172 replies to this topic

[P123]

 

All of this, and especially the bold. It's still 'my sport', but I also preferred the days when it was a bit more niche and nerdy and almost anyone who liked it was into the nuts and bolts and nuance of it all. 

 

But yeah, of course there's the engine sound that's taken a lot of it away, but even more than that for me is the heavy, oversized cars. I loved Brundle's comment during the race about the cars "biggest mistake F1 ever made ... way too big and heavy".

 

Brundle's comment about the hybrid engines? Sure took him a long time to finally say it.

 

These cars are big, thick, heavy, and ugly and look slow af in slow to medium speed corners, changing direction so poorly. They just look like tanks compared to the old ones. I've been watching some of the older races recently and it is absolutely striking how much nimbler and more agile the pre-2014 cars were at low to medium speeds. Also striking is how much smaller they were, because they were so much lighter & didn't need huge, dramatically expanded floors in order to make enough downforce to turn. Even with the sound muted, those older cars just look racier than the current cars - more 'athletic' and explosive (no pun intended) if you will. I was also struck by how absolutely exhausted the drivers looked after every race, not just the very hot races. They were really working hard.

 

 

In this video the RB1 looks like a toy compared to the RB19.....  

 

And all the effort for the 2022 regs. to then still need DRS, which has been allowed to pollute one-make formulae, is a staggering level of failure.

 

But F1 has always had domination and boring races. 

[AustinF1]

2023 was a rubbish season because one team dominated and that team only have one decent driver. That’s a recipe for a rubbish season, at least in terms of who’s going to win every weekend.

Yep. Until Nico retired, Merc was as dominant in the W/L column as RBR is now. In the first 3 years of this PU era, of 59 races they lost a total of 8 races. 86% win rate, but there was a battle within the team, so many people didn't care. Since Nico retired, there has been one season where the WDC was really in doubt.

 

Since the start of 2022, RBR has lost 6 of 45 races, with the same 86% win rate.

 

After Nico retired (and in large part imho because Nico retired & was replaced by 'excellent wingman' Bottas), Merc wasn't as dominant. But Lewis winning the WDC was more of a foregone conclusion than when Nico was fighting him, much as it is now with Perez in the #2 RBR. Bottas was no match for Lewis and was never intended to be one. In 2017 & 2018 (the 4th & 5th years of the PU era), Ferrari was finally able to put up a fight, but in the end they didn't really get very close, and never would have had any hope with a better driver (such as Nico) in the Merc #2 seat.

 

The funny thing though is that despite all the stick Perez takes, in the dominant years of each car, Perez has scored about the same points per race as Bottas. He's finished P2 and a close P3 (by 3 points). Bottas finished P3 and P5 his first 2 years at Merc. They're also not far off in terms of race wins in the WCC years. Bottas 10 in 5 years, and Perez 4 in 2 years.

[AustinF1]

In this video the RB1 looks like a toy compared to the RB19.....  

 

And all the effort for the 2022 regs. to then still need DRS, which has been allowed to pollute one-make formulae, is a staggering level of failure.

 

But F1 has always had domination and boring races. 

Wow. That is nothing short of shocking.

 

And re: the dominance, yep. I just added my 2 cents on that in the post after yours. For me, back then I could look past the dominance because the cars were the stars, followed closely by the drivers The cars were all just so incredible to watch and hear, and now they just aren't. I still have no problem with the dominance though.

 

And yeah also re: DRS. Several years and how much money spent (?) by the OWG, only to succeed in making the cars able to follow closely - and then have it all wiped away because a team or two got it all wrong and couldn't figure out porpoising.

Edited by AustinF1, 04 March 2024 - 20:49.

[PlatenGlass]

I was thinking - F1 got lots of new viewers from Drive to Survive. Without that, how would viewing figures be now? I don't normally do this hyperbole about the state of F1, but I think we're at an all-time low.

[AncientLurker]

In this video the RB1 looks like a toy compared to the RB19..... 

I would argue that the RB19 looks like a truck compared to a properly sized F1 car.

[DCapps]

Funny how we get these same threads every year. So original.

 

No I don’t think F1 is any more rubbish that is was before. Every time someone creates a thread like this it’s the exact same complaints. You’ll see the exact same in a thread from when I joined back in 2010 too. I think it’s the phenomenon of people growing up, learning more about the sport and getting somewhat jaded.

 

Actually, the F1 racing of today bears almost no resemblance to whatever it was during the early postwar years until into the late-1970s. 

Not rose-tinted retro-eyeglasses, but simply the fundamental changes that began in the late-1970s that were incorporated into the new championship in 1980/1981.

I used to assign a book, The Good Old Days: They Were Terrible! (Otto Bettmann, Jr.) because too many confuse perspective with nostalgia.

Today's racing is infinitely safer than what it was in prior to the 1980s when safety finally started to almost catch up with the issue of cars crashing.

Thank you Jackie Stewart, etc...

 

Today, F1 is a a commercial enterprise. There has always been a business aspect to the sport, but over the past half century that has come to be front and center of tings.

The IndyCar series, NASCAR Cup series, WRX, etc, etc, are all enterprise-based endeavors.

The numbers ($$$, Euros, SF, whatever) involved have far outstripped inflation by light years, but people still have some level of interest in such activities.

 

There is a reason that F1 is chasing the money and having events where they are these days.

 

If the F1 championship vanished today, I doubt that I would miss it. Or even care.

When you have about a dozen people changing tires, well...

Not to mention that 2023 put 1952 to shame!

 

Then again, this is my 70th year following motor sport, so perhaps I have a slightly different perspective.

Not necessarily a "better" perspective, simply a different one, simply one based upon longevity and being a historian.

Change is inevitable and the context changes: Why aren't F1 cars actually Fe cars if the point is to advance automotive technologies and wean away from fossil fuels?

Beside, how many F1 "fans" even have a clue or even care about the technical part of the racing? I mean, REALLY? It has long been the bullshit part of racing and it still works...

[DW46]

What’s the significance of 1980?

[Jambo]

I have been watching F1 since the mid eighties and every single decade/era I have watched has been unfavourably compared to whatever a persons golden era was, aka the time in their life when F1 was most important to them. F1 has always had years of dominance and “boring” eras and has always got through them.

I will say I could do with less of the chats with team principals and the like but it does seem to have brought in a tonne of fans through drive to survive, for good or no.

[AncientLurker]

What’s the significance of 1980?

1980/81 saw survival cells become mandatory and the safety of tracks started being stepped up. I think it marked a key pivot point where safety of the drivers became the primary focus over the speed of the cars. 

 

That is probably only part of it, DCapps can probably answer more thoroughly.

[ivanalesi]

I watched the WEC Qatar race, it was fantastic. I'll spend more time with WEC probably. F1's problem is that the budget cap is fake & there are 3 teams with a chance to win. The rest just fill up the grid. In WEC, even Glickenhaus could win. Yeah, they don't have an entry & they were fan favorites, but you got action. So many different leaders & drama till the last lap of a super long race.

 

I can't believe I wrote this, I've always been F1 die hard fan, but F1 needs to get it's act together. The entertainment market has never been so competitive. It's not OK the same guy to dominate for years in 2024. It's not 1992, 2004 or even 2018. The world is very different. DTS is done, all momentum is lost, they must act now to save the sport from getting into a big decline.

[DCapps]

What’s the significance of 1980?

 

In mid-April 1980, the FIA ended the championship series that began in 1950 as the end of the 1980 season and created a new FIA Formula One World Championship series to take effect on 1 January 1981.

The FIA owned the commercial rights to the new 1981 series, something that it lacked with the previous series.

In addition, this also combined the sporting and technical regulations for the championship into a single set of regulations.

 

This arrangement meant that the FIA now literally owned the world championship and could monetize it, which it did.

This also allowed Ecclestone to vastly enrich himself...

And, it also made F1 a closed shop, among other things.

 

Contrary to what some seem to think, even today, it radically changed the direction of this sport.

[William Hunt]

F1 gets more rubbish every year, whilst WEC becomes better every year. WEC in Qatar was great, looking forward to Imola. F2 is also great. Don't get why people don't watch F2 or boring F1.

[RekF1]

https://www.motorspo...to-the-unknown/

Matt Bishop, on why F1 is a bit shitty. He pulls no punches on pretty much every current affair (lol).

"Personally, I preferred F1 when team principals were heavy on gravitas and limelight-shy. I am thinking of giants of the sport such as Ron Dennis, Frank Williams, Ken Tyrrell, Colin Chapman et al. I also enjoyed F1 better when the on-track action was not so relentlessly predictable. A recent-ish example that springs to mind is the 2010 season, which, like 2023 and 2024, kicked off with a Bahrain Grand Prix.

Instead of the on-track samey-ness that 2024 (so far), 2023 and indeed 2022 provided, 2010 offered exhilarating variety. The 2010 Bahrain Grand Prix was won by Fernando Alonso — on his Ferrari debut. The next six grands prix were won by four different drivers: Jenson Button (the reigning world champion, who had joined McLaren from Brawn, the team with which he had just triumphed), Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull), Button again, Mark Webber (Red Bull), Webber again, and Lewis Hamilton (McLaren)".

Good read.

[Anderis]

And 2010 didn't even have that much variety compared to 2009 or 2012. It had 3 teams far ahead of everyone. I guess that's still great compared to one team far ahead of everyone. But not anywhere near the best out of that era.

[DaddyCool]

I'm not a doomer, downer, elitist, whatever but to me F1 has hit a perfect storm of absolute boredom:

 

• Total dominance by RB/Max (again, full credit to them)
• On-track action is almost nonexistent apart from DRS fly-bys
• No strategy, everyone is pacing themselves to the optimal X-stop tyre delta
• While the cars look cool aeasthetically, they look too big and sluggish
• Stewarding / race control is a complete joke 
• No uncertainties - bulletproof reliability, no proper wet races
• Political BS from FIA, corporate BS from FOM

 

Used to watch religiously for 25+ years, now it's something that I put on the background while I'm doing other stuff. WEC in Qatar was way better even if you just watched parts of it

[ANF]

Thank god Indycar starts in St Pete next weekend

Indycar at St Pete was a snore-fest.

• Fuel saving
• Lift and coast
• Similar strategies
• Overtaking in the pits only

All in all, a bit rubbish.

[EvilPhil II]

Watching the WEC on those Michelin's darting about with the agility of cats despite being actually slower overall really got me thinking over the weekend. 

 

WEC has the different engine notes that we last heard in F1 during 1995. And it has the agility, that dart like movement that is spectacular to watch regardless of the racing, which F1 last saw in 2010 but particularly so in 2003-2005. 

[aportinga]

Indycar at St Pete was a snore-fest.

• Fuel saving
• Lift and coast
• Similar strategies
• Overtaking in the pits only

All in all, a bit rubbish.

 

Yes - both races were terrible.

[Oulton]

Yes - both races were terrible.

Both Jeddah and St Pete are terrible circuits for racing. Cars line up at the start fastest to slowest, something may happen in first couple of laps. then it's follow-my-leader and manage the car at rookie-driver pace. Actually, that's F1 right now apart from at circuits like Silverstone.

Edited by Oulton, 13 March 2024 - 22:52.

[azza200]

WEC/IMSA Hypercars has the perfect balance of what the teams and manufactures can create for their cars. Sure there is BOP the freedom the teams can do creating their cars with their engines, will the car FWD or RWD will it have a turbo or be N/A yes there is restrictions in place in the engine and other sides but teams are free to do what they want. 19 hypercars in Qatar but all the cars look and sound different and produce great racing. 

[ARTGP]

2024 WEC/IMSA are some of the only series that I am currently watching where I go into a race weekend having no idea who is going to win. 

Edited by ARTGP, 13 March 2024 - 23:01.

[1player]

F2 is also great. Don't get why people don't watch F2 or boring F1.

Might sound silly, but because I find it hard to follow, with the entire grid made of red, blue or orange cars (had nobody invented new colours yet?), brand names or liveries that do not match my mental model. And simply, I do not know who to root for - which is the reason Drive to Survive was instrumental in attracting people to F1.

But I'll give you that: the few races I've watched have been very tight and fun till the end, something we haven't seen in F1 since Britain 2022.

[Cliff]

It all depends what you follow and who you're a fan of I guess. The 90's had domination, it just flipped to a different team every 2 years. I loved the Schumacher domination. Then from 2005 - 2013 had some interesting seasons, but I didn't care for anyone specific so I wasn't as invested and found it quite meh. Then 2014 - 2020 were the absolute dark ages of F1 for me. Now that finally a driver is dominating again that I am a fan of, this is my second golden age. It's all about perspective, but honestly the actual racing in my opinion was even more boring from the mid 90's till about 2009. Then it was pretty good till 2016 and utter shite again from 2017 till 2021.