70 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

@autosport

Two top FIA legal department executives with a strong involvement in #F1 are leaving the organisation as a recent exodus of staff members from the governing body continues.

 

Governance and regulatory director Pierre Ketterer and head of commercial legal affairs Edward Floydd, both of whom had a hand in Concorde Agreement negotiations on behalf of the FIA, are departing.

Ketterer, who will take up a new role at the International Olympic Committee in April, joined the FIA in 2010.

He has long been regarded as one of the key legal players in the organisation, representing it in disciplinary cases both in F1 and across the broader spectrum of the sport as well as in external matters, and he was heavily also involved in compliance issues.

 

https://www.autospor...ation/10573118/

 

 

 

 

[pdac]

@autosport

Two top FIA legal department executives with a strong involvement in #F1 are leaving the organisation as a recent exodus of staff members from the governing body continues.

 

 

 

 

https://www.autospor...ation/10573118/

 

 

 

 

But is this rats leaving a sinking ship or bad apples being rooted out by a new broom that is sweeping clean?

Edited by pdac, 06 February 2024 - 19:38.

[Sterzo]

But is this rats leaving a sinking ship or bad apples being rooted out by a new broom that is sweeping clean?

Be careful not to repeat that in an official FIA press conference, or you'll be penalised for mixed metaphors.

[AncientLurker]

A lawyer moving from FIA to IOC. Takes a certain legal skill set to work in those orgs I suppose.

[H0R]

Not sure if a legal skill set or a lack of decency is more important.

[jcbc3]

Apparently he was working with Todt on the Concorde agreement. And may I then say that he did a shitty job as has been amply demonstrated the last week.

[ensign14]

But is this rats leaving a sinking ship or bad apples being rooted out by a new broom that is sweeping clean?

You don't want to spoil the barrel mid-stream.

[Dolph]

But is this rats leaving a sinking ship or bad apples being rooted out by a new broom that is sweeping clean?

Arent there any other options in life other than the ones that involve a lot of drama?

Anyway I think its sour apples boarding a rising ship.

Edited by Dolph, 07 February 2024 - 01:13.

[pdac]

Arent there any other options in life other than the ones that involve a lot of drama?

Anyway I think its sour apples boarding a rising ship.

 

People always like to see a bunch of isolated incidents and try to see common factors that link them together in an attempt to see a pattern that explains them. That's why, for example, we have the periodic table. So it's no surprise that when it appears that an abnormal number of people seem to be leaving an organisation, there are attempts to look for common factors in order to find an explanation for the 'abnormality'. Of course, there may not be any abnormality and it's simply a greater awareness of a normal phenomenon.

[Sterzo]

There is a hard hitting article in today's Times (London) by Owen Slot, titled 'Why are so many women leaving top jobs at the FIA?'

 

In addition to chief executive Natalie Robyn, the article says:

 

"The previous HR director, Julie Legendre, had left the post in January. Onika Miller, the head of the FIA’s innovation fund, left in April last year. Shaila-Ann Rao, the interim secretary-general for motorsport, left at the end of 2022 alleging “unacceptable” behaviour from Ben Sulayem. That’s a lot of senior female executives to lose.'

 

'In January this year, Deborah Mayer, who was the president of the FIA Women in Motorsport Commission, also quit. When asked by The Times this week if she believed there is a fair and equal place for women in motorsport, Mayer did not comment.'

 

The article also implies that a male executive resigned too, because of concerns about the quality of investigations into their allegations.

 

It's behind a paywall, but here's the link:

https://www.thetimes...t-fia-v52d506wb

[ANF]

There is a hard hitting article in today's Times (London) by Owen Slot, titled 'Why are so many women leaving top jobs at the FIA?'
 
In addition to chief executive Natalie Robyn, the article says:
 
"The previous HR director, Julie Legendre, had left the post in January. Onika Miller, the head of the FIA’s innovation fund, left in April last year. Shaila-Ann Rao, the interim secretary-general for motorsport, left at the end of 2022 alleging “unacceptable” behaviour from Ben Sulayem. That’s a lot of senior female executives to lose.'
 
'In January this year, Deborah Mayer, who was the president of the FIA Women in Motorsport Commission, also quit. When asked by The Times this week if she believed there is a fair and equal place for women in motorsport, Mayer did not comment.'
 
The article also implies that a male executive resigned too, because of concerns about the quality of investigations into their allegations.
 
It's behind a paywall, but here's the link:
https://www.thetimes...t-fia-v52d506wb

Thanks for sharing. Important information behind paywalls tends to be ignored.

Edited by ANF, 17 May 2024 - 09:47.

[pdac]

It seems to me that there's only three reasons why so many are leaving:

 

1. They were on a cushy number before and now things are changing

2. They are good people who dislike the changes that are being made now

3. It's all just co-incidence and these people are just natural churn

 

Discounting #3, there must be big changes being made, which are not to people's liking. Personally, I suspect it's reason #2.

[Myrvold]

It seems to me that there's only three reasons why so many are leaving:

1. They were on a cushy number before and now things are changing
2. They are good people who dislike the changes that are being made now
3. It's all just co-incidence and these people are just natural churn

Discounting #3, there must be big changes being made, which are not to people's liking. Personally, I suspect it's reason #2.

On #1 FIA has increased in size since the new boss arrived? Some of the ones that have left is his new people as well?
#2 That is a possibility.
#3 Unlikely.

And

#4 Toxic environment, starting from the top.

[pdac]

On #1 FIA has increased in size since the new boss arrived? Some of the ones that have left is his new people as well?
#2 That is a possibility.
#3 Unlikely.

And

#4 Toxic environment, starting from the top.

 

Increased size and new people going is part of what I would consider natural churn (#3) and the toxic environment was part of what I thought about with #2. But if you want #4, then that's what I see as the likely one.

[FLB]

Increased size and new people going is part of what I would consider natural churn (#3) and the toxic environment was part of what I thought about with #2. But if you want #4, then that's what I see as the likely one.

The FIA hasn't increaed in size since MBS took over. In fact, it started growing massively under Todt (EX: The FIA's Action for Road Safety).

[Secretariat]

I will add to the potential mix of reasons. I wonder if some of the exodus is indicative that the FIA will move out of Europe.

Edited by Secretariat, 18 May 2024 - 13:03.

[pdac]

The FIA hasn't increaed in size since MBS took over. In fact, it started growing massively under Todt (EX: The FIA's Action for Road Safety).

 

Then I misunderstood the points you were trying to make. The fact is, though, that either it's just natural staff turnover or else people are disgruntled for some reason. Of the reasons for which they might be disgruntled, to me it falls into whether they had some advantages in the past that are no longer there or that some undesirable things that were not there before are being pushed into the mix - such as toxic culture or (as suggested by Secretariat) relocation.

[ensign14]

I will add to the potential mix of reasons. I wonder if some of the exodus is indicative that the FIA will move out of Europe.

Not just the FIA, but nearly everyone. Saudi et al bribe the TPLACs to get hold of things like World Cups, more Grands Prix than there are inhabitants, unification boxing matches &c and then change the rules so they can never be voted out.

And multinationals don't care because they'd rather flog trainers to the Chinese than think about any nation's own interest.

[Secretariat]

Not just the FIA, but nearly everyone. Saudi et al bribe the TPLACs to get hold of things like World Cups, more Grands Prix than there are inhabitants, unification boxing matches &c and then change the rules so they can never be voted out.

And multinationals don't care because they'd rather flog trainers to the Chinese than think about any nation's own interest.

I don't know enough about what's happening more broadly in Europe regarding other sports. However, I will naively say these entities (business, sport, and so on) that are moving, or thinking about moves don't have to if they don't want to. There was even speculation that Red Bull was considering leaving Austria for Dubai. In the thread about the FIA considering a move, I felt there were rational reasons for the FIA to consider moving to UAE. Are there geopolitical, cultural considerations? I think so, but cynically when has there not been.

[Risil]

I think there are definitely geopolitical considerations, and also a major top-down push from Saudi, Qatar, UAE etc to position themselves as a corporate friendly neutral zone between Europe and Asia.

I don't know if it's that different to basing yourself in Switzerland, which confers similar protections against the workings of law and politics.

However in this specific instance, why would these executives leave in advance of a decision to move the FIA being taken? It doesn't seem that logical to me.

[Risil]

Mod note: I'd also like us to be careful about throwing around generalizations about what "Arabs" are like. It can be lazy and can end up going to some dark places.

Obviously this is a story about geopolitics and state power so you can't (and shouldn't) avoid talking about national origin and shifts of power from western Europe to Asia. But please stay with the specifics.

[ensign14]

It's not about "Arabs" as people, it's about governments in a region, and their deployment if patronage.  If you want dark places, then it's an adjunct in the battle of totalitarianism v democracy, and democracy is losing this one too.

 

However in this specific instance, why would these executives leave in advance of a decision to move the FIA being taken? It doesn't seem that logical to me

 

Because they oppose the direction and are being bullied out?
 

[Secretariat]

I think there are definitely geopolitical considerations, and also a major top-down push from Saudi, Qatar, UAE etc to position themselves as a corporate friendly neutral zone between Europe and Asia.

I don't know if it's that different to basing yourself in Switzerland, which confers similar protections against the workings of law and politics.

However in this specific instance, why would these executives leave in advance of a decision to move the FIA being taken? It doesn't seem that logical to me.

I guess this speaks to my cynicism. There has routinely been shifts of power centers throughout history. It depends on the individual lens, societal norms of the time and/or who's being adversely effected as to whether these shifts are positive or negative. Personally, there is some ambivalence I have towards these shifts.  

Edited by Secretariat, 19 May 2024 - 11:30.

[AlexS]

There is not enough information about FIA. 

[FLB]

There is not enough information about FIA. 

And that's the way they want it. The FIA has never been an organization known for its transparency. Even historians have issues having access to certain documents.

 

RIP CSI WCD 1950-1980 and long live FIA F1 WC 1981-present - Page 3 - The Nostalgia Forum - The Autosport Forums

[midgrid]

Two more departures: director of communications, Luke Skipper, and secretary general of mobility, Jacob Bangsgaard.

[FLB]

Two more departures: director of communications, Luke Skipper, and secretary general of mobility, Jacob Bangsgaard.

The departure of the Director of Communications is... not suprising, considering the FIA President keeps making controversial statements. The departure of the Secretary General of Mobility and Tourism is... intriguing.

Edited by FLB, 03 October 2024 - 13:50.

[Whatisvalis]

I see he's on the front page of Autosport singing woe is me.

[BRG]

I see he's on the front page of Autosport singing woe is me.

If the way he is treated on this forum is anything to go by, then he has a point.  Since he was elected, I have rarely seen a single positive comment about him here. 

[P123]

If the way he is treated on this forum is anything to go by, then he has a point.  Since he was elected, I have rarely seen a single positive comment about him here. 

 

Standard practice for an FIA president then....  Though aside from initially pushing back against the greed of the teams who were trying to make F1 a closed shop (he had plenty support on that), he appears to have fallen in line.  Not a lot of positives to take from his tenure so far.  A lot of trivial nonsense, and the FIA bleeding personnel. 

[RoryFormula1]

If the way he is treated on this forum is anything to go by, then he has a point. Since he was elected, I have rarely seen a single positive comment about him here.

Have you considered that it may instead have something to do with his consistent poor behavior and missteps? It’s not bias to call out how ridiculous it is for the FIA president to be drunk and the awards ceremony, claim to be a stickler for safety by pushing for the jewelry ban (while allowing for exclusions to the rule for some), injecting himself into penalty review, sexual assault allegations, opening an FIA investigation (and announcing it to the world) against Mercedes/Susie Wolff based on the statements of essentially a tabloid, etc. Nope gotta be bias because we all remember how loved Max Mosley was as a British FIA president. MBS is an absolute clown.

[BRG]

Have you considered that it may instead have something to do with his consistent poor behavior and missteps? It’s not bias to call out how ridiculous it is for the FIA president to be drunk and the awards ceremony, claim to be a stickler for safety by pushing for the jewelry ban (while allowing for exclusions to the rule for some), injecting himself into penalty review, sexual assault allegations, opening an FIA investigation (and announcing it to the world) against Mercedes/Susie Wolff based on the statements of essentially a tabloid, etc. Nope gotta be bias because we all remember how loved Max Mosley was as a British FIA president. MBS is an absolute clown.

And yet all that came AFTER he was being routinely trashed on this forum from the moment he was elected. 

[pup]

lol, that’s got to be the most pathetically bitter interview I’ve seen in F1.

For anyone who doesn’t want to bother reading the whole thing, he sums it up at the beginning:

…but let's talk about me.

[PayasYouRace]

If the way he is treated on this forum is anything to go by, then he has a point. Since he was elected, I have rarely seen a single positive comment about him here.

.

Ok. Make a positive comment about him. What’s he done that been good for the sport?

Anything would be appreciated because I can’t think of anything he’s done that’s worthy of praise.

[RoryFormula1]

And yet all that came AFTER he was being routinely trashed on this forum from the moment he was elected.

Is this forum the British media or a worldwide collection of people that enjoy talking about Motorsports? I’m American and can’t stand MBS. My disdain for him comes purely from his actions, not from the British media boogeyman.

[pup]

I don't remember Jean Todt needing to battle the press.  Mosley, on the other hand, did so regularly despite being quite British.  I also rarely see much difference in press coverage between the "British" press and any other nationality's, save for the expected fan coverage for national favorites.  

 

I think what made Todt fairly anonymous was that his tenure was fairly anonymous.  Mosley was controversial, therefore he often got bad press, even, if not especially, in his home country.  Same with MBS, though I wouldn't be surprised if he's well insulated from any criticism in the Saudi press.  

Edited by pup, 03 October 2024 - 15:00.

[midgrid]

.

Ok. Make a positive comment about him. What’s he done that been good for the sport?

Anything would be appreciated because I can’t think of anything he’s done that’s worthy of praise.

 

He's improved the financial situation of the FIA, although I'm not sure if that automatically translates to being good for the sport.  He may be good at running things behind the scenes and just prone to gaffes and interference in high-visibility matters, but the turnover in FIA staff is concerning.

 

I was in favour of his willingness to approve Andretti's entry in the face of opposition from Liberty and the existing teams, but that disagreement seems to have been settled against Andretti's favour, so it's no longer a positive point for me.

[GlenWatkins]

Secretary of General Mobility WTF?

I'd like to see that job description.

[pup]

Mobility is their catch all euphemism for everything that isn't sport.  It's weird, yes.  

[Sterzo]

Secretary of General Mobility WTF?

I'd like to see that job description.

I had to read that twice before I realised WTF wasn't part of the job title.

[F1matt]

.

Ok. Make a positive comment about him. What’s he done that been good for the sport?

Anything would be appreciated because I can’t think of anything he’s done that’s worthy of praise.

 

 

How do you define how the president is performing in his job? He has to deal with so many different parties it must be almost impossible to keep everyone happy, all no doubt with different agendas, and most of them are probably self-serving and don’t probably care about the other parties. Is his performance any different to the president of FIFA or UEFA, or the IOC? Maybe their job is almost impossible and managing to keep the status quo is a victory in itself.

[OvDrone]

Persecution, lies, witch hunt, the media. - Very 2024esque modern authoritarian excuses from dear leader MBS. 

 

If he'd be the leader of this forum, 90% of us would be banned in the first 3 months. 

[PayasYouRace]

How do you define how the president is performing in his job? He has to deal with so many different parties it must be almost impossible to keep everyone happy, all no doubt with different agendas, and most of them are probably self-serving and don’t probably care about the other parties. Is his performance any different to the president of FIFA or UEFA, or the IOC? Maybe their job is almost impossible and managing to keep the status quo is a victory in itself.

Is this a joke?

All I asked for were some tangible positives, specifically from those who are complaining that nobody has anything good to say. This isn’t something to define, t just requires examples.

For example, if we were talking about Max Mosley you could point to his excellent work in promoting motoring safety. Not only on the track but in his support of EuroNCAP standards for road vehicles.

Something like that is all I asked for. If you’re offended that nobody likes MBS, provide some evidence of the good he’s done. Some have said they’d have picked his backing if Andretti’s entry as a new team, if he hadn’t caved to FOM and team pressure. Just give us something to back up the view that he’s being unfairly criticised.

[BRG]

Is this forum the British media or a worldwide collection of people that enjoy talking about Motorsports? I’m American and can’t stand MBS. My disdain for him comes purely from his actions, not from the British media boogeyman.If the way he is treated on this forum is anything to go by, then he has a point.

My original comment was "If the way he is treated on this forum is anything to go by, then he has a point.".  This forum is not the "British media" although what constitutes that is a good question.  I was just making a point that he gets little but brickbats slung at him.

 

.Ok. Make a positive comment about him. What’s he done that been good for the sport?

Anything would be appreciated because I can’t think of anything he’s done that’s worthy of praise.

I don't keep a checklist but are you seriously suggest that he has done nothing positive during his tenure?  If so, then you surpass me in negativity - something incidentally that you harangued me about on several occasions in the past!

 

..., though I wouldn't be surprised if he's well insulated from any criticism in the Saudi press.  

And here we have a nice example of the ignorant and prejudiced comments that beset the president.  The assumption that he is Saudi Arabian when he actualy comes from a different country and one that is sometimes at odds with Saudi Arabia.  But never mind that, all Arabs are the same, aren't they?

[pdac]

Is this a joke?

All I asked for were some tangible positives, specifically from those who are complaining that nobody has anything good to say. This isn’t something to define, t just requires examples.

For example, if we were talking about Max Mosley you could point to his excellent work in promoting motoring safety. Not only on the track but in his support of EuroNCAP standards for road vehicles.

Something like that is all I asked for. If you’re offended that nobody likes MBS, provide some evidence of the good he’s done. Some have said they’d have picked his backing if Andretti’s entry as a new team, if he hadn’t caved to FOM and team pressure. Just give us something to back up the view that he’s being unfairly criticised.

 

I'm not sure whether this is fair or not. We don't really know what happened there. It could be that he was contractually obliged to consider FOM's position on the matter. Certainly, it caused a rift between the FIA and FOM which, it would appear, was resolved by him subsequently 'caving in'. But as for the Andretti entry, the situation is still unclear.

 

So, maybe the attempt to get Andretti on board may be a positive for him. But I would say he did that for personal reasons which, for me, would nullify it.

Edited by pdac, 04 October 2024 - 09:00.

[New Britain]

If the way he is treated on this forum is anything to go by, then he has a point.  Since he was elected, I have rarely seen a single positive comment about him here. 

That is true, but you will recall that MBS's first official action of substance was to orchestrate the FIA cover-up of what really happened in Abu Dhabi 2021 - not really a way to show that he would put principle above politics. 

[SCUDmissile]

They have always been a joke organisation

[PayasYouRace]

I don't keep a checklist but are you seriously suggest that he has done nothing positive during his tenure? If so, then you surpass me in negativity - something incidentally that you harangued me about on several occasions in the past!

This is exactly the answer I expected. A deflection. You don’t have any examples, so you must simply accuse others.

Please. I don’t need a checklist, just anything he’s done that’s a tangible positive. As you can see, I’m not being negative. I’m looking for a positive.

[Muppetmad]

Track limits are being handled significantly better this year. Although F1's race control is still wanting, it's still significantly better than during the Masi years. Those are the positives I can see during Ben Sulayem's tenure so far. How far Ben Sulayem should be personally credited for these is another matter.

Edited by Muppetmad, 04 October 2024 - 09:32.

[New Britain]

I'm not sure whether this is fair or not. We don't really know what happened there. It could be that he was contractually obliged to consider FOM's position on the matter. Certainly, it caused a rift between the FIA and FOM which, it would appear, was resolved by him subsequently 'caving in'. But as for the Andretti entry, the situation is still unclear.

 

So, maybe the attempt to get Andretti on board may be a positive for him. But I would say he did that for personal reasons which, for me, would nullify it.

There is no way that the FIA were 'contractually obliged to consider FOM's position' on Andretti's entry.

 

Any contractual obligation would flow from the 100-year lease of the Commercial Rights. The whole point of that deal was to create a Chinese Wall between FOM's financial interests and the FIA's sporting and public interests. It would have been a direct contradiction to require the FIA to consider FOM's wishes when they (the FIA) were applying their own regulatory (technical, safety, reputational, et al.) criteria to an application for entry.

If the contract has contained any such provision, the EU Commission would never have reached their settlement with the FIA. Also recall that, at the time of the deal, Bernie and Herr Mosley were still running it all and neither had any intention of leaving. They didn't need to put anything in writing, as they could conspire all they wanted behind the scenes.