66 replies to this topic

[Jim Thurman]

I don't know about US motorsports

Don't worry 1player, lack of knowledge rarely stops anyone on the internet from pontificating about it 

 

The early days of racing was dominated by wealthy sportsmen as drivers or owners (often fielding their chaffeurs as their racers). Then, for a period, entry level to racing was "affordable", where someone could build their own car, or get an old jalopy or stock car and go and race. The problem that everyone looking back with rose colored glasses overlooks is that even back then, it was never pure talent that advanced someone up the ladder. It always took a well-to-do benefactor, backer, sponsor or wealthy owner to advance. This gets completely forgotten by those going on about how much it has changed. So, it's completely different and yet all the same. The only real change is the expense at the lower levels. Someone can't go to a junkyard, find an old car, and with some mechanical ability and driving talent, be competitive at a local short track.

 

Jeff Gordon was mentioned. True, his stepfather wasn't monied, but resorted to questionable tactics far beyond "Formula pushy dad" to get his charge up the ladder. To the point of being an ethical nightmare. But, oh, thank goodness he wasn't a "ride buyer" 

Edited by Jim Thurman, 23 February 2024 - 23:57.

[Mario5]

I think the OP just doesn't know anything about William Byron.

[juicy sushi]

The OP never posted in this thread again, so perhaps the joke is on all of us who bothered to retort.

[Gravelngrass]

Would Haas be a pony then?

[ch103]

The OP never posted in this thread again, so perhaps the joke is on all of us who bothered to retort.

 

Not a joke, just haven't been sure what to say.  I regret the negative tone my initial post had, at the end of the day a lot people put hard work into winning the Daytona 500.  Regardless of what my thoughts are, Byron drove a great race and should be celebrated, no criticized like i did.

 

I think I may just have had a bad morning or may be old and now yell at clouds...

[BRG]

Someone can't go to a junkyard, find an old car, and with some mechanical ability and driving talent, be competitive at a local short track.

Actually, that is exactly what they do in short oval banger racing in the UK.  

 

[PassWind]

Righto this year I am going to enter an endurance racing category.

It’s based on a market price of $5,000 using an industry standard price guide.

If it meets that it’s in. You get 5 modification points to use on modifications allowed, it must meet some pretty basic safety standards but they are more than safe for the category.

You get a team of 4 together, you all get a basic racing license if you haven’t one. Get yourself the required personal safety equipment get the car to the track and get ready to race.

Format 18 hour enduro, day one 9 hours break for BBQ and social activities next day another 9 hours and go home tired but feeling very satisfied with Motorsport.

In reality it’s four mates having a hoon in a super cheap category raising money for cancer, motor racing is what you make of it, expecting it to be something you want will just end in frustration. The elite end will morph into whatever it will because money, you have to keep a brand fresh. There are only so many ways you can do that in NASCAR, their last effort of note street racing. Yeah a Kiwi ringer won it, so isn’t that a jockey story of note?

Or do I still have no clue what the OP meant? Being a horse sounds confusing ;)

[Nathan]

There is a series in America/Canada called the 24 hours of Lemons that operates like that.  It's super fun building cars for it.

 

I also raced 'banger' style as photographed above, never spent $1k on a base car and OE part rules leaves you looking for gold in the junkyards.  The funny thing is, I found many motorsports fans snub their noses at cheap racing, both as spectators and participants.  But few watch donkey races either.

[TMC44]

Actually, that is exactly what they do in short oval banger racing in the UK.  

 

Suicide Squad, Custard Creams and The Condoms. That photo brings back some good memories from the early 1990s at Arena Essex. Sadly now overgrown.

[Jim Thurman]

Actually, that is exactly what they do in short oval banger racing in the UK.  

 

I'm aware of that, and there are still these type of classes in the U.S., most notably the 4-cylinder Hornet division, which has gotten increasingly popular, but you can't do that in the top classes. It used to be that entry level racing itself was of a higher caliber and one could do it cheaply and succeed. Parnelli Jones started out in jalopies, and he was not alone. Several Indianapolis 500 racers did as well. Many in NASCAR in that era also had similar backgrounds. The odds of advancing from these series in the U.S. now is pretty much non-existent. No one is looking for another Parnelli Jones in the Hornets. Perhaps that's as much a change as anything.

 

How many banger drivers have gotten to top level national/international series, aside from perhaps a few in BTCC? I've heard of a few British short track racers making it there.

[Jim Thurman]

Along those lines, I also recall how many turned up their noses at Figure 8 racing (understandably in many ways). Yet it was great as entry level racing. Quite a few of the FIgure 8 racers at Ascot Park in Los Angeles moved up to higher level stock car series, even being very competitive in races on the road course at Riverside. There also were several African-American and Latino drivers that raced Figure 8's at Ascot Park, some quite successfully.

 

Also glad to see 24 Hours of Lemons mentioned. Is the similar Chump Car still around?

 

The greater point being, no one is scouting out these entry level series looking for talent to advance up the ladder.

[Nathan]

Yes, Chump Car too!  The guys I know moved away from it because they took the tinker fun out, but it still goes.

[BRG]

I'm aware of that, and there are still these type of classes in the U.S., most notably the 4-cylinder Hornet division, which has gotten increasingly popular, but you can't do that in the top classes. It used to be that entry level racing itself was of a higher caliber and one could do it cheaply and succeed. Parnelli Jones started out in jalopies, and he was not alone. Several Indianapolis 500 racers did as well. Many in NASCAR in that era also had similar backgrounds. The odds of advancing from these series in the U.S. now is pretty much non-existent. No one is looking for another Parnelli Jones in the Hornets. Perhaps that's as much a change as anything.

 

How many banger drivers have gotten to top level national/international series, aside from perhaps a few in BTCC? I've heard of a few British short track racers making it there.

The point was that, contrary to the OP moan that only rich folk could go racing, there are a lot of areas where you don't need a small fortune to get on track.  It may not lead to Indy, Le Mans or  F1 but not everyone has that ambition.  Too often, people generalise about racing after looking at F1, Indycars, NASCAR and one or two other series but overlook the huge pyramid of motorsport that supports those elite series.  

 

As for your second point, I think Martin Brundle and Derek Warwick both started on UK short ovals and reached F1 - maybe not bangers, but stock cars or hot rods, but these are still not million pound budget cars.

[Collombin]

Derek Warwick both started on UK short ovals and reached F1 - maybe not bangers, but stock cars or hot rods, but these are still not million pound budget cars.

That's how his upcoming autobiography is able to call him a double world champion.

[Sterzo]

We shouldn't forget the humble hire kart either. You can go racing for £50 a time, and while Helmut Marko isn't going to give you a call, you can (a) have terrific fun and (b) find out whether it's worth your while spending on a higher category.

[Jim Thurman]

The point was that, contrary to the OP moan that only rich folk could go racing, there are a lot of areas where you don't need a small fortune to get on track.  It may not lead to Indy, Le Mans or  F1 but not everyone has that ambition.  Too often, people generalise about racing after looking at F1, Indycars, NASCAR and one or two other series but overlook the huge pyramid of motorsport that supports those elite series.  

 

As for your second point, I think Martin Brundle and Derek Warwick both started on UK short ovals and reached F1 - maybe not bangers, but stock cars or hot rods, but these are still not million pound budget cars.

Concur that grassroots racing often gets overlooked. There is plenty of entry level racing in the U.S. as well. Many of which have been mentioned.

 

How about Brian Henton? I used to read that he'd run stock cars on short ovals.

[juicy sushi]

Yes, Chump Car too!  The guys I know moved away from it because they took the tinker fun out, but it still goes.

There were challenges with LeMons and Chump Car.  While it started as affordable racing of beaters, it became inadequately supervised SCCA Improved Touring as people tweaked things as far as they possibly could.