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TT vs. GP


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#1 Michael Ferner

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Posted 12 January 2024 - 08:41

In 1906, the Automobile Club de France introduced the Grand Prix to replace the unsatisfactory International Cup (or Gordon-Bennett) races, which immediately became the Gold Standard for automobile racing competition. In subsequent years, other national clubs followed suit, and started organizing big races under the names "Grand Prize", "Gran Premio", "Großer Preis" etc. to the point that the top category of auto racing became known as 'Grand Prix Racing'.

 

The following year, in 1907 the Auto-Cycle Union of Britain introduced the Tourist Trophy on the Isle of Man to replace the unsatisfactory International Cup races, setting a new Gold Standard for motorcycle racing competition. Would it not have been handy, even practical to have used the Grand Prix and Tourist Trophy name tags to differentiate between the top car and motorcycle competitions in each country? Yes, and it even happened - to a degree.

 

Some countries, like the Netherlands or Sweden, named their top motorcycle events the "Dutch TT" and "Swedish TT", respectively, even though the events have also been called Grands Prix in more recent years. Germany had a "Deutsche TT" in 1922, three years before the first "Großer Preis der Motorräder", and Austria had the "Österreichische TT" for a decade after 1923 as its biggest competition for motorcycles, outshining the "Großer Preis", held for a few years in the later twenties, and then regularly from 1950 onwards. The "Deutsche TT" lived on until at least the early nineties, though it became a mere 'international' in later years, often even held on the rather pathetic (for an event named Tourist Trophy!) Betonschleife of the Nürburgring.

 

Most of the Anglosaxon countries also used the TT name to an extent, and there were the "New Zealand TT" (not sure if there was ever an NZ GP for bikes?) and "Australian TT" in the thirties already. Australia soon confused the matter, and for many years there were Oz GPs and TTs rivalling each other, often with alternating venues to really make your head spin - I will try to entangle that in a seperate thread, soon. The USofA basically named every race on a track with a right turn a "Tourist Trophy", and would eventually create the "Steeplechase TT" as its own category, much closer to what we now call Motocross, but not the same!

 

Italy and Spain used the TT moniker sparingly, and I'm not sure if it was ever used in official race names, while France and other French speaking countries eschewed it entirely - already in 1912, both major French motorcycle clubs organised Grands Prix for two- and three-wheelers, and that's the way it stayed in Belgium, too. And let's not forget that the British themselves followed the French guideline when looking for a name for Ulster's biggest motorcycle race of the year in 1922!



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#2 GregThomas

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Posted 12 January 2024 - 18:13

Yes, there is both a NZTT and NZGP for bikes.  The TT was first run on Waiheke Islend which is off Auckland. The GP was first run on a rural roads circuit at Cust outside Christchurch. Both started pre war.

 

Both are still part of the National roadracing Championship series. The TT being the Auckland round, now held on Hampton Downs circuit. The GP being the Christchurch round held on Ruapuna circuit.

 

There is of course the inevitable North Island Vs South Island arguments over which is the most historic/important. I'm a South Islander and therefore maintain the GP has a longer continuous history of uninterrupted running.  Which it does.



#3 LittleChris

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Posted 12 January 2024 - 22:23

 And let's not forget that the British themselves followed the French guideline when looking for a name for Ulster's biggest motorcycle race of the year in 1922!

 

Which for the 5th year in a row won't be taking place despite last years insurance problems no longer being a factor so we're led to believe.......... 

 

 At this rate the only real road races in Ireland will be Armoy and Cookstown.  Apart from the various meetings on the IOM eg TT, Southern 100 , thankfully elsewhere they continue to hold real road races eg Frohburg, Horice and long may they continue !



#4 brands77

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Posted 15 January 2024 - 19:12

I had always thought that TTs were on public roads and GPs were on circuits. However, once you raised the question I thought about it more and realised that wasn't the case. In the 70s, Assen and the TT were on public roads, but the Swedish round was a TT and that was held at Anderstorp an aircraft runway. The other road circuits, Imatra, Opatija, Brno and Spa were all GPs.

 

Just out of interest why was Assen run on Saturday and not Sunday until 2016?



#5 Michael Ferner

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Posted 16 January 2024 - 09:06

I can't claim to know, but I would guess that it was a tradition steeped in old religious laws which prevented such events on Sundays. Some of the other Dutch internationals as well as the car Grand Prix often avoided Sundays, too, and don't forget that by the eighties Assen was a full week event, with European Championship races on Tuesday and production bike races on Thursday or Friday, then the World Championship events on Saturday, all interspersed with practice sessions. It certainly helped with the atmosphere, as I'm sure many of the visitors stayed on after the races and used the Sunday to get home, eventually.



#6 exclubracer

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Posted 17 January 2024 - 19:32

I can't claim to know, but I would guess that it was a tradition steeped in old religious laws which prevented such events on Sundays. Some of the other Dutch internationals as well as the car Grand Prix often avoided Sundays, too, and don't forget that by the eighties Assen was a full week event, with European Championship races on Tuesday and production bike races on Thursday or Friday, then the World Championship events on Saturday, all interspersed with practice sessions. It certainly helped with the atmosphere, as I'm sure many of the visitors stayed on after the races and used the Sunday to get home, eventually.

Spot on Michael, I went to Assen 3 times in the 80s when it was the 'proper' circuit and not the sanitized track it is today.

 

The Dutch fans were awesome for their drinking antics and punch-ups in the crowd were quite common although I always found all the fans I met of many nationalities very friendly and sociable in the surrounding town bars.

 

Happy days, much missed nowadays with the current distance separating fans from the track in the interests of 'safety'.