130 replies to this topic

[Disgrace]

Yep, seems like the worst kept secret in the paddock at the moment.

Announcement should be made in Austin

 

Now reported in the FT.

 

Any deal, however, is likely to face regulatory scrutiny. Private equity firm CVC Capital Partners once owned both F1 and MotoGP but was forced to sell the motorcycle series in 2006 as a condition of buying F1 after EU competition regulators raised concerns. CVC sold F1 to Liberty in 2017 in a deal worth $8bn.

 

James Killick, competition lawyer at White & Case, said that the history of F1 and MotoGP and the size of a potential combined group made competition probes “quite likely”, both in countries such as the UK and Germany, and at an EU-wide level. “I’d be very surprised if competition regulators didn’t look at it”, he said. “The question is, has the market changed?”

[Victor]

Let's hope this is only speculation...

[FullThrottleF1]

Liberty is gonna reduce the grid lol. Cant have those pesky bikes clogging up the race track!

[JHSingo]

Oh ffs.

 

A few years ago, I'd have been all for this. Dorna has been woefully inept at marketing and promoting MotoGP. But lately, Liberty's direction for F1 has been terrible. Street circuit overload, preventing new entrants, and utter cringe-fests race events. 

 

Surely there's got to be some anti-competition laws that prevent the same company from owning the two biggest global motorsport series? That doesn't seem right. 

[Risil]

As Disgrace's article mentioned, the EU forced CVC to sell MotoGP when it acquired F1 in 2006. I'm not sure whether the underlying facts have changed (F1 and MotoGP are still the major motor racing world championships) and I don't think the law has. So on the face of it it's hard to see how this would be approved.

[Chubby_Deuce]

Apparently it was either Liberty, Qatar or UFC. Talking about a **** on **** sandwich.

I do hope that the regulators see this for what it is, which is a monopoly on top level racing that’ll harm tracks and fans alike.

[Afterburner]

I wonder if this means Liberty aren't looking as closely at IndyCar as has been claimed.

[krapmeister]

I wonder if this means Liberty aren't looking as closely at IndyCar as has been claimed.

Or maybe they did but they finally took heed Roger's unwillingness to sell...

[ARTGP]

More bargaining power for Liberty/FOM in circuit negotiations and TV deals when they can swing the weight of both F1 and MotoGP around. 

Edited by ARTGP, 27 March 2024 - 22:17.

[Deeq]

More bargaining power for Liberty/FOM in circuit negotiations and TV deals when they can swing the weight of both F1 and MotoGP around.

Hence why this didnt fly last time nor should it this time either. They will simply have too much power visavis all even against FiA & FiM.
They will acquire a status of "too big to fail erm regulate"

Edited by Deeq, 27 March 2024 - 22:33.

[JHSingo]

As Disgrace's article mentioned, the EU forced CVC to sell MotoGP when it acquired F1 in 2006. I'm not sure whether the underlying facts have changed (F1 and MotoGP are still the major motor racing world championships) and I don't think the law has. So on the face of it it's hard to see how this would be approved.

 

In which case, I assume it will be more likely that Liberty decides to retain F1 and drops the MotoGP plans, rather than feeling like they've done enough with F1 and wanting to take on a new project with MotoGP?

 

I wonder if this means Liberty aren't looking as closely at IndyCar as has been claimed.

 

I thought Liberty being interested in IndyCar was debunked as a work of fiction not long after that story first emerged?

 

Apparently it was either Liberty, Qatar or UFC. Talking about a **** on **** sandwich.

 

Good grief. It's a worrying time for sports when these are the calibre of prospective buyers. 

[Afterburner]

I thought Liberty being interested in IndyCar was debunked as a work of fiction not long after that story first emerged?

If I recall correctly, it was reported that some of the teams suggested off the record they’d be happy with such a scenario prior to their meeting with Penske last month. I don’t recall such an interest by Liberty ever being recorded on the record but I imagine if the teams brought it up then some interest had to have existed.

[pdac]

I wonder if this means Liberty aren't looking as closely at IndyCar as has been claimed.

 

Or maybe that's next.

[Fastcake]

As Disgrace's article mentioned, the EU forced CVC to sell MotoGP when it acquired F1 in 2006. I'm not sure whether the underlying facts have changed (F1 and MotoGP are still the major motor racing world championships) and I don't think the law has. So on the face of it it's hard to see how this would be approved.

My very first thought when I read the topic was "wasn't this a big thing near 20 years ago?". Hard to see the European Union competition commissioner changing their opinion on consolidation in the motorsport sector, particularly with F1 being even more dominant than it was in 2006.

[EvilPhil II]

At the same time that Saudi wants to buy F1? No smoke without fire. 

[loki]

Buy it, spin it public with different management.  It doesn’t necessarily have to be under the FWON ticker.  You could also have someone else buy it, for example a soveriegn wealth fund, take it public and sell them a ton of the voting stock.  Plenty of ways to avoid EU anti trust concerns.

[ARTGP]

My very first thought when I read the topic was "wasn't this a big thing near 20 years ago?". Hard to see the European Union competition commissioner changing their opinion on consolidation in the motorsport sector, particularly with F1 being even more dominant than it was in 2006.

 

At the same time, why would they even bother unless they thought it would be different this time? 

[Lennat]

YES, we can get Rihanna and Tom Cruise to hang out in the paddock, and the riders can ride fake police bikes to the podium ceremony!


Seriously though, I really hope this isn't true (but it probably is).

[Anja]

The news is all over big motorsport websites today, looks like it's really happening. 

[Viryfan]

At the same time, why would they even bother unless they thought it would be different this time?

Well if Liberty has a buyer for F1 it makes sense.

[Marklar]

Liberty will likely sell F1 soon-ish since you want to sell while it gets you profit.

Tbh, not sure why there is such a outrage about them buying MotoGP beyond that, they already are doing the same stupid gimmicks as F1 anyway.

[Chick0]

Goodbye to the MotoGp grid girls!       

[FLB]

Liberty will likely sell F1 soon-ish since you want to sell while it gets you profit.
 

That's what I think, too. There's money to be made in growth; sustaining it requires spending money.

Edited by FLB, 29 March 2024 - 00:41.

[William Hunt]

Moto GP is so well run now, Liberty may ruin it and they are only after the money anyway

[Nathan]

And what is Dorna Sports -  owned by a private equity group and a pension fund - in it for?

[AncientLurker]

Another step closer to the death of motor sport. At this point I almost wish for Saudi to buy F1 and for it to fail and die miserably.

[Chubby_Deuce]

And what is Dorna Sports - owned by a private equity group and a pension fund - in it for?

Fair point!

There’s certainly a different feel from Dorna, as a MotoGP fan and someone that followed F1 through the Ecclestone and Liberty era. The Ezpeleta family has the Ecclestone-Esau’s vibe to them, where yes sometimes the decisions are **** and make you feel like you’re watching a two bit operation bumble it’s way through things but at least it feels like they have skin in the game. All beholden to their shareholders of course but also insulating the sport from even worse decisions by the money guys.

That layer doesn’t exist if Liberty buys in and they’ll be gone before the problems that they create blow up.

[Disgrace]

Moto GP is so well run now, Liberty may ruin it and they are only after the money anyway

 

Not sure that's necessarily true either. If that was the case, the bikes wouldn't be covered in wings for a start.

[SenorSjon]

MotoGP was ruined for me when they started the sprint nonsense. I also don't like the current aero, ride height and TC mess and the inability for teams to catch up due to restrictive rules.

I do like Moto 2/3 though.

[JHSingo]

Moto GP is so well run now

 

Is it? 

 

To me, it feels like MotoGP has been left behind a bit in recent years. Once upon a time, in the early 2010s, they had a far better social media presence than F1. But even now, they still don't even upload official race highlights to the YouTube channel, and most the website content you can only access if you create an account/subscribe. 

 

It's well known that MotoGP's been in a bit of trouble in terms of declining TV figures and race attendances. The latter seems to have been reversed slightly by the introduction sprint races, but the gulf between F1 and MotoGP in terms of popularity is still enormous. 

 

And yeah, the manufacturers seem to be very much in charge of setting the rules - and they've now gone down this stupid route of wanting to introduce F1 aero to bike racing, with all the problems that causes in terms of rider safety and worse racing. 

 

If this was still 2019 or 2020, I'd be all for Liberty coming in and giving MotoGP a much needed boost and refining/improving what is already there. I still do believe that Liberty has done good for F1 - particularly in those first few years after they took over from Bernie. But more latterly, they seem to have little regard for the sport's history or the wishes of the fans - and only care about making as much money as possible, regardless of the damage it is otherwise doing to the sport. So, god only knows what right royal mess they'd manage to make of MotoGP...

Edited by JHSingo, 29 March 2024 - 12:38.

[JHSingo]

MotoGP was ruined for me when they started the sprint nonsense. I also don't like the current aero, ride height and TC mess and the inability for teams to catch up due to restrictive rules.

I do like Moto 2/3 though.

 

Disagree with this. For me, this is one of the things MotoGP gets right - its concession system has allowed the likes of Aprilia and KTM to go from back row fodder to credible and genuinely competitive entrants in the space of not many years. 

 

Honda and Yamaha's current travails are more a result of those manufacturers own development errors in recent seasons, rather than an inherent problem with the sport. But, no doubt if they're bad enough for long enough, they'll soon be able to catch up again as has happened before.

[Kulturen]

I'm not saying I'm not skeptical about liberty or that it doesn't make sense from a legal perspective to block this move but...for me F1 and MotoGP are not two directly competing products. I don't see a competition "problem" with them having the same owner.

 

Motosport is quite niche relative to the major sports and needs all the product it can get so there's no problem here (general costs involved  are). F1 and MotoGP (and even wsbk) would all benefit from joining forces and promoting together.  

[Sterzo]

I'm not saying I'm not skeptical about liberty or that it doesn't make sense from a legal perspective to block this move but...for me F1 and MotoGP are not two directly competing products. I don't see a competition "problem" with them having the same owner.

 

Motosport is quite niche relative to the major sports and needs all the product it can get so there's no problem here (general costs involved  are). F1 and MotoGP (and even wsbk) would all benefit from joining forces and promoting together.  

Motor sport has been flourishing since the eighteen nineties. For most of that time nobody talked about it as "product" or in other marketing terms. Viewing it as a money-spinner probably isn't going to change, but let's not pretend it has to be that way. Yes, it's expensive as sports go, and yes there's always been a commercial element, but being promoted and saleable is not an essential component.

Edited by Sterzo, 29 March 2024 - 14:18.

[Kulturen]

By "product" I don't mean commercial product, I mean entertainment product. In that sense you don't have an oversaturated market. I am into motorsports in general but I have never been a romantic gearhead. Personally I love motorsport and racing as a form of entertainment and would like to ensure I get as much high quality of it as I can.

 

PS. Also considering where technology is heading I really don't see that romanticism flourishing much longer. 

[aportinga]

Or maybe they did but they finally took heed Roger's unwillingness to sell...

 

It's a waiting game.

[NotAPineapple]

Another step closer to the death of motor sport. At this point I almost wish for Saudi to buy F1 and for it to fail and die miserably.

By death do you mean record growth, popularity and profitable team ownership?

[ARTGP]

Motorsport isn't "dying" except in the eyes of the longtime fans who it is no longer designed to cater to. The audience that it is being catered to is just the mainstream. What's profitable now is whatever is good for TikTok and Netflix. 

Edited by ARTGP, 30 March 2024 - 17:46.

[DW46]

In a post Rossi era I do feel that MotoGP is less of a talking point in the UK. I still see the odd yellow 46 on the back of a car or bike but no one watches it or mentions it in passing in my circles.

If they do take it on, hopefully they don’t alter its DNA as they did with F1. Still love F1 but little tweaks like points for sprints being the title decider last year and the increased toxicity between fans that used to have healthy rivalries have taken the shine off it a bit.

[FLB]

Sky UK is saying it's going to be formally announced this week, perhaps as early as tomorrow: Formula One-owner Liberty to unveil £3.5bn takeover of MotoGP | Business News | Sky News

Edited by FLB, 31 March 2024 - 15:44.

[ehagar]

Motorsport isn't "dying" except in the eyes of the longtime fans who it is no longer designed to cater to. The audience that it is being catered to is just the mainstream. What's profitable now is whatever is good for TikTok and Netflix. 

 

Is it though? I would argue most Motorsport categories can't access the mainstream except for F1.... In bikes there really isn't much money in it anymore, especially down the ladder in the national series which used to be much more funded. They are struggling for an audience and sponsorship and there may not be the interest anymore. 

[krapmeister]

£3.5 billion seems an awfully high price for MotoGP?

[krapmeister]

Announced...

https://www.motogp.c...f-motogp/493938

[thegamer23]

Bit weird to announce it on April Fool's day tho 

[Stephane]

Now they will have to explain why this is ok while it was not 15 years ago when CVC had to sell Dorna in order to buy SLEC

[FLB]

Now they will have to explain why this is ok while it was not 15 years ago when CVC had to sell Dorna in order to buy SLEC

Different environment. The FIA has two more world championships that did not exist 15 years ago (the FIA WEC and Formula E). Also, with social media and various streaming platforms, there are more options for all racing series to promote themselves.

Edited by FLB, 01 April 2024 - 11:15.

[ConsiderAndGo]

RIP MotoGp

[FLB]

RIP MotoGp

Well, they *already* have Sprint Races, so...

[Ruusperi]

So, any F1 weekends in the future where MotoGP will be the supporting series? COTA? Qatar? Suzuka?

[Stephane]

So, any F1 weekends in the future where MotoGP will be the supporting series? COTA? Qatar? Suzuka?

And reduce their revenue ? Won't happen

[thegamer23]

So, any F1 weekends in the future where MotoGP will be the supporting series? COTA? Qatar? Suzuka?

Why would MotoGP be a support serie to F1?

Also, MotoGP would become the most interesting race of that weekend, so it wouldn't be smart from F1 side.