16 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

Try as I might, I can't find immediate reference to Nissan GTP car race number 85 competing in the April 28 Road Atlanta round of the 1991 IMSA GTP Championship.  

 

Chip Robinson finished 2nd in Nissan No 84 - Geoff Brabham's sister car No 83 went out with electrical problems - and a third team Nissan ran in practice as No 1, driven by Derek Daly, but is listed as a having non-started.  However, there are also numerous photos of an apparent fourth Nissan there, at least running in practice, bearing No 85.  Or did one of the above cars merely appear in different practice sessions with two different numbers applied?

 

Can anyone 'un-confuse' me, please?

 

DCN

[DCapps]

Hmmm...

 

Looking at the IMSA yearbook and then the race report in On Track, only 83 and 84 are mentioned...

[E1pix]

Absolute, total conjecture destined to fail miserably…

What if…

The 85 car was strictly a third car if one ever crashed, and used specifically here for a photo shoot, as it’s perhaps the most-photogenic US circuit to do so and oft used for that to this day… and either a Nissan executive or an Art Director said “Wouldn’t it photograph better for our purpose as car #1?”

Laugh, giggle, sneer… I can take it for up to 39 seconds. ;-)

Edit:
I do see that Nissan ran three cars at Daytona; numbers 83, 84, and 85. I have a vague recollection the third car only ran at Daytona and populated with Japanese drivers.

At Sebring, a third car practiced with the four primary drivers, as “#1,” and shown as a “T-car.” I surmise this is the third #85 car.

It’d be interesting to see if the team ever raced with the number 1 at all. The standard number was indeed 83, originating with the Team’s primary motivator (Team Manager, not sure his title) Don Devendorf, who started off building Datsun 1200s and B210s in the early 1970s in a Club class called “C Sedan.” The class was primarily Mini Coopers before Devendorf, and Don’s builds were so successful he nearly killed the class — or at least, BMC’s prior domination stopped right there.

Hence. the number 83 was sacred to Electramotive, and thus, Nissan.

https://www.racingsp...1991-03-16.html

Edited by E1pix, 05 March 2024 - 16:27.

[Doug Nye]

I just wonder who drove the car then - ostensibly during Atlanta practice...or at least, pre-race there?

 

 

Photo strictly copyright; The Revs Digital Library

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 05 March 2024 - 16:45.

[Henk Vasmel]

I have taken my database and the Lightning Speed book (by John Starkey, Writer2 of this parish, look at the Ferrari 375 thread).

i zoomed in on the IMSA Nissans in 1991, to see if I could make some sense of it all. And I think there is a step forward, even if it is not enough to reach the finish

First, there are several types of Nissans used over the year. In Daytona, there were (1), (83), (84) plus (85), DNA. (1) is called a R90C, the other 3 are R90CK.

The 3 Japanese drivers nominated for the (85) were: Masahiro Hasemi, Toshio Suzuki and Anders Olofsson. The latter I consider to be a Swede. (called Olof Andersom by Jan Lammers when they were rivals for the F3 title in 1978, but only the Dutch will understand that little joke [Andersom means the other way around]).

For the question if a (1) ever raced this year, yes, here, Mid-Ohio and Road America.

Sebring (1) as a T-car only is correct.

Then Road Atlanta. I have 4 entries there. 

(1) an NPT-90, DNS (Derek Daly)

(83) an NPT-91, 90/04, R:16 (retired)

(84) an NPT-91, 90/02, R: 2

And an unnumbered entry, which must surely be our (85). Type = GTP ZX-T. DNS, driven by Derek Daly and Bob Earl.

This type GTP ZX-T is mentioned before in Miami, where it is driven by Gary Brabham to 13th. Entered by John Shapiro as (24).

It is very well possible that these two cars are not the same ones, and are identical to NPT-90 or NPT-91

Edited by Henk Vasmel, 05 March 2024 - 19:32.

[MCS]

I was there, but don't remember number 85.  That said, Bob Earl usually practiced a third car, but didn't start the race, often bearing number 1 as I recall.   The Shapiro GTP ZX-T mentioned by Henk wasn't a team car and isn't an NPT-91 in any case.

 

I will check, as I am really curious about the number, but have to wonder if the picture was from a pre-meeting test session?

[E1pix]

Interesting stuff…

One thing I can add is Bob Earl’s long been known as an exceptional test driver. I worked with him a little when he drove the 1993 Brix Spice-Acura in Camel Lights that I did all the graphics on.

We stumbled into Bob at a Thunderhill (California) vintage race in 2016. His job there was testing the 1974 Niki Lauda Ferrari, as it was going to ship to the Monaco Historique a few days after. I think Emanuele Pirro was to drive it in the Province.

[MCS]

As you very well know, Eric, Bob Earl was a very accomplished race driver - he was a serial Formula Ford winner and beat several aces in Formula Atlantic, let alone his sportscar record.

 

I've tried enlarging Doug's pic and wonder if the driver is wearing sunglasses - if that is the case, it could be Earl.  It's the car number that's throwing me.

[E1pix]

Mark, Yep, Bob’s win at the SCCA Runoffs in FF split my late friend’s wins in the class.

Bob indeed wore eyeglasses in the cockpit, in the day at least, but I don’t think that’s his helmet. It is curiously similar, though… but it appears there’s some green (or a reflection, perhaps) near the right chin. Overall, his had more white in the center — and from the front almost looked like bug eyes, so to speak.

It does make perfect sense he’d test a third car, to either try different setups, or to have it ready in the event it was needed after a pre-race incident. But I don’t think that’s him in the photo.

Edit:
Found this… from the very era we’re discussing:
https://arteauto.com...j-racing-helmet

Edit 2:
Doug, I sent you a PM.

Edited by E1pix, 05 March 2024 - 21:55.

[MCS]

For what it is worth, I think it’s probably Chip Robinson at the wheel - who also wore sunglasses occasionally - and had a bluey/green helmet as I recall.  Daly wasn't at the meeting as far as I know - I was there all weekend.

 

So again, possibly pre-meeting testing? 

 

That was the meeting where TWR / Bud Light introduced their Jaguar XJR16 of course and they had been testing during the week, ahead of the meeting.

[E1pix]

Thanks Again, Mark, and all who’ve helped.

I spoke with Bob about all this on Tuesday, he himself is now curious and checking his own references whenever time allows that. For history, luckily he’s a fan of that, and accuracy — and is a great guy besides.

The number 1 vs. number 85 remains the most-curious part…

Hoping to solve this, whatever we can do to help Doug is good by me.

[Gerr]

The  "5" on the right hand side and nose of the car pictured looks added on or over another numeral. The car also has the red windshield surround like #84 had. #83 had a white surround. 

 

The last four pics on this page.....

 

https://pbase.com/mwphoto/91atlanta

 

may...show...

 

#1 on the RH door and #84 on the nose.

#1 on the LH door and #1 on the nose.

#85 on the nose.

#85 on the nose and the LH door. More noticeable here how the "5" looks added on/over.

 

B+W photos, but the w/s surround is dark, not white. So... #84 is #1 and maybe #85 as well...why?

 

[Henk Vasmel]

The  "5" on the right hand side and nose of the car pictured looks added on or over another numeral. The car also has the red windshield surround like #84 had. #83 had a white surround. 

 

The last four pics on this page.....

 

https://pbase.com/mwphoto/91atlanta

 

may...show...

 

#1 on the RH door and #84 on the nose.

#1 on the LH door and #1 on the nose.

#85 on the nose.

#85 on the nose and the LH door. More noticeable here how the "5" looks added on/over.

 

B+W photos, but the w/s surround is dark, not white. So... #84 is #1 and maybe #85 as well...why?

I don't see another number under the 5, but zooming in showed that the 8 has red contour lines on the outer and inner edges, while the 5 is plain white. That suggests that they were not applied at the same time. And they aren't properly aligned as well.

[JacnGille]

I was there, but don't remember number 85.

I was also there, but I don't remember either.

[Doug Nye]

Thanks for all your efforts...  Tricky one, isn't it.  Utterly unimportant within life's great panorama, of course - but tricky.  

 

DCN

[bradbury west]

Just as a long shot, perhaps contacting Derek  Daly on FB  might throw some light on the matter. All these older racers seem to have very good recall.

Roger Lund

[MCS]

I have found the Race Programme.  It's 70 pages and a terrific read all these years on, but still no sign of the mystery number 85.

 

The IMSA GTP/Lights Entry List has the usual three Nissan NPT-91s listed as numbers 1, 83 and 84 and each is entered for

 

Geoff Brabham / Lantana, FL

Chip Robinson / Oldwick, NJ

Derek Daly / Noblesville, NJ

Bob Earl / Purcellville, VA

 

As we know, Earl usually practiced number 1 (but didn't race) and Brabham had 83 and Robinson 84.