution for a variety of racing categories. Less of a commercial risk than trying to guess which option is likely to be most attractive for a given timeframe, instead letting change happen organically with one inclusive rule set. I hope to see more of this.

 

Except todays news doesn't mention it at all, sooooo, maybe it was a false leak?

[Vielleicht]

Except todays news doesn't mention it at all, sooooo, maybe it was a false leak?

It is included today in this FIA release:

 

https://www.fia.com/...ly-championship