9673 replies to this topic

[f1rules]

Well if its a hard management style, then he should be ok, just ask Tost, now if its the other about sending pics or other bad behavior towards a woman, he is in more serious trouble, we will know soon im sure

[Grippy]

It would be interesting to know if anyone at De Telegraaf has said anything online about pulling the story on lawyers' advice, but I don't even know how to google in Dutch.

The story is still up on @telegraaf's twitter (assuming it is still a genuine account...)

translation

A shock goes through F1. Christian Horner is accused of inappropriate behavior. An investigation has already been started into the team boss, says Formula 1 reporter Erik van Haren.
telegraaf.nl/video/691958912…
Christian Horner accused: 'The fact that Red Bull says this is significant'

A shock goes through Formula 1. Christian Horner is accused of inappropriate behavior. An independent investigation has already been started into the team boss, Formula 1 reporter says...

 

It is also still up on telegraaf.nl

 

I can't see any indication lawyers have pulled/amended it but I'm only using search and translate as I don't speak Dutch.

[FirstnameLastname]

Parent company put out a press release rather than the RBR team.

Perhaps a show of power from the real owners…

[Autodromo]

It is interesting how the reactions here do/will/do not link to the reactions about Susie Wolff.  In this case it is more of an internal investigation, but in both cases there were a lot of people who jumped straight to "guilty!"

 

Innocent until proven guilty is for a court of law, though.  This is a business and the rules are different because the impact is different - they have sponsors and followers to appease.

[Victor]

I accuse him of too many F1 wins in 2023! Shame on him!

[ClubmanGT]

Has someone finally complained about that god-awful nude photoshoot from the 1990s

[JL14]

what I find incredible is he hasn't been suspended pending the outcome of the investigation 

 

Wouldn't be the first woman to find it all okay as long as she is/thinks she will be benefitting from it. 

But when the other person doesn't play game anymore (loses interest / realizes what he's screwing up) suddenly has issues with it

[TennisUK]

I imagine Ted Kravitz opened a beer tonight.

[CharlesChornley]

I have worked at RBR for over 20 years and I just wanted to say one thing. Firstly, none of us at the factory are any wiser as to what’s happened and this post is nothing to do with speculation or rumour.

What I did want to comment on is Christian’s character. I read a lot of comments on here saying he’s “like this” or his attitude is “like that”. It’s simply not true, he’s a natural born leader and literally everyone at work thinks very highly of him.

When he took over from Dave Pitchforth the workforce was incredibly disappointed. We all loved Dave and didn’t really know anything about Christian. It took no time at all for us all to warm to him. He makes a point to say hello or good morning to everyone, he’s approachable and he always has a smile on his face, even during tense or stressful times.

Like I said, I don’t know what the legal issues are here, but I won’t just let people say untruths about a man who I know to be a bloody decent bloke.

[Hellenic tifosi]

Wouldn't be the first woman to find it all okay as long as she is/thinks she will be benefitting from it.
But when the other person doesn't play game anymore (loses interest / realizes what he's screwing up) suddenly has issues with it

If that's the case then surely Horner has the messages that prove that it was consensual, at the time the photos were sent.

Edited by Hellenic tifosi, 05 February 2024 - 20:31.

[Burtros]

I imagine Ted Kravitz opened a beer tonight.

Unlike many on this forum I suspect Ted has enough sense to wait until more is revealed.

Edited by Burtros, 05 February 2024 - 20:34.

[r4mses]

I'm no fan of Horner all at. The way this "story" broke is disgusting. Not even an ounce of concrete accusations is provided -- let alone proof. Just nebulous blabla and speculations all over the place. Disgusting.

Edited by r4mses, 05 February 2024 - 20:35.

[Risil]

I'm no fan of Horner all at. The way this "story" broke is disgusting. Not even an ounce of concrete accusations is provided -- let alone proof. Just nebulous blabla and speculations all over the place. Disgusting.

I wonder how those media outlets got hold of the story. Quite often when the news comes out and the story is a bit underdeveloped and speculative it's a leak, and those can be done for a range of motives.

[MikeTekRacing]

I wonder how those media outlets got hold of the story. Quite often when the news comes out and the story is a bit underdeveloped and speculative it's a leak, and those can be done for a range of motives.

it could be the other side leaked it - to do damage or force a resolution/settlement

it could be he is indeed wrong and RB leaked it to force him out once the outcome is released

it could be a 3rd party with knowledge made an extra buck..

[Alfisti]

it could be the other side leaked it - to do damage or force a resolution/settlement

it could be he is indeed wrong and RB leaked it to force him out once the outcome is released

it could be a 3rd party with knowledge made an extra buck..

 

[Lesky]

F1 without Horner Vs Toto wont be the same

[JL14]

On Dutch TV someone from De Telegraaf just said that it's of 'sexual nature' and that they have it all confirmed by Red Bull.

Edited by JL14, 05 February 2024 - 21:07.

[CharlesWinstone]

On Dutch TV someone from De Telegraaf just said that is of 'sexual nature' and that they have it all confirmed by Red Bull.

Please supply some prove that he is guilty or be silent forever.

Sorry i just hate these kind of posts.

[JL14]

Don't think you will get more proof atm than reporters stating what they 'know'. And if Red Bull has it confirmed to them, that basically is the proof...

 

Please supply some prove that he is guilty or be silent forever.

Sorry i just hate these kind of posts.

Edited by JL14, 05 February 2024 - 21:09.

[Osiris]

Please supply some prove that he is guilty or be silent forever.

Sorry i just hate these kind of posts.

 

Looks like they just posted information from "De Telegraaf" explaining what the allegations are pertaining and they were confirmed by Red Bull.

 

I don't see anything in that post that where he is implying that he is guilty.  

 

The posters can't help what the readers "infer." 

[SophieB]

Don't think you will get more proof atm than reporters stating what they 'know'. And if Red Bull has it confirmed to them, that basically is the proof...

I haven’t seen the programme but all you’ve written is that the journalist said that Red Bull have confirmed that the allegations are about sexual misconduct as opposed to other professional forms of misconduct. It doesn’t sound like an admission of vicarious guilt by the parent company as written?

[Frankbullitt]

Have Red Bull confirmed the nature of the reports? If not, it’s pure speculation. We have 2 different stories regarding that now…it’s laborious.

[Sash1]

You can deepfake anything these days. It needs proper investigation whatever the case is. Not a kazillion couch journalists with X.

[Burtros]

These are the known facts - we still know next to nothing.

https://www.theguard...ull-formula-one

[Marklar]

With a accusation like this your days are numbered unless you fight it in court and win. If you do don't his reputation is tarnished (unless yor name is Trump). This unfortunally is how it works.
Obviously this will have a huge impact on Red Bull moving into the 2024 season.

actually history has shown that the best way to fight a accusation is to let it go until everyone has forgotten about it (with a nice NDA for the accuser etc). anyone who has tried the way over the court just made the accusations more prominent, and thus the association people have with your person. Plus when you take things to court the book is opening on anything else you may have done. This may be innocent or less innocent than what you are accused of, but regardless, it's not something you want.

Also the court of public opinion differs a lot from the court of law: people are cleared so often in court but the evidence that was heared was shocking enough for plenty of people to form a different opinion. Easiest way to prevent this is to not go to court in the first place.

Obviously this is unfair, but this is how it works.

[Boxerevo]

We will have to wait. Read about it being a photo sent to a woman.

Anyway, you know if you commit this level of mistake, all your enemies will jump in and your wife will put out. Tough day to Horner.

But nobody is sure.

Edited by Boxerevo, 05 February 2024 - 21:23.

[Autodromo]

Have Red Bull confirmed the nature of the reports? If not, it’s pure speculation. We have 2 different stories regarding that now…it’s laborious.

I believe they have confirmed that they are investigating Horner for inappropriate behavior.  And he has denied doing anything wrong.  I think that is all we "know" so far.  Anything else is just rumors (which may be true, but do not have actual named and confirmed sources).

[Thursday]

it could be the other side leaked it - to do damage or force a resolution/settlement

it could be he is indeed wrong and RB leaked it to force him out once the outcome is released

it could be a 3rd party with knowledge made an extra buck..

Horner broke the news himself because he was jealous of Hamilton getting all the attention.

Domenicali trying to further distract from the rejection of Andretti.

 

The two different stories I'm reading are controlling behaviour and sexual misconduct. I cant be the only one that thinks they can both be true at the same time.

Or it could all be Horner telling saucy jokes in the canteen. We don't know.

Edited by Thursday, 05 February 2024 - 21:27.

[Osiris]

actually history has shown that the best way to fight a accusation is to let it go until everyone has forgotten about it (with a nice NDA for the accuser etc). anyone who has tried the way over the court just made the accusations more prominent, and thus the association people have with your person. Plus when you take things to court the book is opening on anything else you may have done. This may be innocent or less innocent than what you are accused of, but regardless, it's not something you want.

Also the court of public opinion differs a lot from the court of law: people are cleared so often in court but the evidence that was heared was shocking enough for plenty of people to form a different opinion. Easiest way to prevent this is to not go to court in the first place.

Obviously this is unfair, but this is how it works.

 

Johnny Depp says "HELLO"

 

Although it took how many years to prove it was wrong.

[Osiris]

 

The two different stories I'm reading are controlling behaviour and sexual misconduct. 

 

 

IIRC, Mosley said both can be true

[1player]

Lots of people playing judge, jury and executioner in this thread. Y'all need a better hobby.

[loki]

Apparently it was determined he thought the Pussycat Dolls were a better band than the Spice Girls…

[Marklar]

Johnny Depp says "HELLO"

Although it took how many years to prove it was wrong.

Johnny Depp is a great example.

He has convinced people out there (and a jury) that he was innocent (whether he actually was is a different question, even if I agree that his ex was at least as bad). But he has convinced as many people who before his court case knew not too many of the details that he is a horrible person.

Before he started to take the legal route he had somewhat of a career. He was casted in high profile movies even after he was accussed, heck Amber Heard was not even his first accuser! Now he has nothing.

Edited by Marklar, 05 February 2024 - 21:49.

[lewislorenzo]

I don’t think Max will care if Horner stays or goes

[Dalton007]

The Lewis move to Ferrari and the Horner allegations -- I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. 

[Marklar]

Horner broke the news himself because he was jealous of Hamilton getting all the attention.
Domenicali trying to further distract from the rejection of Andretti.

The two different stories I'm reading are controlling behaviour and sexual misconduct. I cant be the only one that thinks they can both be true at the same time.
Or it could all be Horner telling saucy jokes in the canteen. We don't know.

sexual is also so broad. Like, I'm not excusing any of it, but there is a difference if someone rapes you vs some middle aged dude makes a dumb ill-informed joke. The problem is when you hear sexual you think first of the former (or something similar), which is not fair.

Edited by Marklar, 05 February 2024 - 21:52.

[Bendo]

If not true i would sew the Telegraaf for at least 500 million.

Do you think it's a stich up?

[loki]

I think I’ve found a copy of the pic… 

 

[JL14]

I haven’t seen the programme but all you’ve written is that the journalist said that Red Bull have confirmed that the allegations are about sexual misconduct as opposed to other professional forms of misconduct. It doesn’t sound like an admission of vicarious guilt by the parent company as written?

 

No, do I say that then?

No.

[le chat noir]

Is he responsible for naming the sister team?

[SophieB]

No, do I say that then?
No.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say then.

On Dutch TV someone from De Telegraaf just said that it's of 'sexual nature' and that they have it all confirmed by Red Bull.

 
 

Don't think you will get more proof atm than reporters stating what they 'know'. And if Red Bull has it confirmed to them, that basically is the proof...

[smr]

Tbh this thread highlights everything wrong with modern day society. People sat behind a phone at home on their sofa think they are judge jury and executioner when they have no facts at all.

Its embarrassing to read

[Stephane]

he said what someone said on tv, and that the proof of what he said was on tv. That's all.

[Stephane]

Tbh this thread highlights everything wrong with modern day society. People sat behind a phone at home on their sofa think they are judge jury and executioner when they have no facts at all.

Its embarrassing to read

 

And then you have some people claiming they are better than others....

[andysaint]

Tbh this thread highlights everything wrong with modern day society. People sat behind a phone at home on their sofa think they are judge jury and executioner when they have no facts at all.

Its embarrassing to read

In all honesty threads like this should be locked. There is stuff written here that could be construed as litigious and trial by social media goes far too far. People need to get a grip of themselves.

[BoDarvelle]

The Lewis move to Ferrari and the Horner allegations -- I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. 

[Dolph]

Tbh this thread highlights everything wrong with modern day society. People sat behind a phone at home on their sofa think they are judge jury and executioner when they have no facts at all.

Its embarrassing to read

 

Actually, this thread is nothing like this. 

[Frankbullitt]

I believe they have confirmed that they are investigating Horner for inappropriate behavior. And he has denied doing anything wrong. I think that is all we "know" so far. Anything else is just rumors (which may be true, but do not have actual named and confirmed sources).

Yup, that’s what I had figured. I know one…less than reliable, tabloid has said it’s about pictures. Another has said it’s a reference to management style.

[theblackangus]

The two different stories I'm reading are controlling behaviour and sexual misconduct. I cant be the only one that thinks they can both be true at the same time.

 

 

(Completely Joking here)

Maybe its bondage, so its both!
 

Edited by theblackangus, 05 February 2024 - 22:30.

[Boxerevo]

Yup, that’s what I had figured. I know one…less than reliable, tabloid has said it’s about pictures. Another has said it’s a reference to management style.

Can be a internal coup too and Horner be 100% innocent.