3768 replies to this topic

[pacificquay]

So the MCL38 will launch on the 14th of Feb

 

First car developed in the new windtunnel

 

Progress from last year to build on

 

Team says interaction between suspension and aero will be a key area for development 

[New Britain]

So the MCL38 will launch on the 14th of Feb

 

First car developed in the new windtunnel

 

Progress from last year to build on

 

Team says interaction between suspension and aero will be a key area for development 

Meaning getting better performance in low-speed bends and on bumpy surfaces without compromising the car's outstanding speed in high-speed bends?

[CPR]

 

Does go into a fair bit on the technical side, at a high level.

[Ali623]

Asked by Motorsport.com for some feedback on the steps McLaren has been able to make this winter, Stella said: "So far, I have to say we don't see the diminishing returns.  

 

"This obviously will have to be proven once we put the car on the ground, but when it comes to the wind tunnel development or the CFD development, we see that the gradient we established last year, that led to the Austria development and then the Singapore development, it seems like we can maintain it.

 

"In the background, we are already starting to work on the further developments that we hope to bring relatively soon in season, and they also seem to be quite interesting," said Stella. 

 

 

https://www.motorspo...gains/10566285/

[Mat13]

Ooh, baby. That sounds like some swingometers will be ablaze come testing.

[pup]

Who is this optimistic "Stella" they interviewed, and what have they done with Andrea?

Edited by pup, 16 January 2024 - 19:33.

[Mc_Silver]

Really intrigued to see correlation of the new infrastructure with on track performance. One of the most anticipated season for me since 2012. Everything related to the team looks more logical and sensible. I trust Andrea and Zak duo.

[mclarensmps]

I'm getting my hopes up. This is a bad thing for all of you, because I'm cursed. 

[gillesfan76]

If even half of what McLaren is saying turns out to be true, I’m already super excited for the season. I think this team has been written for too many years from their slow decline since 2013. But the fundamentals are there with their legendary reputation, rivalling Ferrari’s historic status, incredible infrastructure from Dennis’ days that just needed to be updated and wind tunnel brought into current tech, and now the last piece of the puzzle - great technical staff and drivers. They have all the ingredients now. I don’t think they will properly take the fight to Red Bull this season, I don’t think anyone will, but I at least hope they can take the fight to Red Bull in a handful of races. Anything more this season will exceed my expectations.

[f1rules]

a little more info on the matter from red bull and the importance of the suspension

https://www.motorspo...nance/10565150/

 

And yeah Stellas comments are intriguing to say the least. In itself actually not so much, he just confirm they havent plateaud yet with developments. Now what makes it interesting, is offcourse the big turnaround last year, and theyve been able to continue that incredible trajectory.

For me the interesting part will be, if they will introduce anti dive front suspension or other mechanical updates to help create a better more balanced allround platform. And then offcourse it will be interesting to see what merc and ferrari will do. The ferrari car had some real strengths, opposite of mclaren/red bull hence why, when rb was weak, the ferrari had the potential to be very strong, opposite of mclaren which had some of the same car characteristics as the red bull. Now if ferrari can keep those and solve their weaknesses, they could be very strong. Lastly merc. Well you never know. They seem to have been the furthest away concept wise, but they still somehow managed to stay reasonably close. Will be interesting if both merc/fer will follow the suspension route from mcl/rb with (pull/push) which is complete opposite of what they had,

 

But all in all, with mclarens current momentum, their obvious understanding of the rules and what makes a car fast in this era, the new tech tool additions, new tech directors, great drivers and stella, honestly i think they have the potential to fight for second maybe even upsetting rb on some tracks and for me they have the best cards on hand compared to ferrari and merc. But lets see

 

 

So the MCL38 will launch on the 14th of Feb

 

First car developed in the new windtunnel

 

Progress from last year to build on

 

Team says interaction between suspension and aero will be a key area for development 

Edited by f1rules, 17 January 2024 - 06:42.

[f1rules]

Really interesting, especially the part, if its true, that the new arrivals are in general happy with the direction mclaren went for with its 24 car,  

 

 

 

Does go into a fair bit on the technical side, at a high level.

[kumo7]

I wonder if Mika said something about the car already.

[rodlamas]

Why Mclaren thinks the MCL38 is already faster than the MCL60 (needs Autosport sub)

 

https://www.autospor...mcl60/10566387/

Edited by rodlamas, 17 January 2024 - 10:59.

[CPR]

Why Mclaren thinks the MCL38 is already faster than the MCL60 (needs Autosport sub)

 

https://www.autospor...mcl60/10566387/

 

I don't have a sub but it seems like a strange title to me. Why wouldn't a more developed car be faster than less developed car?

[CPR]

Really interesting, especially the part, if its true, that the new arrivals are in general happy with the direction mclaren went for with its 24 car,  

 

Yup. Lots of positives already.

[Quickshifter]

Fairly confident, McLaren will be 2nd/3rd best car out of the box but i am more interested in the gap to Redbull. If we are within half a second of Redbull in terms of race pace on different types of tracks i would be massively chuffed. After that the team can begin to chip away with their excellent track record of in season development.

Edited by Quickshifter, 17 January 2024 - 14:21.

[CPR]

Stella has been straight with us so far so if we take him at his word then assuming their simulations match reality then in the first race I'd expect the MCL38 to be faster than last year's Red Bull. It's difficult to do year-on-year comparisons precisely due to different tyres and weather but that's something we can watch for. We might well even see that in winter testing, depending on how much they push the car.

 

What the team can't do anything about is how much the others improve. The most they can do is improve consistently and rapidly, which they seem to be doing already. At least, they believe so, which is great to hear and they must be quite confident.

[rodlamas]

Fairly confident, McLaren will be 2nd/3rd best car out of the box but i am more interested in the gap to Redbull. If we are within half a second of Redbull in terms of race pace on different types of tracks i would be massively chuffed. After that the team can begin to chip away with their excellent track record of in season development.

I am pretty sure fastest team behind Red Bull will be Mclaren. But the main thing is: how big is going to be that gap.

[Organic]

I am pretty sure fastest team behind Red Bull will be Mclaren. But the main thing is: how big is going to be that gap.

How can you be confident of that at this point? 😅

All we've heard from McLaren is that they have not found diminishing returns and that they have developed well. It's all relative in this game

We don't know how Merc are doing. For starters we don't know if even RB will find a lot of time, however likely it seems

Edited by Organic, 18 January 2024 - 03:30.

[Beri]

Im still all for the idea that the Williams Thread has reintroduced last year; keep the Team and Car Threads under one Thread. And with good reason. Basically the same talk is happening on this Thread as on the McLaren Team Thread.

 

But those are my two cents.

[pacificquay]

Im still all for the idea that the Williams Thread has reintroduced last year; keep the Team and Car Threads under one Thread. And with good reason. Basically the same talk is happening on this Thread as on the McLaren Team Thread.

 

But those are my two cents.

Last year the technical and team threads worked well, no reason to think it won’t this time.

[chumma]

How can you be confident of that at this point? 😅

All we've heard from McLaren is that they have not found diminishing returns and that they have developed well. It's all relative in this game

We don't know how Merc are doing. For starters we don't know if even RB will find a lot of time, however likely it seems

McLaren are further down the development path with this concept. I think they should easily be the 2nd fastest team unless someone finds a silver bullet. Not only that, I think everyones blind faith in Merc is misplaced. They have shown nothing that says they even understand these rules or how to implement them. I think they may even be behind Aston Martin at the beginning of the season just due to teething issues with the concept.

I might be being way too optimistic, but something is different. McLaren are never this confident. They’ve got something special.

[Nobody]

Im still all for the idea that the Williams Thread has reintroduced last year; keep the Team and Car Threads under one Thread. And with good reason. Basically the same talk is happening on this Thread as on the McLaren Team Thread.

But those are my two cents.

No just wait until the driver fanboys show up, they will be two very different themed threads

[CPR]

For sure there is overlap between the two threads but I generally find that the split works well for the types of conversations I want to have.

[rodlamas]

I don't have a sub but it seems like a strange title to me. Why wouldn't a more developed car be faster than less developed car?

One thing is the MCL60 after a full year of racing & development.

 

The other thing is the MCL38 that is still on its very early days.

 

Not necessarily the new car is faster than the old one on its new iterations. Sometimes it will never be faster (Renault 2019 vs Renault 2018 is a good example of that).

[pup]

No just wait until the driver fanboys show up, they will be two very different themed threads

I thought we had trapped them in the Piastri race winner thread. Did they escape?

[kumo7]

I thought we had trapped them in the Piastri race winner thread. Did they escape?

 

At some point, boys will be bored of playing there. 

 

 

One thing is the MCL60 after a full year of racing & development.

 

The other thing is the MCL38 that is still on its very early days.

 

Not necessarily the new car is faster than the old one on its new iterations. Sometimes it will never be faster (Renault 2019 vs Renault 2018 is a good example of that).

 

Good preparation for some hick-ups for the testing days. But there were enough cases that a car is quick and dominant from day one. 

I do hope that Red Bull and Newey will go too deep into a (too) radical edge and start the 2024 season with their 2023 car. McLaren must be faster than 2023 Red Bull, and Mercedes and Ferrari should be in puberty! 

[CPR]

I do hope that Red Bull and Newey will go too deep into a (too) radical edge and start the 2024 season with their 2023 car. McLaren must be faster than 2023 Red Bull, and Mercedes and Ferrari should be in puberty! 

 

Would be nice but I wouldn't waste much time seriously hoping or expecting such a thing.

 

Even with all their troubles, Mercedes has still been strong. I wouldn't expect them to struggle for half a year to figure out their new car for example.

[mclarensmps]

That's very important. Sure there were a few races where Mercedes were REALLY slow; but all their complaints and self criticism is mostly based on where they expect themselves to be as opposed to how slow they are objectively. I'm not writing them off figuring out how to be quick out of the box. 

[rodlamas]

That's very important. Sure there were a few races where Mercedes were REALLY slow; but all their complaints and self criticism is mostly based on where they expect themselves to be as opposed to how slow they are objectively. I'm not writing them off figuring out how to be quick out of the box. 

Mercedes 2023 concept was really relying on their ability to lower their car close to the groud. Mclaren and Red Bull have followed another route and their performance was/is less ride height dependant.

 

Mercedes is switching their car concept for 2024. That has two main possibilites:

 

1) They will make a lot of progress and challenge the top.

2) They will endure a tough learning curve and other teams will have a better season.

 

Remains to be seen.

[kumo7]

Mercedes 2023 concept was really relying on their ability to lower their car close to the groud. Mclaren and Red Bull have followed another route and their performance was/is less ride height dependant.

 

Mercedes is switching their car concept for 2024. That has two main possibilites:

 

1) They will make a lot of progress and challenge the top.

2) They will endure a tough learning curve and other teams will have a better season.

 

Remains to be seen.

 

This indeed. 2024 McLaren can either be a reincarnation of 2022 Ferrari bathtub side pods, even more extreme, pure Sanchez, or extension of 2023 McLaren. 

We have to wait and see, and this is one reason for which I am questioning one day and convinced the other.

 

 

Would be nice but I wouldn't waste much time seriously hoping or expecting such a thing.

 

Even with all their troubles, Mercedes has still been strong. I wouldn't expect them to struggle for half a year to figure out their new car for example.

 

I think that Allison is a very smart soldier, that he choose to stay as the technical head, and not repeat what Bignotto did to his team. In a sense that I think Ferrari falling back wards is more certain than Mercedes going forwards, but if Mercedes putting themselves behind McLaren, I am not sure. 

 

Equally, for this to become clear, we have to wait.

[rodlamas]

This indeed. 2024 McLaren can either be a reincarnation of 2022 Ferrari bathtub side pods, even more extreme, pure Sanchez, or extension of 2023 McLaren. 

We have to wait and see, and this is one reason for which I am questioning one day and convinced the other.

 

 

 

I think that Allison is a very smart soldier, that he choose to stay as the technical head, and not repeat what Bignotto did to his team. In a sense that I think Ferrari falling back wards is more certain than Mercedes going forwards, but if Mercedes putting themselves behind McLaren, I am not sure. 

 

Equally, for this to become clear, we have to wait.

Sanchez has arrived less than 20 days ago. He will have 0 influence on the MCL38.

[jensfan09]

Sanchez has arrived less than 20 days ago. He will have 0 influence on the MCL38.

From early reports, it seems that Marshall and Sanchez are encouraged with the direction the team is heading with it's car design.

[This and that]

I would imagine they've continued with the last year design. I'm only saying that based on what AD said the other day about them not hitting the ceiling just yet.

[Maustinsj]

I foresee disappointment in testing where “we weren’t ambitious enough with our targets”.

There, has that reset the swingometer now?

[mclarensmps]

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

[Mc_Silver]

Sanchez has arrived less than 20 days ago. He will have 0 influence on the MCL38.

They'll have lots of influence in terms of guiding the engineers to the right development path and many more things behind the scenes. First few months will probably be about familiarisation and integration process and then they will start working flat-out on the development of MCL39 before the summer break.

[kumo7]

Sanchez has arrived less than 20 days ago. He will have 0 influence on the MCL38.

 

Some time a go I posed this question to this forum, if Sanchez could go to a cafe with a McLaren engineer, the answer was yes.

Still I dunno what it means, I think going to cafe in England while living in Italy is even more difficult than having post-cards exchanges.

 

 

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

 

Friday alcohol is not so enjoyable only in some limited occasions. Next one will be better.

Edited by kumo7, 21 January 2024 - 01:04.

[frosty125]

The thing that gives me the most hope is that Stella has said that they believe they are on the same development trajectory that they had in 2023 which is the sort of trajectory they need to try and take the fight to RB and get ahead of Merc/Ferrari

[Red5ive]

I just hope that for once they can hit the ground running with this one.

 

Can do without another major design fault that takes half the season to correct.

[CPR]

I just hope that for once they can hit the ground running with this one.

 

Can do without another major design fault that takes half the season to correct.

 

A smooth test leading to a good first race would be a great way to start the season.

[kumo7]

A smooth test leading to a good first race would be a great way to start the season.

 

Plus, I have seen so many occasions and events where the moment had changed the real power balance. 

[H0R]

I found McLaren operations kind of lethargic until Stella took over, so even if the new car lacks in certain regards I expect these problems to be quickly adressed. With Sanchez and Marshall on boarrd I am cautiously optimistic for a quite successful campaign from early on.

That being said I do not expect a win on merit as I honestly fear that Red Bull will be even stronger in 24 than they were in 23.

[BertoC]

Im not even thinking about RBR this year. The main goal is beat Ferrari and Merc and finally establish as a top team.

Edited by BertoC, 21 January 2024 - 10:05.

[blakey]

I fully expect mclaren to compete with rb from the start and wouldnt be surprised to see mclaren win the first race of the season. Where ever that may be

[CPR]

That being said I do not expect a win on merit as I honestly fear that Red Bull will be even stronger in 24 than they were in 23.

 

I think that's a possibility we should take seriously. Zak has said similar things.

 

At the start of 2023, Red Bull were about 1s faster in qualifying than they were in 2022, but by the end of 2023 their year-on-year improvement was quite a bit smaller. We've also seen that they didn't bring much in the way of upgrades during the year. The fear is that didn't bring out upgrades because they didn't need to and decided to save money instead - which is now being put into the 2024 car. So let's say McLaren gain 0.5s over winter while Red Bull gain 0.75s - suddenly the gap will have widened. 

[ARTGP]

I fully expect mclaren to compete with rb from the start and wouldnt be surprised to see mclaren win the first race of the season. Where ever that may be

 

You mean Bahrain?

[blakey]

You mean Bahrain?

Yes but right now with trouble in the middle east dont count on it.

[ARTGP]

Yes but right now with trouble in the middle east dont count on it.

Oh ok I see.

[SparkPlug86]

Yes but right now with trouble in the middle east dont count on it.

 

As far as the middle east goes, Bahrain is fairly far away from the fighting. Race should be ok.